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  1. #1
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    Default The Most Damning Evidence Against Jason Campbell

    One good thing about the pending end of this Redskins season: it could mark the end, for all time, of the incessant Jason Campbell debates 'round these parts.

    "No way he's gonna be back," ESPN's John Clayton said on Mike and Mike Tuesday morning. "My guess is you're gonna see the Redskins draft a quarterback in the first round and then probably not try to resign [Campbell]. They may have to go out and get a veteran backup quarterback, but no, I think Jason Campbell's gonna be moving on."

    If that's the case, we have four more weeks to debate the "Is Jason Campbell Clutch?" issue. And oddly, both sides got more ammo from this week's loss to the Saints.
    Here is the article in its entirety.
    Last edited by Lanky Livingston; 12-09-09 at 02:37 PM.
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    Campbell may be an decent QB, but not a clutch player. Much like our ex-kicker.
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    Sounds about right. But you have to wonder how much of that is because of the crappy team around him

    How would he be running the Saints for example?

    I know, I know, he has "Santana Eyes". He doesn't go through his progressions.

    But he has played better as of late.

    Plus we have more pressing issues to prioritize in the offseason. I'm not his biggest fan, but if we have to keep him one more year in order to fix the line, I probably wouldn't cringe too much
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    Default

    He has played better of late, until that INT against the Saints.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619
    maybe if he wasnt put in positions where he had to make such horrible decisions he wouldnt make them. maybe if suisham makes the field goal he doesnt have to try and force a ball in that wont go.
    Mike, you can't be serious. Maybe if he wasn't put in position to make horrible decisions? Maybe I'm misinterpreting what you're saying, but the only person who puts him in position to make a bad decision is Jason Campbell. He's the one who locks into receivers, he's the one who doesn't see open running lanes some times, he's the one who doesn't throw the ball away.

    Also, I am not "on a mission," I simply shared something from a DC sports blogger I found interesting. It is pretty damning evidence though, don't you think?
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    Default

    It would be interesting to see those same stats for every current qb over the same sample size.

    And, no. I'm not doing it.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris View Post
    It would be interesting to see those same stats for every current qb over the same sample size.

    And, no. I'm not doing it.
    That would be interesting...and painstaking. I'm not doing it either, lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post

    How would he be running the Saints for example?
    About the same as he runs the Redskins.

    The only reason the Saints are good is because a: Drew Brees and b: their scheme. In that order.

    Their talent outside (especially at WR) is marginal at best.

    Their scheme and QB get players open and in position to succeed.

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    My problem with Campbell is that he isn't an accurate passer and doesn't really know how to move around in the pocket well. I can't tell you how many times a our receivers have had to either go to the ground or dive for a ball when to catch it in stride would result in further gains. How many times have we seen our receivers get a step on a back and then watch as the ball is thrown to his outside...out of bounds. Throwing it to the inside at LEAST gives the receiver a chance to make a play on the ball and run under it. I've been skeptical of the complaints pertaining to our WR's all year. They can only catch the ball if it's thrown to them. Kelly doesn't make plays...well.....he's not getting the ball thrown to him. When he does, he generally holds onto the ball. A couple weeks ago, too, I saw him run with the ball down the sideline and was really impressed with speed I didn't know he had. Thomas and Davis are finally seeing the ball thrown their way and and everyone is now seeing that they can do something with it when they do. But, even on long gain catches, the receivers are often forced to maneuver for a ball thrown inaccurately, negating a chance to make more yards after the catch. How many times do we have to watch Santana DIVE for a quick hitch and then complain that he couldn't make the catch? Even on the Sellers fumble a case could be made that Campbell set him up to fail. Yeah, it may be a stretch, but my feeling at the time was that Campbell should never have thrown that ball....seeing the defensive player practically ON Sellers. The instant he caught the ball, he turned right into the defensive player and got blown up. No chance to set himself. Campbell could have done better.

    He has big games from time to time.....but, he's not been a clutch player and he's not an accurate passer. He continually moves INTO pressure from the rush than away from it. Would I be willing to watch him here in DC next year while our offensive line issues are addressed? Yes. But, I'd also want them to bring in a QB or two to groom under him.

    Just one man's opinion......

    HTTR
    Last edited by LoyalSkinsFan; 12-09-09 at 02:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatSleepRedskin View Post
    Their talent outside (especially at WR) is marginal at best.
    While I think that Brees makes them look better, the Saints talent at WR is far from marginal. Marques Colston is an elite WR, top 10 in the NFL, and Robert Meachem would start for half the teams in the NFL.
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    Default

    Updated the first post with the complete article from steinz.
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    I'll give you that the playcalling has not been spectacular - however Campbell DOES have the ability to audible. If he sees them stacked against the run, why not audible to a play-action pass??? Some of that has to lie on Campbell's shoulders as well. Its his team, his offense. HE needs to take charge.

