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Opine on the picks

Not worried about missing on Williams.
If we play his team, Scherff will pancake his ass anyway, proving he was the better pick.
And he'll also pancake any player in the NFL who plays like Williams
 
Om said:
I do.

For one, I'm pretty sure his and any other GM's definition of BPA goes to the full range of specifics as it relates to his particular team, and how said player fits into the team's plans now and going forward.

And two, if he really did have Williams rated higher than Scherff, big Len would be a Redskins today and we'd be looking for OL help today and tomorrow. The alternative makes no sense. I guess I just can't understand why anyone would think a GM---ANY GM---would intentionally bypass a player he had rated as higher for another he rated lower. It goes against common sense.

Doesn't it?

One can disagree with his assessment of which is the BPA for his team, but that's a different conversation. One that requires one to assume a better grasp of the criteria than McCloughan has.
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Om, I can totally see how McLovin' could bypass Williams for Sherff. Try this scenario...

On the eve of Free Agency the Skins look at their draft board and do an internal mock to try to figure out which one of the highest rated guys will be there. Williams is at the top of their board and in every scenario he and his guys can come up with there is no way Williams drops to #5. Zero. So the team makes a decision that Scherff is their guy and they need to focus on the DL in Free Agency.

Now look at all the DL moves we have made. Good moves and smart financially but it's still a lot of money and effort, and while DL looks good now our OL looks just like it did in December. But that is fine because Scherff is out guy, right?

Now draft day rolls around and we get to #5 and who is there....Williams. Excellent right? Except that we have already seriously upgraded out DL and done nothing with our OL, and Scherff is our guy.

Trade down? Sure, except that we are pretty sure that Scherff is the Giants guy too and they pick just 4 slots back meaning we have to make a deal with either the Jets, Bears and Falcons, none of whom are dying for Williams.

This leaves McLovin' gritting his teeth and taking Scherff even though Williams was considered the better player by a bit.

I don't have a huge issue with it either even though I'm a bit in love with Williams. I like the BPA idea in principle but at this point in the Skins lives I think I favor a "BPA at position of need" more than straight BPA. That means the Skins should have done exactly what they did...draft OL, and probably RT.
 
I'm pretty pleased overall, we need him, and we stole him before the Giants got him too. Double positive. I love love love the way he completes all plays from the highlights I saw
 
what will make this a great pick is if our free agent Dlinemen play well and williams doesn't, if they stink it up, it wont be pretty. I am pretty glad we went Oline and frankly if we go Oline the rest of the way Ill be happy too. (I wouldnt cry if we took landon collins btw) it would help our secondary out big time and maybe we wont have an embarrassment for a defence anymore
 
Om said:
Heard on Mike & Mike this morning that Scheffter apparently reported that our draft board went Fowler, Cooper, Scherff.

Anyone have anything on that?
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I mentioned this last night in the chat. It's true via the many reports on twitter yesterday evening. So yes, we had him rated third overall. If it came down to one of the three, Fowler was the choice. Cooper would've been the choice over the Sheriff. I think it worked out really well for us.
 
Certainly possible, Neo.

As is the possibility that Scot looked at Williams sitting there and said ...

"Damn, told you--no one else is falling over themselves to grab this dude. Mock drafters? Ha. Wipers of other people's bottoms (except that BB guy--he's cool).

Stillllll ... if I did grab the freaky-haired hipster I could field a DL with Hatcher, Knighton, Paea, Ricky ... I'm thinkin' we'd dominate that side of the ball some weeks. But shit; I really do dig this mauling mother-****er outta Iowa. Total badass. Changes the OL culture the minute he suits up. Plus we start to compete on THAT side of the ball in 2015.

Yeah, Len's nice. But this is Washington. I'm gettin' me some Hog. Hand me that card."
:usa:
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
what will make this a great pick is if our free agent Dlinemen play well and williams doesn't, if they stink it up, it wont be pretty. I am pretty glad we went Oline and frankly if we go Oline the rest of the way Ill be happy too. (I wouldnt cry if we took landon collins btw) it would help our secondary out big time and maybe we wont have an embarrassment for a defence anymore
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Do not want Landon Collins. I get that he was a fan of Sean Taylor and all, but isn't the biggest knock on him his pass coverage? That would project him as a SS--not a FS.

We might do better trying to find a FS to replace Goldson in another year or two.
 
Om said:
The Williams thing is certainly interesting. Couple thoughts ...

1. Not only did we pass on him, so did Tennessee, Jacksonville and Oakland.

2. When he fell to us at 5, no team felt strongly enough about Williams to offer a worthwhile trade.

Can't help but wonder ... if he was truly seen by the football people who make their livings identifying talent as the next AJ Watt or Reggie White, would either of those things have happened?
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of those 4 teams...3 drafted need IMO: tb, tn and oakland. their picks make total sense. as for Jax, Fowler is gonna be a great player. the issue with trading, IMO, was less from folks trading up than from folks willing to trade down...from everything I have read it was generally accepted that there are somewhere between 10 and 14 "surefire" first round talents in this draft. so the barrier got to be how far a team would be willing to drop before placing itself out of the running for this limited group and what the compensation was gonna be to account for the drop in projected talent.

