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What would it take for you to question faith in Scot McCloughan?

McD5 said:
Weren't both of those Shanahan decisions? A guy who won a few SBs?
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Same point I just made. If you can name something Scot has done as a track record to prove your point it's valid. We can name 1000 good signings and great moves he's made.
 
MikeSr619 said:
Same point I just made. If you can name something Scot has done as a track record to prove your point it's valid. We can name 1000 good signings and great moves he's made.
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I used that as an example to show that even SB winning GMs make bad decisions. I'm not even sure why you mentioned Vinny.

I love Scot. He's also bombed a few drafts. He also lost 2 jobs to a drinking problem. He makes mistakes. We all do.

This is a big gamble. He's risking $16 million and our entire 2016 season betting that RG3 is healthy at the end of this year.
 
McD5 said:
I used that as an example to show that even SB winning GMs make bad decisions. I'm not even sure why you mentioned Vinny.

I love Scot. He's also bombed a few drafts. He also lost 2 jobs to a drinking problem. He makes mistakes. We all do.

This is a big gamble. He's risking $16 million and our entire 2016 season betting that RG3 is healthy at the end of this year.
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Bombed a few drafts? Do you have examples? All of your examples against him have been by using what other people have done.

You love him so much you question what he's doing and say you've lost 15% faith in him. Ok.
 
It's not informative. Every good GM makes mistakes, that's part of why it's easy to talk about building through the draft but hard to actually achieve.

Oakland, Cleveland, Tampa and JAX have been taking high picks for years and there they are again this year. The front offices there are terrible.

The key is the better GMs overcome their mistakes with a greater number of solid moves.

Beathard drafted Vernon Dean in 1982 who was a bust in the end as a second round pick.

But he drafted HOFers in 1980 (Monk), 1981 (Grimm) and 1983 (Green) with high picks.
 
Come on, McD. The only issue I think any of us have with you on this one is in the hyperbolic stuff you said earlier.

"Borderline insanity" I think it was?

And that, should the calculated gamble fail and Robert not only fail to show improvement but also get seriously hurt again, it'd cost us $16 mil. and thus "throw away the 2016 season."

And that Belichick would never make this move "in 100 years."

The insanity part isn't worth talking about.

The "costing the season" over $16 mil is not only hyperbole, but doesn't account for the projected rise in the cap to $150 million next year ... one of many factors in play that's probably being taken into account by the FO, don't you think?

As to what Belichick would or wouldn't do in this exact circumstance, that's unknown and unknowable. It's also not unlike bringing Vinny into the discussion--irrelevant.

Bottom line, you may ultimately be proven right and it may play out down the road badly for the team. But as of today, your over-the-top stab at making the point, given all the unknowns, and the hyperbole, are pretty much guaranteed to get the kind of WTF reaction you've gotten.

I don't suppose that was on purpose, was it? :cool:

McD5 said:
No argument here, brother. Just a misstep. I'm confident that his scouting abilities are his real strength.

I'm aware of how the option works.

1. It moves with him if traded. RG3 just went from a very inexpensive gamble for anyone interested in trading for him, into an expensive proposition due to the option. We just lessened his trade value, and probably pushed a couple of suitors completely away.

2. If he does go down again with another knee this year, we just threw away the entire 2016 season.

3. This extension is risky on a healthy player. It's borderline insanity on an injured player. This is a bad decision on RG3, Jordan Reed or anyone else who hasn't shown an ability to stay on the field. At least it would only be a $10 million gamble on Reed.

4. Bill Belichick would never make this move in 100 years. That's how you know it's a bad one.
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Om....no hyperbole at all.

Add up the advantages and disadvantages.

Best case scenario: RG3 plays lights out. He's here for the next 10 years. We save $4 million--the difference between picking up the option and the cost to franchise him next season. That's really it. $4 million upside.

