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Orakpo goes to Tennesee

Ax said:
Yeah, someone already alluded to it, but we haven't had a defense, other than one of Greg Williams', that could get a stop when they absolutely had to have it. The would bend all game long keeping it close, but ultimately break in the end. The move was ill-timed, and poorly done. No question about that. But going to a fat, ugly, stupid girl, doesn't warrant pining for the fat, ugly, average IQ girl you left behind.
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2000 and 2002 were our best defenses if the 2001 defense had bought into Marty earlier it would have been light years better
if we had done it right hired a similar minded coach to Norv and kept those players and drafted good we would have been a lot better I do believe but we switched philosophy more often than vinny switched his underwear
 
redskins26 said:
2000 and 2002 were our best defenses if the 2001 defense had bought into Marty earlier it would have been light years better
if we had done it right hired a similar minded coach to Norv and kept those players and drafted good we would have been a lot better I do believe but we switched philosophy more often than vinny switched his underwear
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It wasn't just Marty's defense. We actually went a period of time, where we had several decent DC's and good defenses in a row - Ray Rhodes, Marvin Lewis, and Marty, and I think one more
The problem during that time, was that our offense was inept
 
We never had a qb after Brad Johnson left.

The rogue's gallery of Jeff George, Tony Banks, Shane Matthews, Danny Wuerffel, etc took its cumulative toll.

Remember Tony Banks had ONE audible in 2001?

Those days were the Stone Age.
 
fansince62 said:
bubba...I agree with the idea on the shift to 3-4 not being executed smartly and therefore may not have been a great idea to start with. I disagree on the quality of the previous defenses theme - those defenses, even when occasionally ranked high...flat out sucked. it was always a "bend but don't break" concept that consistently broke when it counted. since 1992 SB we have never, ever had a top flight defense. now, I agree we may have had more to work with - though even there the piece parts kept changing.
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I love revisionist history. They did not suck...an offense that was ill equipped to carry the load late in the game and churn off clock, put that defense back on the field 4, 5, 6 times in the 4th quarter of a game. How many times is a defense going to be asked to stop the opposing offense in 1 quarter of football? When they put the opposing offense on the field as many as 5 times in one quarter, after the defense has stopped that offense every other time...that is not indicative of a defense that sucks.

You are seriously off on this. It was a serviceable defense...it was not nearly as terrible as our offense was when Shanahan arrived.
 
Elephant said:
I love revisionist history. They did not suck...an offense that was ill equipped to carry the load late in the game and churn off clock, put that defense back on the field 4, 5, 6 times in the 4th quarter of a game. How many times is a defense going to be asked to stop the opposing offense in 1 quarter of football? When they put the opposing offense on the field as many as 5 times in one quarter, after the defense has stopped that offense every other time...that is not indicative of a defense that sucks.

You are seriously off on this. It was a serviceable defense...it was not nearly as terrible as our offense was when Shanahan arrived.
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hmmmm.....nope!

an argument predicated on "they weren't as bad as the offense" doesn't carry the day. I remember what I saw - exactly as someone else posted...the only real good year for the defense was William's first season. otherwise, the defense never stopped anyone. I remember games where we thought we had an ascendant defense...like NE when they put 52 on us....and never materialized when it mattered.

except for Williams' first year...I also don't recall anyone posting "Those (Bache, Lewis, etc.) years...we were the schlitz!!" the best, IMO, that can be said is that some of those defenses were certainly a lot better than what we have had to endure the last couple years.

comparatively speaking (i.e., vis the offense) you are right. but in terms of the rest of the NFL? not buying it. most of those defenses were mediocre at best.
 
fansince62 said:
hmmmm.....nope!

an argument predicated on "they weren't as bad as the offense" doesn't carry the day. I remember what I saw...
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And there you go, revise my argument...you enjoy cherry picking? Revisionist short term history.
 
Fear The Spear said:
Tony Banks actually was not a bad QB, when put in perspective of the rest of the guys who held that position here
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXJZBjylYlo

I remember not liking the Orakpo pick because the publication I used to follow when I really cared about the NFL draft said he was a one trick pony. He then posted a decent season and I thought, "What do they know?". After that, I found out. He just couldn't figure out how to diversify his game/moves to become a really good (nevermind great) player. Unlike some of our other former players, he was class on the way out so I have no hard feelings for him though.
 