I would have been happier had we picked Williams. but...sometimes...methodical coupled to patience can produce better long-term outcomes.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
I mentioned this last night in the chat. It's true via the many reports on twitter yesterday evening. So yes, we had him rated third overall. If it came down to one of the three, Fowler was the choice. Cooper would've been the choice over the Sheriff. I think it worked out really well for us.
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just a wild guess....I bet the breakout was that Williams had more talent and long-run potential...but we know McL has stated he'll take a guy with less talent who is totally about football every waking moment. and definitely Scherff seems to be one of those kinda guys.

what's weird is that Scherff stated he was surprised because his only contact with the team was a combine interview. other than that...nada.
 
fansince62 said:
just a wild guess....I bet the breakout was that Williams had more talent and long-run potential...but we know McL has stated he'll take a guy with less talent who is totally about football every waking moment. and definitely Scherff seems to be one of those kinda guys.
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Fits nicely into the checklist of criteria a professional evaluator might use when assigning BPA grades.
 
Om said:
Fits nicely into the checklist of criteria a professional evaluator might use when assigning BPA grades.
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guess we won't know for another 5 to 10 years. if Williams is a perennial all-Pro and Scherff is a great run blocker with average pass blocking skills...then the logic changes.

OBE at this point. the choice has been made.....let's get the rest of the o-line upgraded and move on.
 
Of course, we could also look back and see the new Scherff in town going to his 4th Pro Bowl, and Leonard Williams running a barber shop. :D

Unfortunately, when assigning grades, a professional GM doesn't have the luxury of peering back in time 5 years to see how it worked out.
 
Om said:
Of course, we could also look back and see the new Scherff in town going to his 4th Pro Bowl, and Leonard Williams running a barber shop. :D

Unfortunately, when assigning grades, a professional GM doesn't have the luxury of peering back in time 5 years to see how it worked out.
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that's true. and there are lots of professional GMs who employ different schemes who have been successful. :)

as posted....I think Williams would have been the better pick. the selection has been made...we got someone who fits the strategic plan (presumably)...so things are headed in the right direction. not losing any sleep over this pick. way too early in the resurrection process to go high and right on anything.

press onward Redskin soldiers!!!
 
McD5 said:
Do not want Landon Collins. I get that he was a fan of Sean Taylor and all, but isn't the biggest knock on him his pass coverage? That would project him as a SS--not a FS.

We might do better trying to find a FS to replace Goldson in another year or two.
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we need a strong safety now, so its a solid pick, we dont run a 2 deep zone so his coverage is not as big a concern to me.
 
I liked Williams leading up to the draft, although he seems to have been dropped down on some teams boards right before Thursday night for some reason. Recall a couple of months ago, there was the thought he could go #2, #3 or #4.

Instead of thinking about what might have been missed in not selecting Williams, why not consider that Scherff could end up being a pro bowler and a vocal team leader. We all know the Redskins don't have enough of those.

And for all the 'experts' that say he has issues in protection, I can't remember many OL that came into the NFL that were polished and ready from Day 1.

That's why teams employ guys like Bill Callahan.

Even great tackles in franchise history like Jacoby and Samuels had their share of growing pains.
 
BT...that can be said about every player at every position. it's not a discriminator. not messin with ya....just drawing out the logic of the problem.

here's what I think is key in all of this - the decision process. you and others are correct to point out that...ex ante....the process is shrouded in uncertainty....so a lot of subjective criteria mix in with the quantitative knowns.

I really think this decision wasn't based on BPA but need triggered by some quality threshold. it's all good. listening to the guy one can't help but like what is rolling our way.
 
I suppose I remember back to the Bobby Beathard drafts in the 1980's and the fact you could never anticipate exactly who he was going to select.

In 1980, when the Redskins had their first round pick again after a generation of trading it away, my father and I were sitting there with our jaws hitting our knees when Beathard selected Art Monk out of Syracuse, a wide receiver.

We were hoping the team was going to select a monster defensive lineman, a dominating running back or the next great cornerback.

Wide receiver? Neither one of us had even heard of Art Monk.

After a few years of this, you just learned to roll with it, knowing in the end it was all good :D
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
we need a strong safety now, so its a solid pick, we dont run a 2 deep zone so his coverage is not as big a concern to me.
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We just signed a relatively young SS from Seattle, and have several backups on the roster. We only have one FS, who is older and still a question mark. We have no one behind him--literally no one behind him.
 
Jeron Johnson is his name and he played both behind Kam and Earl Thomas at times. They both have HUGE praise for the kid and he is hungry.
 
Goaldeje said:
That highlight video makes me feel tingly all over.
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He's one bad ass white boy.... plays nasty.

McD5 said:
Is he an incredible guard, or is he really a RT?

The majority of draft reports project him as a guard, noting weaknesses in pass blocking.

And if he is a guard, then who will be our RT? Compton or Moses?

Live 2015 NFL Draft Grades - WalterFootball.com
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Put him at right guard, and it helps mask the RT problem, and instantly makes that side much better then before......

riggins44 said:
We won't really know if we made a good choice until 2-4 years from now.
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After watching some of his highlights, I get the impression we're gonna know very fast.


I love the pick. I was shocked by it, and wouldn't have had a problem with Williams, but it's really the better move for the team. Don't know who shit themselves first over the pick, Griffin or Morris. I don't even care where he plays... RG, RT.... I'm easy. He's a big nasty bastage, and will make a difference no matter where hi is on the line. We need that far more then some more beef up front on D.
 
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