The Doom and Gloom begins

tr1 said:

Not to imply disrespect, but has anyone noticed that Philly will likely be a jaugernaut this year? Kelly has completely remade his roster from 2013 (a playoff team) and has assembled a group that has bought into his football philosophy. I'm predicting they win the division if their players stay healthy. They're likely to win the NFC, too.

Forget quarterback, it's scheme that matters (see Redskins 2012). It took teams over half a season to figure out Kyle's new offense. It was injury that doomed it.

Sorry to present a contrary view to the narrative. QB is important, but scheme can overcome a guy's deficiencies, play to his strengths and make him look incredible.

I'd humbly suggest that our decisions on coaches and talent hasn't melded. Be it stubborness, mediocrity or short sightedness, our franchise can't think out of the box. It certainly couldn't attract a talent like Kelly or Fangio. Our franchise tends to hire personnel who are mediocre or have personal flaws.

Maybe it will all work out well, though.

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none taken! don't forget: gotta have players to execute the scheme. Kelley didn't shred his roster cuz it made him feel good. he's looking for specific kinds of players.

DieselPwr44 said:

Redskins= Lucy

Fans= Charlie Brown

For the past 20 yrs, whenever the fans thought they were finally going to "kick the ball", Lucy's pulls it away and we wind up flat on our back again.

So it's no surprise at all that fans would head down the doom and gloom path after the way things started off in preseason game 2.

With Scotty on board, Lucy's soon to be relieved of holder duty.

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*amn straight!

it'll take some patience to get there........so we abused band of brothers and sisters must be ready, yet again, to "wait it out"

I don't know if a team whose scheme 'fits' Riley Cooper but doesn't fit Jeremy Maclin is one that is destined to win much in the NFL.

there is scheme...and then there is how it is applied. Kelley is a lot things...one thing is obvious: that dude is a smart mofo. the complaint vis Kelley that we saw last season was that he burns his players out way fast. that and gripes about loyalty to the players.

kelley may well fail...but one thing has me LMAO: our former pro QB, pro offensive coordinator? fell on his arse first time up to bat. Kelley....with zip NFL experience...immediately succeeded. and that was after a horrendous iggles season w/WestCoast Andy in charge who has never won the ultimate goal in the NFL.

To start, it's only been two (2) PRE-SEASON games so far. McL is gonna need more than just one (1) offseason to fix this mess. He's gotten a good start - so good, in fact, that most of us have probably (just from the gust of fresh air of it) raised our expectations to an unreasonable level for this season. But, the truth is, it'll probably take another year or even two to get us built all the way around.

I'm not too down on our team yet...nor too up on other teams - such as the Eagles. Again, it's only been a couple pre-season games so far and I don't take too much stock in the pre-season W-L records. The Eagles looking like a Juggernaut so far doesn't mean they'll be able to maintain that going into the season. And, for what it's worth, with all the bloody mess WE are, we're still 2-0. Not gonna put too much into that, no way.

I'm looking forward to seeing more of the people we've not yet seen. Crowder, Garcon and Desean out there at once...and then Breeland, Gillette and Kerrigan on the field together. Even looking forward to seeing Scherff, Moses and Williams in at the same time. Hoping like mad we'll keep all four top RB's. Morris, Jones, Thompson and Williams makes me smile.

For now, I'm just watching things play out and looking to see who steps up. It's gonna be a fun season, gang. Hold on for dear life!!

Lol. Never change, brother.

tr1....seems like this is not a road to happiness for you. why stick it out?

Maybe Scot is the answer, we'll see

tr1 said:

I'm not unhappy. I'm frustrated.

I'm frustrated I can't talk to my friends about my favorite football team without their mocking me. And, there's no rebuttal except to point to events over two decades ago.

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Try saying something new. Or different.

We're Cleveland. We're Buffalo. We're the Raiders.

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No, we're the Redskins. Cleveland, Buffalo, or the Raiders don't matter.

I'm not asking anyone to be anything but objective.

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Seems more like you wish everyone shared your dismal outlook. That your frustration lies with the inability to convert positive thinkers into negative ones. Negative thinkers choose to focus on the negative. Only, and always. Positive thinkers spend more time focusing on the possibilities, of the positive. It doesn't mean we don't see the bad. You think you're the only one who has your concerns about certain things. That you're somehow enlightened to something no one else has thought of. You're not. You're no more real, or objective, than anyone. You just choose to be Patrick Swayze singing "Henry the Eight I Am", in an effort to be recognized as the only person with sight, in a room full of the blind.

