Redskins Draft Brandon Scherff With Fifth Overall Pick

fansince62 said:

fair enough. bear in mind that Scherff had injury problems in multiple seasons while at Iowa.

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Injury problems he played right through, worth noting....

fansince62 said:

hmmmm.....I think this draft confirms what many have been saying all along: the poor play by the QBs on this team is attributable in a major way to crappy o-line talent. crappy enough that it forced the team to spend a pick on a position and player who is not the franchise kinda athlete one uses for a number 5 pick in the entire draft - a slection that passes by arguably the best talent in the draft for a team that has limited long-run talent on defense. to me this outcome simply symbolizes just how absolutely disgusting roster management on this team has been for years. Is the Scherff pick a good one? Sure. Is it how you want to spend the 5th pick in the draft? Not in my book. This was a need driven and QB driven selection IMO. It's what a mathematician would call a local optimum.

anywho......done. over with. time to move on and see how the new parts work into the mix.

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This ignores the rumor (pretty well established at this point) that McLovin had Scherff listed #3 on his board behind Fowler and Cooper. I think part of the problem is how you guys are defining BPA. The key word is 'player'. It's not Best Athlete Available. Scherff is inarguably the best player at his position. I don't think BPA means you take the guy with the fastest 40 time or most impressive highlight reel. An OL is never going to have those qualities. But I think it's possible in a given year, that an OL is the BPA. And I think it's possible, in fact, very likely that according to reports Scherff was the BPA on McLovin's list. That's not a need pick (although we did need him). When people say a pick like that is a 'reach' (setting aside that everyone has a right to an opinion and to nitpick), all that really means is 'my opinion of his talent is different than yours'. I also think we rely too much on 'conventional wisdom'. Just because ESPN and Walterfootball say Williams was the best player in this draft, doesn't make it so. I think Scherff will make us all ecstatic we brought him in over the coming years. We need to hope some of the later picks are surprises - that's where this draft will have succeeded or failed.

I am a bit amused when critics say that taking the Outland Trophy winner to play RT at #5 is considered a bad move

The fact the Giants said they were going to take Scherff at #9 meant that Washington had to take Scherff at #5 or risk losing him.

A trade with Cleveland (#12) or Philly (#20) would not have netted the team a high enough pick to select one of the top players on their board.

Evidently, the Redskins were hoping the Falcons were going to try and move up from #8 to select either Fowler or Williams but in the end they passed and that was about it for trading down.

Bulldog's Twin said:

I am a bit amused when critics say that taking the Outland Trophy winner to play RT at #5 is considered a bad move

The fact the Giants said they were going to take Scherff at #9 meant that Washington had to take Scherff at #5 or risk losing him.

A trade with Cleveland (#12) or Philly (#20) would not have netted the team a high enough pick to select one of the top players on their board.

Evidently, the Redskins were hoping the Falcons were going to try and move up from #8 to select either Fowler or Williams but in the end they passed and that was about it for trading down.

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Yeah, I think that's silly too. Most media guys aren't any more informed about the draft than any number of folks here (no offense to the fine draftnicks on the board). They base their opinion on other people's opinions, which can make you look like an ass sometimes. It's almost understandable in some ways because of the amount of work that would have to go into having a valuable opinion about 300 or so odd college prospects. Who has time for that if it isn't your job? Even the 32 people who are doing that for a living make mistakes all the time.

That's why I don't place any value in draft grades that pop up before any of these guys have even suited up. In a year nobody will remember it anyway. It'll be sport talk fodder for a week or so and then it'll be on to something else.

Boone said:

Injury problems he played right through, worth noting....

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that's true. but plenty injuries just the same.

Boone said:

This ignores the rumor (pretty well established at this point) that McLovin had Scherff listed #3 on his board behind Fowler and Cooper. I think part of the problem is how you guys are defining BPA. The key word is 'player'. It's not Best Athlete Available. Scherff is inarguably the best player at his position. I don't think BPA means you take the guy with the fastest 40 time or most impressive highlight reel. An OL is never going to have those qualities. But I think it's possible in a given year, that an OL is the BPA. And I think it's possible, in fact, very likely that according to reports Scherff was the BPA on McLovin's list. That's not a need pick (although we did need him). When people say a pick like that is a 'reach' (setting aside that everyone has a right to an opinion and to nitpick), all that really means is 'my opinion of his talent is different than yours'. I also think we rely too much on 'conventional wisdom'. Just because ESPN and Walterfootball say Williams was the best player in this draft, doesn't make it so. I think Scherff will make us all ecstatic we brought him in over the coming years. We need to hope some of the later picks are surprises - that's where this draft will have succeeded or failed.