    Steinberg said it best:
    To be clear, the haters don't blame him for this loss, in any way. We just think that the Vince Youngs of the world somehow find a way to win games like that, and more often than not, the Jason Campbells don't. If you're on a team that doesn't require late-game QB heroics, that's fine and dandy. For the Redskins, it doesn't work.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I'll give you that the playcalling has not been spectacular - however Campbell DOES have the ability to audible. If he sees them stacked against the run, why not audible to a play-action pass??? Some of that has to lie on Campbell's shoulders as well. Its his team, his offense. HE needs to take charge.
    Where are you getting this audible info from? I have a number of interviews with Redskins players that indicate there is no audible system for Jason and that the play called is the play called.

    Not saying you are wrong...just looking for something to counter what I have read other places.

    And while I agree a bit about Vince Young, I have mention that he is playing with the best running game in the league right now. A running game that is so BIG PLAY that it has to be respected even during the hurry up offense, especially if TN has Time Outs left. Jason does not have that.
    Last edited by Neophyte; 12-09-09 at 03:08 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    vince young's?

    seriously?

    the guy who was benched for Collins? then seen in a club with his shirt off and a bottle of Patron? Then his own mom had to call the police because they thought he was goign to kill himself?

    or the Vince Young who just crumbled against the Colts?
    How about the Vince Young who's won 9 of his last 10 starts?
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    I know this thread is about JC and debating about his performance in "clutch" situations but it got me wondering something. Sometimes it seems to me that the entire team fails in the clutch rather than one or just a few players. We were seriously beating up New Orleans until late in the game then everything seemed to start to crumble-we let the Saints back into the game, they came through in a clutch situation. The Skins defense suddenly was unable to stop Brees, the offense suddenly wasn't moving the ball toward yet another td. Jason may have a tendency toward getting into a "deer-in-the-headlights" mode, especially if the Skins have a late lead but it seems to me that this is systemic-it seems to affect almost everybody. Jason was having a career game-until the last few minutes and there is evidence that his performance falls off late in games-but I don't think he's alone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neophyte View Post
    Where are you getting this audible info from? I have a number of interviews with Redskins players that indicate there is no audible system for Jason and that the play called is the play called.

    Not saying you are wrong...just looking for something to counter what I have read other places.
    I don't have any insider information, except that we've seen him audible in games before. Usually unsuccessfully. The only example that immediately comes to mind was 3rd and 8 a few weeks ago, when he audibled to a run-play, and we came up about 5 yards short.

    And while I agree a bit about Vince Young, I have mention that he is playing with the best running game in the league right now. A running game that is so BIG PLAY that it has to be respected even during the hurry up offense, especially if TN has Time Outs left. Jason does not have that.
    A great running game certainly helps, just ask Mark Brunell. However running game or no, the game-winning drive by Young against the Cardinals went 99 yards, consisted of 17 pass-plays and one scramble (I didn't watch, so I don't know if it was a broken pass-play or a designed run) and zero hand-offs. And the Titans had 2 time-outs and the 2-minute warning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    9 of the last ten?

    so you are going to count the ones prior to getting benched for Collins?

    big time game..going up against the same caliber team as JC did and what did he do? Not a thing. Dude crumbled...
    You don't consider the Cardinals a big-time team? I mean, they were only in the superbowl last year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by servumtuum View Post
    Jason was having a career game-until the last few minutes and there is evidence that his performance falls off late in games-but I don't think he's alone.
    Yeah, but good QBs lift their teams in the final minutes. I mean, I hate to compare Campbell to the elite-QBs like Manning, Brady, Montana, but these guys made legends out of average Joe receivers...would Dwight Clark be a house hold name if not for Montana?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    he beat Leinart not Warner. And my guess is that was a mental thing that goes back to the USC/Texas days where he stepped his game up.
    Ah...I must have missed where Leinart was playing defense on that final drive.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    AZ has a stellar D eh? That 24th overall D must really impress you.

    30th in passing
    12th in run.

    MAN!! Move over 00 Ravens and 85 Bears!!!!

    Kind of like how Campbell completely CARVED UP the 30th ranked Detroit Lions defense to win the game? Or how he DISMANTLED the 25th ranked Rams defense for zero touchdowns? Or maybe you were most impressed by his DESTRUCTION of the 31st ranked Chiefs defense? That one must be it...that was the impressive one!
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    Campbell was drafted #25 in 2005. Aaron Rodgers was drafted #24 in 2005.

    Campbell began playing in the NFL in 2006 and was the regular starter in both 2007 and 2008 as well as 2009 to start those campaigns.

    Rodgers sat on the bench behind Brett Favre until 2008 and then took to the field and with limited starting experience became a solid NFL starter.

    Now he is coming up to the next level, below elite status.

    Meanwhile, Campbell is right now not that much further along than he was last year when he threw for 300 yards against the Lions and there were whispers he was finally catching on to the NFL game.

    Throw in the Saints game.

    Look at what Campbell and Rodgers have done in the same period of time and then come back and tell me that Campbell should be resigned to a long-term deal

    The Redskins most pressing need is for a quarterback who can perform in the fourth quarter under pressure and secure that winning TD or FG drive and keep the ball away from a Drew Brees or Peyton Manning.

    Whatever other things Campbell has done, be it scramble for yardage at times to connecting with Moss on a 67 yard TD like he did last year vs. NO, what he has NOT done is take this team down the field and salted away a victory in a close game against a good opponent.

    He always seems to throw that key interception or suffer a fumble or sack to end the contest.
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