The defense here under Gregg Williams was solid for the most part.

Gibbs' miss on Mark Brunell and later Jason Campbell is why the offense continued to disappoint despite having a pro bowl runner in Portis and a pro bowl receiver in Moss.
 
Eh, I'd say bringing Al "700 Page Playbook" Saunders hurt more than Brunell or Campbell.

Also having 3 Olinemen that required labrum surgery on their shoulders after the season, and losing Thomas at the end of the season kept us from making a serious run at the SB in Gibbs 2nd year back.
 
I always feel like Brunell was better than folks remember. Limited by diminishing arm strength but he generally made good decisions with the ball and was able to move the chains and manage the offense capably for the most part. He sort of got caricatured towards the end and probably deserved some of that, but I admired the kind of player he was for the most part.
 
I remember Mark as a capable manager of the underneath game, but not a guy who could threaten a defense down the field (with the notable exception of the Monday Night Miracle--though that was probably more a function of Dallas S Roy Williams fail than anything we did). I can recall the utter frustration of Mark backpedalling, backpedalling ... and dumping it off. Defenses didn't have to play us honest--they crowded the box and dared us to beat them on the ground and underneath.

We didn't.
 
Anyone remember the playoff game against Tampa, a Redskins win?

With Brunell they set the record for least yardage on offense for a playoff winner since the merger.

The 2005 team overall was better than most think and could have gone a lot further with a quarterback closer to his prime.
 
I attended that game live in Tampa. It was incredible.

That one game is the reason why I'll always give Lavar a pass. He played like a hall of famer that afternoon and sent us to Seattle.
 
Brunell's got the best record of any of our QB's over the last...what? 16 years? Until we get a bonified defense, our offense must score more than 16 pts a game. They have to be in the 28-35 range. So shuffle the roster, nothing will change until that does. I highly doubt that Gruden is going to turn into a Billick who went to Balt. and won with a defense he never saw the likes of. That won't happen in D.C. The pressure on Gruden and Griffin is going to be off the charts.
 
Fear The Spear said:
It wasn't just Marty's defense. We actually went a period of time, where we had several decent DC's and good defenses in a row - Ray Rhodes, Marvin Lewis, and Marty, and I think one more
The problem during that time, was that our offense was inept
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have to differ with ya Fear. my memory is that none of those defenses were complete. when pass defense ascended...run defense fell. additionally, the outstanding memory I hold is of defenses that opposing offenses moved up and down the field on. some were not bad defenses...I just don't recall any that were play-off caliber. good offenses moved the ball pretty regularly on those defenses. I will agree those defenses were a far sight better than what we have had to endure the last couple years.
 
Well, the last two years were the worst back to back since the merger.

7-25.

An indictment of all involved.

That's one reason I am not wedded to Griffin. If our new GM wants to take Mariota if available I won't have that big of an issue with it.
 
redskins26 said:
If a defense can't stop the final drive of a game it stinks plain and simple year after year from Norv till now we have seen this defense wether it's the 4-3 or 3-4 fail to stop that final drive

what hurt our transition to the 3-4 was Albert worthless then the cap penalty didn't help either with players looking for guaranteed money we were not in position to sign most impact players we got some and they were decent.
Mother teams force their players to play OLB when they switch like Trent cole of the eagles and no drop off or minimal drop off
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what hurt our transition to the 3-4 was the fact that we were stacked with players who werent suited to it and our strength was at DE which was the ONE position that is worthless in a 3-4. Haynesworth could have been at the very least a solid player under a different coach and under the right one would have been good to great. how quickly people forget that Carter was also pretty much run off after having an excellent season.
 
fansince62 said:
bubba...I agree with the idea on the shift to 3-4 not being executed smartly and therefore may not have been a great idea to start with. I disagree on the quality of the previous defenses theme - those defenses, even when occasionally ranked high...flat out sucked. it was always a "bend but don't break" concept that consistently broke when it counted. since 1992 SB we have never, ever had a top flight defense. now, I agree we may have had more to work with - though even there the piece parts kept changing.

let's face it - across the board this team has not sustained a core competency in anything since 1992.

let's hope McL changes that :)
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under williams we had to blitz because our front 7 was terrible and we invested no resources in it. we still got pressure and one season played very well.
 
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