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not at all brotha: I knew someone was going to question along the lines of how McL measured best available. that is why I seeded one response with the note about the mix of qualitative versus quantitative criteria. everyone is free to think as they chose. I think we got a very good player. I think we let a better one slip by because we were ultimately scaling things based on need. I think our defense has improved....but not enough....and it is obviously an interim fix while we wait to draft younger and better. we'll see how Scherff does against the better OLBs & DEs in the league pass blocking.

what can I say? yes...best player at his position - which might mean very little in a draft where the class at that position isn't spectacular. my read on the class of OTs - where we are playing Scherff - is that there were no sure fire stars but good depth. we got a good guy - no one I see on this board is saying we didn't. some of us believe we passed up on a future star - something to think about on a team that has a d-line with one strong player aging, another on a one year deal, one who is above average and one who is nothing special (cut by his last team)....and a bonafide. there every play pass rush threat in Kerrigan.

we're getting the o-line fixed. I'm down with that. It's what's needed to make our QBs more competitive and the running game more physical. doesn't mean I can't think we passed up a better move.

It is somewhat suspicious that if he was the best prospect available and didn't have any injuries concerns, how Leonard Williams could fall all the way to #6 without anyone wanting to trade up for him, starting with pick #3.

Everyone knew that Winston and Mariota were likely to garner the most attention, but Williams was perhaps #3 after these two in the weeks leading up to the draft.

Now, they may not be geniuses but the Jags and Raiders both passed on Williams. The other 10-15 teams that SHOULD have been interested in trading up for him mysteriously let him fall to the Jets with no protest.

McCloughan loves drafting linemen that have good size and come from national programs. So, for him not to press the button on Williams seems a bit strange, again unless there are concerns we don't know about.

1) The choice wasn't McL's alone. Gruden and others were part of the process.

2) The team is looking at potentially large investment in Griffin.

3) The team knows that questionable QB performance in the past several years was driven ni part by poor o-line play - especially pass pro on the right side and up the middle.

4) Per previous, Fowler is an outstanding player. How he placed out against Williams - I don't know. Heck, I was leaning to Fowler over Williams. In either case, that's irrelevant to a Scherff versus Williams choice. Oakland drafted a future star who fit perfectly with a need for their young QB. Let's all hope burning the number 5 pick in the draft on a RT pays big dividends!

Not gonna argue arcane points about what Best Player Available means. What I see is a pick that had to be driven by need. which is fine.

So hopefully by the end of camp it looks something like...

Williams......Lauvao.....Licht/Spencer.....Long......Scherff

Kouandjio pushing for one of the G spots!

fansince62 said:

1) The choice wasn't McL's alone. Gruden and others were part of the process.

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The final decision was Mr McGloo's. But, as is the case with every team, the coaching staff and scouts are heavily involved in the process, leading up to that decision.

2) The team is looking at potentially large investment in Griffin.

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So too, the #5 pick. And?

3) The team knows that questionable QB performance in the past several years was driven ni part by poor o-line play - especially pass pro on the right side and up the middle.

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Even Raymond ****ing Babbit knows that. Although, statistically speaking...

4) Per previous, Fowler is an outstanding player. How he placed out against Williams - I don't know. Heck, I was leaning to Fowler over Williams. In either case, that's irrelevant to a Scherff versus Williams choice. Oakland drafted a future star who fit perfectly with a need for their young QB. Let's all hope burning the number 5 pick in the draft on a RT pays big dividends!

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What was it about Fowler, after a couple years you scouting him, and the personal interviews you conducted with him at the combine, and after, that made you rate him higher than Williams?

Oh, you didn't scout him? Or interview him? Damn! You're not a professional scout? Sorry, my bad.

Well, I assume you had to have scouted Scherff. Watched his whole college career. Interviewed him. Then compared his report to one you have on Williams, based on the same personal scouting and interview process you used on Scherff, to determine that Williams is the next Reggie White, while Scherff is just a guy.

No? You mean you're basing your opinion, on the opinions of sports writers? The same sport writers that most agree don't know shit from Shinola?

Not trying to single you out my brother. Just using your post, which echos the biggest complaint about the pick (Williams is clearly better. Scherff wasn't BPA on MY board) to point out the absurdity, IMHO, of that argument.