When we win, I'll be on the bandwagon.

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Mercy. What fan base does that sound like?

But, don't question my football knowledge by suggesting that this franchise is anything but bad.

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You mean, the way you question the knowledge of anyone who doesn't agree with your, opinions?

But, pretending we're anything but bad is being as horrible a fan as me being objective.

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The only person I see pretending anything is you. You pretend to know everything. And that it's all bad. You pretend to see things no one else does.

You pretend to be objective.

tr1 said:

I'm not unhappy. I'm frustrated.

I'm frustrated I can't talk to my friends about my favorite football team without their mocking me. And, there's no rebuttal except to point to events over two decades ago.

We're Cleveland. We're Buffalo. We're the Raiders.

I'm not asking anyone to be anything but objective. When we win, I'll be on the bandwagon. But, don't question my football knowledge by suggesting that this franchise is anything but bad.

But, pretending we're anything but bad is being as horrible a fan as me being objective.

To each his own.

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got it.

just a thought: when one walks...he/she can look forward or backward. it's a conscious decision.

additionally....you are making a huge assumption: that the past is prologue. kinda preordains your outlook regardless of the facts/change in front of you. not questioning your knowledge. questioning your mindset. anywho....good luck with that! I can see how it would be frustrating.

tr1, I think I can sum up your position pretty succinctly. Correct me if I'm wrong.

"We've sucked a long time. We suck now. We are probably going to suck forever. I can't believe I'm the only one who sees this. For the record, though, if we ever stop sucking, I'll be our biggest cheerleader."

That about cover it?

The question I would ask tr1 is if you really expect anything to be significantly fixed in a season or two? It sounds like you do. My expectations are going to remain low for awhile - as we've only had a single McCloughan led draft. I know you want to tie McCloughan and the potential for success to the 20 preceding years but that's honestly not fair or reasonable unless you really believe the stank of Snyder has is doomed for all time no matter who is 'runnin tings'. - and if you believe that, there's really no point in rooting for the team as Snyder isn't going anywhere. I expect steady if painfully slow improvement over years not a single offseason.


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I still have next to n o confidence in this head coach Boone. So I believe we will be making a change there as well (and probably QB the way things are going), and it will mean even MORE painfully slow change. I DO have a lot of confidence in this new GM though. His record screams volumes about success to me.

tr1 said:

(I won't even address Ax's)

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Eh, that wasn't even my best fastball. But it still looked untouchable, huh?

Of course, it doesn't approach the one Om threw down the heart of the plate.

tr1 said:

Om, I know you feel pretty much like I do. The franchise's predicament must be torturing you, as well.

The fundamental problem is our inability to draw competent talent given the history of our ownership and his inability to stop meddling.

That, unfortunately, is unlikely to change.

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Of course it's been torturous. No Redskins fan feels differently about our recent history.

Where we part seems to be that your position continues to be that Snyder is not making progress and never will. What it doesn't seem you are willing to concede is that, however slowly the change has come, Snyder has been backing away from football decisions, and trying to get legit football people to run the shop. Or that bringing in a legitimate General Manager for the first time in his tenure is a not a seminal, monumental shift.

None of this guarantees success this year. Or even, perhaps, next year. It may take another head coach. It almost certainly is going to take another QB. But to continue to flatly state that nothing has changed for the better puts you solidly outside the very objectivity you so doggedly claim to practice.

Om said:

Of course it's been torturous. No Redskins fan feels differently about our recent history.

Where we part seems to be that your position continues to be that Snyder is not making progress and never will. What it doesn't seem you are willing to concede is that, however slowly the change has come, Snyder has been backing away from football decisions, and trying to get legit football people to run the shop. Or that bringing in a legitimate General Manager for the first time in his tenure is a not a seminal, monumental shift.

None of this guarantees success this year. Or even, perhaps, next year. It may take another head coach. It almost certainly is going to take another QB. But to continue to flatly state that nothing has changed for the better puts you solidly outside the very objectivity you so doggedly claim to practice.

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I think the feeling can easily be that Scot is one more shiny new bauble that Dan is distracting us with. Goddammit I want Scot to work and work gloriously well. But Danny's track record of shiny new things is not great. We've tried the Offensive genius (Norv), the Hard Ass retread (Schotty), the college superstar/offensive genius (Spurrier), the Legend (Gibbs), the young up and comer (Zorn), the Established Super Bowl Winner (Shanny) and now the up and comer again (Gruden) to varying degress of failure (Gibbs being the exception - and further proof of why he should be considered the greatest coach in NFL history). Into that mix of suck, add in the myriad number of QBs, coordinators and free agents that have come in and stunk up the joint, as well as the various GMs we've tried (Vinny, Bruce and now Scot) and I'm sure you can understand why people are... hesitant to put faith in the Redskins until progress is seen.

