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The Doom and Gloom begins

Per the reporters on twitter:

Trent Williams will play this weekend.

Jordan Reed is practicing in full pads today. This is the first time in full pads in a long time.

Desean Jackson will sit out the rest of the preseason. He is expected to be ready for week 1.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
Kelly to me has ignored one of the key issues in building a winning team, ie finding players that are talented and durable, capable of playing 16 games a season.

Sam Bradford, DeMarco Murray, Kiko Alonso, etc. some of his key pickups are guys that have had major injury problems that may very well limit what they are capable of doing going forward.
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This is totally where I am. There are a lot of very talented players in this league but if they are injured they don't do anyone any good. How much good has Bradford done the Rams? Murray had one great year but I can tell you he frustrated Dallas fans and coaches with the injuries the previous 2-3 years. Why do you think Dallas decided it was better to let him go?

fansince62 said:
there is scheme...and then there is how it is applied. Kelley is a lot things...one thing is obvious: that dude is a smart mofo. the complaint vis Kelley that we saw last season was that he burns his players out way fast. that and gripes about loyalty to the players.

kelley may well fail...but one thing has me LMAO: our former pro QB, pro offensive coordinator? fell on his arse first time up to bat. Kelley....with zip NFL experience...immediately succeeded. and that was after a horrendous iggles season w/WestCoast Andy in charge who has never won the ultimate goal in the NFL.
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It could be argued that he stepped into the head job of the most talented team in the weakest division of the NFL in a season where that division played other weak divisions. Did he succeed? Yeah. Was he playing with a stacked deck? Just a bit.
 
McCloughan may see a down year in 2015 and the exposure of both Griffin and Gruden as an opportunity to complete the housecleaning.

Assuming Griffin is not the answer, the Redskins are going to need to position themselves for 2016 to select a passer or two in the draft.

Another year in that 5-11 range would yield that top 10 pick to come up with a starter.

Even if we use a top 10 pick somewhere else and bank on a second or third round pick to be the eventual starter at qb, I don't think anyone would argue we need another draft of picking high in all the rounds to bring this team back to a competitive level.

The team with McCloughan as GM is also going to be a lot more appealing to coaching candidates to replace Gruden than the group the team was looking at in 2014 after Shanahan departed.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
McCloughan may see a down year in 2015 and the exposure of both Griffin and Gruden as an opportunity to complete the housecleaning.

Assuming Griffin is not the answer, the Redskins are going to need to position themselves for 2016 to select a passer or two in the draft.

Another year in that 5-11 range would yield that top 10 pick to come up with a starter.

Even if we use a top 10 pick somewhere else and bank on a second or third round pick to be the eventual starter at qb, I don't think anyone would argue we need another draft of picking high in all the rounds to bring this team back to a competitive level.

The team with McCloughan as GM is also going to be a lot more appealing to coaching candidates to replace Gruden than the group the team was looking at in 2014 after Shanahan departed.
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Or could Callahan take over and that was McCloughan's plan all along?
 
Neophyte said:
This is totally where I am. There are a lot of very talented players in this league but if they are injured they don't do anyone any good. How much good has Bradford done the Rams? Murray had one great year but I can tell you he frustrated Dallas fans and coaches with the injuries the previous 2-3 years. Why do you think Dallas decided it was better to let him go?



It could be argued that he stepped into the head job of the most talented team in the weakest division of the NFL in a season where that division played other weak divisions. Did he succeed? Yeah. Was he playing with a stacked deck? Just a bit.
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plausible. that said...I'm more inclined to think that he outsmarted the other coaches. he did not inherit a good defense - Reid left a horrendous secondary. more talent? based on what measure? just as easy to argue that since the division was weak overall - as you note - the margins were pretty thin in terms of advantage and that coaching was the deciding differentiator.

anywho....hoping his coaching smarts is undone by his lack of GM skills.
 
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If he Shits the bed he's got bigger issues than coaching.
 
Om said:
Of course it's been torturous. No Redskins fan feels differently about our recent history.

