Redskins Insider: McCoy, Clausen draw Redskins' attention

I honestly think Cousin Vinny knows HOW to scout college players. He just doesn't always make good decisions. That's his MAIN problem. Then again, who knows, maybe it was Danny's idea to go take a look at these guys. Now THERE'S an even scarier thought.

Here's the deal......
We get a QB great I suppose and I hope he does become the next Peyton Manning.

The problem is that the FO has drafted 2 QBs in the 1st round in the Snyder administration and we are 0/2 on them. Ramsey did not succeed here and based on the FO's attempt to bring in Cutler/Sanchez and their hart-on for the next new, shiny QB one would assume that they feel the same way about Campbell.

Here's the problems our idiotic FO has done with these kids:

1. No continuity- None whatsoever for these kids. Ramsey had Spurrier and then Gibbs during his tenure. Campbell had Gibbs (2005), a Gibbs/Saunders system (2006-2007), Zorn (2008) and now a Sherm Lewis/Zorn system (2009).
And you wonder why these QBs fail. Put either Manning brother, Romo, Brady, Mcnabb, Favre or any other QB you like through this and I bet you'd have similar issues and growing pains.

2. Minimal protection- The Skins actually had a decent O-line in some places with Spurrier, but his schemes made Ramsey a punching bag. Gibbs O-line was seasoned but when an older vet broke down (Jansen, Thomas) there was little depth to replace those guys. No surprise since the Skins have only drafted 6 O-linemen since 2000 (only 3 in the first 3 rounds with Samuels being the only 1st rounder).

3. I question the FO's ability to draft talented QBs- There I said it. Do you see similarities with Campbell and Ramsey? I do. Big gun for an arm, slow release, sometimes holds onto the ball too long, misses open receivers doesn't always use the entire field (I will note Jason Campbell is better at some of these things than Ramsey).

So whomever the Skins draft, they almost set these kids up to fail because the don't develop the player with the same system/coach and they don't protect him.

You get an O-lineman, you get a guy who can help your run and pass game and hopefully have a guy that helps your QB not get killed.

My ideal situation is that the Skins tender Campbell with a 1st and 3rd tender (assuming to CBA will be in place or that the new CBA will keep the 2010 season either uncapped or players as restricted- that's the rumor I'm hearing).

My hope is that another team will give up those picks since Campbell is looking great right now and we use our 1st for Okung (if he's there) and their 1st for a new QB. Then we use the 3rd for either another O-lineman (center would be nice) or a RB.

But if that doesn't happen we have to draft a OL with the 1st IMO or we'll be having this conversation again in 2013 if McCoy/Clausen/Locker/Bradford is a clutch player and should be here or should we draft another QB.

I don't have a problem with the team scouting Clausen. Their job is to scout eligible players.

The problem I have is the FO (Snyder and Vinny) putting this information out.
Not only can it create problems in locker room, but the entire league knows what these clowns are up to and how to manipulate them.

Well I can guarantee you Leonsis didn't scout Semin, Backstrom or Varlamov for the Caps.

He took McPhee's word and those of the scouts that these players should be selected.

In terms of 'due diligence' as an owner, you take the measure of your GM and HC based on what they produce ON the field.

Did JKC ever travel with Beathard to scout picks?

Does Jerry Buss interview free agents with Mitch kupchak?

As an owner you need some distance from your employees to properly evaluate them.

Snyder is too close with Vinny and to give him some benefit of the doubt, probably doesn't see his flaws as clearly as others do.
Posted via BGO Mobile Device

Ax said:

It's as simple as this. IF, we draft a QB, and he's the next Peyton Manning, what is wrong with that?

And, if he's the next Ryan Leaf, you guys get to tell us all how "right" you were, and look like message board fortune tellers. What's wrong with that?

Click to expand...

What’s wrong with that is that we still won’t have a reliable starting quarterback.

Back when we drafted Heath Shuler, I was totally against the pick. I absolutely hated it and I told everyone and his mother how much I hated it. And when he didn’t pan out I wasn’t smug; I was pissed off. Sure, I was right that he was no good; sure, I won a moral victory. But moral victories don’t do diddly for the scoreboard.

I honestly think that if we draft a quarterback he’ll get killed behind our crappy line. Even Peyton Manning couldn’t play like Peyton Manning with these guys. The new young guy will become another David Carr and we will have thrown away a top five pick. My team will still be crappy and no moral victory will ever be able to compensate for that fact.

Does Jerry Jones scout players? I can't think of any other reason Danny would do it other than to prove he's as smart as Jerruh?