When Bruce came on board, maybe we were all shell shocked after Vinny, but we were told he was a REAL NFL GM. An honest to God talent evaluator who could also manage the cap duties. That didn't work. At all. And yet, Bruce got a promotion? Someday, someone will have to explain that to me. If I fail at my job, I'm pretty sure I won't get promoted.

So now all our hopes rest on Scot. And he has a tremendous track record that makes me smile and gives me hope when I think about it. But I cannot begrudge Tr1 or anyone else for rolling their eyes and saying "Show Me". Hell, I think Boone wrote a blog about that not long ago. At this point, historical precedent says that Scot will fail; I hope to God he doesn't, but I certainly understand those who are looking at this with a healthy dose of skepticism. It is too early to proclaim Scot a failure, but some of his moves are up for debate.

tr1,

I think Bob was slated to be the starter this year because the organization needed to find out if the man could learn to play QB in the NFL. Personally, I think Jay probably would rather start Cousins or McCoy--guys who can at least operate competently today within the structure of a basic NFL passing offense--but understands that the organization invested so heavily in Bob that to NOT take one more chance, healthy and in his second year in the system, would be a mistake. Bob has a legit NFL arm, and even with the injuries presents enough of a running threat to make NOT giving him this offseason, camp and preseason, to see if he can take the next step toward becoming an NFL QB, was not a smart organizational decision.

One can disagree with that decision, but not assume that means it was forced upon the football people by a "meddling owner." Who was in the room making that decision? We don't know for certain, but it's fair to assume it included Snyder, Allen, McCloughan and Gruden. And no one here has any idea how that discussion went, or how the ultimate decision was made to head into camp saying publicly that Bob was the guy. But given the investment in the kid, and the raw physical potential, it was and remains a defensible decision to have made, regardless of who made it.

Some apparently are convinced it was Snyder and/or Allen forcing the decision down Gruden's (and presumably McLoughan's) throats, and that that signifies nothing has changed. I won't try to disabuse anyone of that because we simply don't know. It MIGHT be true. Or it might not. I choose not to pretend I have knowledge I don't, and am a very curious and interested bystander watching how it all plays out.

I'm not going to revisit the hiring of McLoughan again. We've done that so many times since January--we could just as easily go back and pull the multiple threads and cut and paste.

So I'll just say this. No, we do not KNOW how his tenure as GM of the Washington Redskins will play out. We do know that there IS a GM of the Washington Redskins. I remember when the prevailing narrative used to be, "if and when Snyder ever hires a real GM, we'll know he's finally figured it out." I also remember the universal, glowing reviews about the new GM from every quarter of the NFL world when he was hired. And I understand that he hasn't stopped being that guy simply because a few fans on a message board and media guys paid to voice opinions opine that his first overall pick was a bit of a reach at #5.

CT,

See above.

I have no idea how Scot will do long term here. I'm hopeful that his being here at all signifies a sea change in Dan Snyder's organizational approach, and I'm hopeful that all the aforementioned glowing reviews about his eye for talent mean that he'll bring that to bear for the Redskins and help us get this thing finally, mercifully turned around.

Beyond that? I'm hoping Bob doesn't get killed Saturday night, and I'm hoping that we win more than four games this year on the way to starting on the road back to relevance.

Yea I don't hold any crystal ball either but we FINALLY have a god talent evaluator here so my confidence in the future (if not the near future ie this season) is reasonably strong there. I can't agree that Scherff was even a reach, it's certainly way too early to tell what his ceiling is but with the Giants poised to take him 3 picks later it wasn't a reach. He was clearly the best lineman and we needed O line so much desperately worse than we did D line (especially when you consider the FA acquisitions there). So it was a bit of a need pick but to me it was the Best O lineman available so it fit into BPA as well.

MikeSr619 said:

My reaction to a troll site that posts as many memes as articles is this.

Relax, breathe. We ain't been good for 20 years and you've been here. Hang out, have a beer, try the fish.

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ROLFLMAO!!!

Dear god I needed this today, Mike. Thank you! I'm going to chuckle about this all day.

Im gonna give it at least 6 regular season games before even beginning to write off the season.

It's crazy I know but suffering from premature evaluation can be a serious disorder.