Where we part seems to be that your position continues to be that Snyder is not making progress and never will. What it doesn't seem you are willing to concede is that, however slowly the change has come, Snyder has been backing away from football decisions, and trying to get legit football people to run the shop. Or that bringing in a legitimate General Manager for the first time in his tenure is a not a seminal, monumental shift.
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I agree with most of your assessments about RG3 and the Snyder is making the appearance of taking less of a role in the daily operations of the team on the field, however I have to ask...do you believe the decision to keep Bob in the starting role is solely on Gruden?
 
If I may, Brother El.

Yes, the decision is Gruden's alone. Whether he uses his authority, or not, is completely on him.

The man has a guaranteed contract. If he doesn't do it his way, he has no one to blame but himself.

Nobody in the football world would hold it against him if he got fired for not allowing this owner to dictate football decisions.
He'd have another job in no time. While getting paid handsomely for having a sack, and being man enough to use it.
 
El,

Here's the answer I gave to that question earlier in the thread ... not particularly well articulated, but generally what I think happened.

I think Bob was slated to be the starter this year because the organization needed to find out if the man could learn to play QB in the NFL. Personally, I think Jay probably would rather start Cousins or McCoy--guys who can at least operate competently today within the structure of a basic NFL passing offense--but understands that the organization invested so heavily in Bob that to NOT take one more chance, healthy and in his second year in the system, would be a mistake. Bob has a legit NFL arm, and even with the injuries presents enough of a running threat to make NOT giving him this offseason, camp and preseason, to see if he can take the next step toward becoming an NFL QB, was not a smart organizational decision.

One can disagree with that decision, but not assume that means it was forced upon the football people by a "meddling owner." Who was in the room making that decision? We don't know for certain, but it's fair to assume it included Snyder, Allen, McCloughan and Gruden. And no one here has any idea how that discussion went, or how the ultimate decision was made to head into camp saying publicly that Bob was the guy. But given the investment in the kid, and the raw physical potential, it was and remains a defensible decision to have made, regardless of who made it.

Some apparently are convinced it was Snyder and/or Allen forcing the decision down Gruden's (and presumably McLoughan's) throats, and that that signifies nothing has changed. I won't try to disabuse anyone of that because we simply don't know. It MIGHT be true. Or it might not. I choose not to pretend I have knowledge I don't, and am a very curious and interested bystander watching how it all plays out.
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there is another possibility: even accepting that Griffin appears to be an unsalvageable project......McCoy and Cousins are never going to be better than 6-8 win kinda QBs. Griffin's talents hold the promise of a much loftier high end. the theory goes: if he could learn the pocket skills he never had to master in HS and college......the return to investment is much, much higher than the other two mediocrities. personally, I find that argument more convincing.

in the end....it was up to griffin to master the pocket skills. to this point...he hasn't done so. management's hand is gonna be forced sooner rather than later. eventually we'll get the reconstruction that allocates responsibility for yet another QB failure among all the players involved. I certainly hope that by the time that moment arrives.....Gruden is long gone.
 
I believe with a top 10 defense, and that doesn't mean statistically, and an average, to above average special teams, that we can win 10+ games with either Kirk, or Colt.

Now, I don't believe either could handle the pressure Robert's been subjected to. On, and off the field. It also goes a long way to explaining how much more "comfortable", or "relaxed" they've looked so far. They have ZERO pressure on them. Zero, zilch, nada.

But you are right fansince, the ceiling potential for Robert, compared to the other two, is like the Empire State Building, verses a rancher with a half basement.
 
I keep hearing about this ceiling...why? The idea that a QB with a certain skill set, who has never been asked to be a "pocket QB", can suddenly develop the skill of feeling the pressure in the pocket to be able to react in a split second to dump the ball to the open receiver. There are only a handful of people in the world who do it successfully. It's an instinct.

Pocket awareness is the question and that is not something that can be taught...like I said, it's an instinct and very few possess the skill.