Yes, he does. I remember distinctly him attending the pro day at Arkansas the year Darren McFadden came out so I’m sure he makes the trips to other places as well. The difference is Jerry doesn’t even pretend not to be the GM. That doesn’t make it any better, but at least he isn’t hiding behind Vinny’s skirt like Dan is. Jerry lucked out in hiring Jimmy Johnson right out of the gate. If he hadn’t, he’d be viewed as just as big of a joke as Dan is. What success has he had since Jimmy’s players left? No more than we have honestly. His organization is just as dysfunctional as ours.

I see you working Ax and understand where you’re coming from, to a point. My complaining is not going to change a thing. I can’t just grin and keep my mouth shut when the ship is sinking though. I can’t remember a time when I’ve been so conflicted about the Skins. I love this team and always have, but I hate the way the ownership and management does things so much, I’m teetering. Do I want to keep dealing with this crap?

I don’t want to just walk away after being a fan my whole life so rather than just say “screw it” and walk away I come here and complain and talk about the team. I post because it makes me feel better to know other people love the team just as much as I do and are feeling the same frustrations.

So I’m a Drama Queen right? Not quite. I don’t make idle threats and I don’t take this lightly at all. Believe me, when I decide to stop following the team it’s just going to happen and I’ll never look back. I’ll take up woodworking on Sunday afternoons. I’ve never been closer to walking away than I am right now. Being a fan is a two way street and right now this organization is just taking. A rookie alone QB isn’t going to be enough to fix that.

Anne The Fan said:

What’s wrong with that is that we still won’t have a reliable starting quarterback.

Back when we drafted Heath Shuler, I was totally against the pick. I absolutely hated it and I told everyone and his mother how much I hated it. And when he didn’t pan out I wasn’t smug; I was pissed off. Sure, I was right that he was no good; sure, I won a moral victory. But moral victories don’t do diddly for the scoreboard.

I honestly think that if we draft a quarterback he’ll get killed behind our crappy line. Even Peyton Manning couldn’t play like Peyton Manning with these guys. The new young guy will become another David Carr and we will have thrown away a top five pick. My team will still be crappy and no moral victory will ever be able to compensate for that fact.

Click to expand...

Well, Anne, I was being a little facetious with my comments. Although, nobody knows for sure whether a guy is gonna be a bust, or not. Being right always has a degree of luck involved. And, as long as the guy isn't a bust, I don't really care who we draft. It's a crapshoot, anyway.

And, even established O-lines have trouble. Just ask Ben Rothlesberger.

Finally, you may not come around pointing out how right you are, when you're right, but not everyone shares you're humility.

Hog Fever said:

I see you working Ax and understand where you’re coming from, to a point. My complaining is not going to change a thing. I can’t just grin and keep my mouth shut when the ship is sinking though. I can’t remember a time when I’ve been so conflicted about the Skins. I love this team and always have, but I hate the way the ownership and management does things so much, I’m teetering. Do I want to keep dealing with this crap?

I don’t want to just walk away after being a fan my whole life so rather than just say “screw it” and walk away I come here and complain and talk about the team. I post because it makes me feel better to know other people love the team just as much as I do and are feeling the same frustrations.

So I’m a Drama Queen right? Not quite. I don’t make idle threats and I don’t take this lightly at all. Believe me, when I decide to stop following the team it’s just going to happen and I’ll never look back. I’ll take up woodworking on Sunday afternoons. I’ve never been closer to walking away than I am right now. Being a fan is a two way street and right now this organization is just taking. A rookie alone QB isn’t going to be enough to fix that.

Click to expand...

I understand everybody's frustrations, Hog, I really do. But after reading so many, identical posts, both here, and on that other site, it just becomes like radio static.

Annoying, and useless, IMHO.

Well Ax - to be fair - given where we are as an organization, and where this season has taken us, I'm not sure what else there is to talk about other than frustration, where the team/org has gone wrong, and the direction we should take?

Going to be awfully quiet around here if we take away those conversations

On the original topic - I think where fans miss the boat is that building a team is a process, not a series of unrelated, separate steps. Ax is right in that there's NOTHING wrong with picking a franchise QB, even when our line is arguably in shambles and we have no definitive future at RB. Most would agree (setting aside a good game or two of late by Jason Campbell) that we do not have 'the future' at QB and need to find one. If the educated decision in the next draft is that 'the future' is available, there's nothing wrong with picking him there. Drafting a QB, ANY QB, is and always will be to a large extent a crapshoot. That's not limited to the Redskins. It's common. All franchises miss more frequently on top-level QB picks than not. So if we pick a QB, we do so knowing there are no guarantees. You can't avoid going after who you think might be 'the guy' because of that. It's a known, unavoidable risk. My point is, if the team goes QB, it doesn't mean you ignore your other needs. Drafting a QB, and improving your ability to protect him are not mutually exclusive things. That's why there are multiple rounds of the NFL draft and free agency Our history isn't one of drafting QB after QB and ignoring what he needs to be successful. But we have had a history of throwing extremely precious draft picks around like poker chips for a flashy player, or to acquire players who've had major flaws/concerns with other teams that we somehow think will 'disappear' when they don the Burgundy and Gold.