Not gonna argue arcane points about what Best Player Available means. What I see is a pick that had to be driven by need. which is fine.

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Good. Cause you'd lose the argument, Bucko!

I know we all hope that, at worst, Scherff is the second coming of Jon Jansen. At best, Jacoby/Lachey.

I also eagerly await the avalanche of "I told you so's" after any Williams sack. Or any sack Scherff gives up.
And if Scherff ever gives up a sack to Williams, the internetz will melt.

Hail To Our Redskins!!!

too funny!

so recurring themes the assembled masses like to resort to:

- "you scouted him?" ...like the scouts or the other experienced pros at BGO who do not appear averse to passing player judgments

- "you know as much as the professionals?" ...like me cuz I know Scherff is the bomb and Williams is gonna tube

- "we don't know what they're thinking" ...except me, of course. here's the thought process. your thoughts don't count.

- "leave it to the professionals" ...like me

- "it's all a crap shoot so all ex ante preparations are equally unlikely to produce good results" ...nooooo. wait! what great results one day after the fact! these professionals really are the pros from Dover and have it wired! just the same....next year why not just place all 224+ names on a wall, blindfold ourselves, and throw darts? seems to me that's a lot cheaper way to get at the same results! and we have a ready out! consistency - thy name is fan!

- "none of us have any idea what they're thinking"...but here's my opinion cuz, unlike you, my intuitions and sources are better!

buuuuuuuuuuuuuut

- "can't wait for the I told you so and so sucks"...cuz I know he will!

- "well...all the reports say..." ...what I read makes me, unlike you, informed!

- "look at this highly edited highlight reel...it's awesome" ...proof positive!

- "well this is what McL said"....so unlike you...I do know what they are thinking....and my take is no kidding awesomely accurate! cuz McL reaches directly to me while he and the FO hide their true thoughts from everyone else!!! shhhh....in true Axian Voltaire: I have a pipeline to God! or is it Pangloss?

- "you don't know what their definition of BPA is. we have a rumor from one person that Scherff ranked third ahead of Williams. so we do! he had to be the BPA because he was ranked thus on the board according to one rumor. besides...we all love circular reasoning!!!"

dude....you all are doing the same ka ka. who do you think you are kidding?

from a social scientist pov....I find the rancor much more interesting. I haven't trashed Scherff one iota. I use the same sources you all have employed and kept track of the footnotes.

I fully agree Ax: in this day and age we should all be dumb rear quarters sitting on the sidelines and not thinking independently. it's so much easier! what matters are the "vibes". just sit back and "let it happen." that, afterall, seems to be working out with spectacular results in all venues of life at the moment! and the self acclaimed adults in the crowd? they get to exercise self-control and un-emotional, thoughtful responses that are based solidly in fact and their own special avenues to information access! what the heck....let's all find a virtual rubber stamp and not bother discussing anything!

ok. this was the greatest pick ever! still scratching my head over why Scherff wasn't picked by Tampa Bay!

fansince62 said:

ok. this was the greatest pick ever! still scratching my head over why Scherff wasn't picked by Tampa Bay!

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See! I knew you'd see it my way. The correct way. The Ax way. The ONLY way.

And, so will Tampa.

You know...just when I'm gearing to open up with a full 16 inch broadside...you always crack me up!

Ax...I know two things now:

1) If I see you crossing the street...I won't run you over.

2) You are worth your weight in gold! love ya bub! (in a manly way, of course)

This should remove excuses for RG3. If he can't get it done with a retooled OLine, it makes it easier to move on from him if need be.

Personally, I suspect he will come out and play better. Not to the level of 2012, but better nonetheless. I suspect having time to plant, view and throw will help improve his accuracy. I still think it will be a difficult decision when it comes to resigning him, because I don't expect lights out play. What I think we may be seeing is Scot acknowledging that Griffin may never become Manning or Luck, capable of carrying a mediocre team deep into the playoffs. Instead, he will work on putting a big, strong supporting cast around Girff and hope to raise his level of play that way.

I'm not making the Trent Dilfer, Game Manager argument. Just saying maybe Griffin belongs in the Dalton/Ryan category moreso than Rogers/Brees. And Scot is trying to help him there.

I'd also like to see Moses get his butt into these conversations. No one's even mentioning him, maybe rightfully so but there's still an outside chance he recovers well and steps up to be a contributor. One can hope anyhow, Lavauo doesn't exactly instill confidence. He had a few turnstile moments of his own last year.