RG3 succeeded in a read-option where there was really only one read to make...hand off or drop back and throw to an open receiver. Read-option hid his inability to feel the pressure, because it minimized any pressure, and gave him the time to hit the open receiver...and Shanahans, with all their faults, created the perfect scheme for him. That scheme will no longer work in the NFL the way it worked for Robert, especially because of the rule change. he needs time, time he won't ever have in a 3-5 step drop system. Unless he has the best OL in the world in front of him, he won't be able to succeed. Now, he has to become something entirely different than anything he's ever been before, possess the instinct to sit in the pocket with pressure bearing down around him and make the proper reads, instead of taking off at the first hint of pressure, that's his instinct. That's a tall order and he has proven, time and time again, he does not have that instinct.

Ceiling? His rookie season was his ceiling, the past 3 seasons have proven as much.
 
I'm coming back a little late to this run of posts, but the best part of this, tr1, is that all I really said there essentially, was that it's still preseason so I'm not buying into the idea that ANY team is either fantastic or terrible at this point. I'm excited for the Redskins, because I've been excited for them each of the last, um.....45+ seasons. That's what a loyal fan does.

Will Gruden pan out? Will Scot build a good team? Will ANY of the players on the squad today get to the pro bowl or will they all just end up on the street? To quote: "how long before success surrounds us? How many more head coaches, qbs and dramas?"

F**k if I know.

My point - to be succinct - is that it'll be a bumpy, but fun, ride. Haven't seen a season yet that wasn't.


tr1 said:
Okay, I'll play.

So, how long before success surrounds us? How many more head coaches, qbs and dramas?

Right now, I'd ask what facet of the game for our team has improved since Allen took over or Gruden began coaching? I haven't seen any improvement, but I'm more than willing to listen to anyone who has seen improvement.

We have new bodies on defense, and that certainly has to be an improvement over last year, but other than that, we're still talking about poor o-line play and a questionable secondary.
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Elephant said:
I keep hearing about this ceiling...why? The idea that a QB with a certain skill set, who has never been asked to be a "pocket QB", can suddenly develop the skill of feeling the pressure in the pocket to be able to react in a split second to dump the ball to the open receiver. There are only a handful of people in the world who do it successfully. It's an instinct.

Pocket awareness is the question and that is not something that can be taught...like I said, it's an instinct and very few possess the skill.

he has proven, time and time again, he does not have that instinct.

Ceiling? His rookie season was his ceiling, the past 3 seasons have proven as much.
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Bingo. You got it right. Robert's ceiling has already been exceeded. Let's take Jason Campbell as an example. I always said that Campbell peaked after year 1. But nobody would listen, all I heard was new offensive coordinator and playbook. Year after year the same excuse, but really, his progress could not continue under any coach because....he had peaked after year 1. Robert has peaked I'm afraid. I don't see this mythical upside the RGIII lovers keep alluding to.
 
micks113 said:
Bingo. You got it right. Robert's ceiling has already been exceeded. Let's take Jason Campbell as an example. I always said that Campbell peaked after year 1. But nobody would listen, all I heard was new offensive coordinator and playbook. Year after year the same excuse, but really, his progress could not continue under any coach because....he had peaked after year 1. Robert has peaked I'm afraid. I don't see this mythical upside the RGIII lovers keep alluding to.
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I think a lot of those people just felt badly for Simple Jason on a personal level, for whatever reason. No one feels badly for Robert.

Nick
 
I don't subscribe to the theory Bob cannot become a better pocket passer. I doubt he'll ever develop particularly fluid or instinctive movement in the pocket, but I do hold out the possibility that by mastering pre-snap skills at the line, to help identify where pressure is coming from, and then what adjustments to make, both at the line and once the ball is snapped, he can incorporate that into a game that also allows him to take advantage of his running threat. He may have lost a step, but he's still fully capable of threatening a defense with his legs. Competence in the mental game, coupled with a live arm and running threat, can definitely be considered an intriguing ceiling.

To me it's a question of how long the team is willing to give him to show he either can or cannot demonstrate clear progress in that direction.
 
since this is the doom and gloom thread I'll post it here.

Redskins fear Galette has torn achilles and is out for the season.
 
MikeSr619 said:
since this is the doom and gloom thread I'll post it here.

Redskins fear Galette has torn achilles and is out for the season.
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god &&&& it. that's horrible news. no disrespect....you just tubed my day brotha Mike.
 
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