So if we draft a QB, I won't criticize that move, as long as I also see meaningful effort being made to rebuild the trenches, and a shift away from treating our most valuable commodity (draft picks) as something not necessary for success.

Boone said:

Well Ax - to be fair - given where we are as an organization, and where this season has taken us, I'm not sure what else there is to talk about other than frustration, where the team/org has gone wrong, and the direction we should take?

Click to expand...

I understand, and agree. And, as your entire post so deftly demonstrates, there are plenty of issues to discuss concerning our team, without having to continually complain about the exact same things, DarkHeart & Vinny the Moocher, over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over.

It's like reading one post, followed by a hundred, + 1's.

Ax, being in the habit of visiting other team fan forums I can tell you this is almost universal. The Raiders forum I visited again yestarday (the mood there has improved considerably recently, by the way) had a thread, before the QB change called "This weeks Jamarcus Russel sucks thread." This is a reflection of how fan forums go, any perceived problems are hashed over repeatedly-usully in multiple threads. In fact it's turned out to be a useful tool in finding out about a teams strengths and weaknesses.

servumtuum said:

Ax, being in the habit of visiting other team fan forums I can tell you this is almost universal.

Click to expand...

Oh, I understand that too, my friend, but I don't have to like it.

So, with almost everybody else criticizing the team, from the top down, there is little to nothing that I can add which hasn't already been stated a gazillion times.

So, I piss and moan, about the pissin' and moanin'. A far less traveled road.

Ax said:

Oh, I understand that too, my friend, but I don't have to like it.

So, with almost everybody else criticizing the team, from the top down, there is little to nothing that I can add which hasn't already been stated a gazillion times.

So, I piss and moan, about the pissin' and moanin'. A far less traveled road.

Click to expand...

Then start some new threads about something that doesn't require "pissin' and moanin'".....hard to do about this team/franchise, but possible.
And say on the OP "don't complain about the FO, we already know how we feel about them"

I think everybody here would respect that request and you'd get what you want.

Walking Deadman said:

Then start some new threads about something that doesn't require "pissin' and moanin'".....hard to do about this team/franchise, but possible.
And say on the OP "don't complain about the FO, we already know how we feel about them"

I think everybody here would respect that request and you'd get what you want.

Click to expand...

Here? Maybe.

But I doubt it.

I'm on board as wanting to draft OL in rounds 1 and 2. That said, Jason Campbell being in the last year of his contract may very well force the FO to draft a QB in the first round. I certainly understand that because, IMO, it's a given Campbell won't be re-signed. If Okung and Suh and perhaps a couple other guys possibly labeled as "can't miss" prospects are off the board when our pick comes, other than arguing we should trade down, I would have a hard time arguing against taking a QB.

On the other side of the coin, how many times have the Skins been to the playoffs with a QB drafted in the first round? It HAS worked for other teams such as the Colts, Giants and Steelers so there's something to be said for it. If Samuels can come back from his injury, you could make a case for taking a QB in round 1 and OL in round 2 and I probably wouldn't complain too much. At least not right away.

Why is it a given JC won't be resigned? If its an uncapped year he will be a restricted FA.

The problem with that Jimbo is that there does not appear to be a franchise QB in this draft and the odds are too high that Claussen, or McCoy to be franchise Qb's or even that Bradford can come back form his injury.

With the win today we have probably taken ourselves out of the hunt for Okung, but we may still have a shot at the kid from MD, Bruce Campbell, if he comes out which it looks like he will.

Hopefully we will be in a position to trade down to a team that is looking for a specific player. A trade down could net us someone like Bulaga from Iowa and perhaps a chance at Bulaga and a player like Iupati from Idaho or Mike Johnson from Alabama.

I just can't believe that a QB in the 1st round is a wise choice in this year's draft. .

Yeah, I'm not so sure it's a given that Jason won't be re-signed, either.

If, the light is finally coming on as far as running this offense, how could going to another team, possibly learning another offense, (at the very least learning another coach/coordinator) be all that appealing to him?

And, if he continues to show he has the ability to be a good quarterback, I'm not convinced that the FO wouldn't take advantage of at least one more year with Jason.