Worst case scenario: Everything else. He blows a knee. He can't pass the physical at the end of the year. We have $16 million less than our competition next year. We had $15 million per year less with the Mara penalty. It crippled our ability to sign players and compete.

That's the gamble. $4 million in savings, versus $16 million in risk.

Doing that on any healthy player without a history of injury would be risky. Doing that for Desean Jackson would be a risk.

Doing that for a player with two serious knee injuries--a player whose ability to develop into a throwing QB is still in question is much higher. Super risky? Extremely risky? I find it to be borderline insanity. Maybe extremely risky would be more accurate.
 
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His knee hasn't been an issue in almost 2 years. It was his ankle last year.
 
McD5 said:
That would be like comparing night and day.

Still, both make mistakes. Or does Scot not make mistakes because he's a GM?

If the worst outcome happens, and RG3 goes down with another knee injury, and we lose $16 million on the cap next year?

Fans would point back to this as one of the worst decisions in years. It's a huge gamble. That's all.
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I totally agree with you McD in your assessment and understanding of the risk. Risk is not something to be "proven" as Mike says. It is there with or without the option. The Redskins have upped the ante without the reward....just to keep player "rights".

Another way to look at it is what I've previously said. That McClou can do all the right things and make correct selections, but the results don't have to pan out. Best player available is for the current crop of rookies, has nothing to do veterans already on the team that will be displaced by keeping 10-12 rookies. That change in dynamic may not result in a "better" team. We shall see.

My prediction is that we have a winning season and fans and media will champion Scot's wisdom but if we have a losing season, its all Gruden. Plus, due to the option, we may end up losing Griffin when we may want to keep him but not for $16M. I don't believe it has to be do or die with RGIII, but we have set it up for that.

Bottom line McClou has to prove himself too, I'm not going to annoint him king just because he had some success with other franchises during a moment in time. Got to earn your stripes everyday in the NFL.
 
MikeSr619 said:
But, there are a lot of things I don't understand. Like who was the first person to say "we should take the skin of a pig, make it in to an oblong shape, fill it with air, and then throw it to each other"
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His name was Alibaster Haroldo "Billy" Schwartz VI.

It should be noted that his first attempt ended when he accidently dropped the skins into a pan of hot grease. Giving the world, pork rinds.

He also had lost his magic marker, and was forced to use a tube of his wife's lipstick to draw the lines of where to cut the pieces. Ergo, lipstick on a pig.
 
This thread makes me think naughty thoughts about Sarah Palin...is that wrong?
 
If that's wrong......I don't want to be right.
 
Ax said:
His name was Alibaster Haroldo "Billy" Schwartz VI.

It should be noted that his first attempt ended when he accidently dropped the skins into a pan of hot grease. Giving the world, pork rinds.

He also had lost his magic marker, and was forced to use a tube of his wife's lipstick to draw the lines of where to cut the pieces. Ergo, lipstick on a pig.
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I feel like this might be the greatest lie ever told to me. I want so badly to believe it that I might just start using it as something I know as fact
 
McD5 said:
Best case scenario: RG3 plays lights out. He's here for the next 10 years. We save $4 million--the difference between picking up the option and the cost to franchise him next season. That's really it. $4 million upside.
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One other thing that it helps: we don't have to use any tag on Griffin if needed; we have several other key players(ie TWilliams and RKerrigan) with expiring contracts next year that we may need the tag for. I bet if we had nobody else that we need to have the tag available for, this doesn't happen.
 
tr1 said:
He picked Smith or Rodgers. Bombed draft? No, but that was a swing and a miss for a franchise evaluating qbs for the #1 pick.
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Alex Smith also went through countless coaches and offensive coordinators. Now that he has a stable environment around him he is doing pretty darn good.
 
I would love to have had Alex Smith for the past 7 years. It's all relative ...
 
I would've loved to have Sarah Palin 7 years ago...
 
You betcha!
 
I don't discuss politics on BGO ;-)
 
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