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Redskins Eagles Trade Rumors CSN

The Colts had a line already when they drafted luck...manning helped mold it.
 
If you have a chance to get a legit Franchise QB, you get him. Period.

In the absence of that clear chance, you focus on building the lines, and an overall roster that can compete and maybe catch a wave for a season or two while you WAIT for the chance to get a legit Franchise QB.

Once you have that guy, if you're lucky enough to get him at all, building a roster to support him is exponentially easier and more successful.
 
Boone said:
Well, that and the fact that Gruden has shown zero ability so far to grow/coach up any QB, much less a rookie.
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well....not his job: he, you, I, all of us....learned that this past season. HC has too many pulls on time; hence, enter our new QB coach. no excuses this time around. RG, Cousins.......better produce...right off the bat IMO....or they are history.
 
Om said:
If you have a chance to get a legit Franchise QB, you get him. Period.

In the absence of that clear chance, you focus on building the lines, and an overall roster that can compete and maybe catch a wave for a season or two while you WAIT for the chance to get a legit Franchise QB.

Once you have that guy, if you're lucky enough to get him at all, building a roster to support him is exponentially easier and more successful.
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I need to go back and verify....but my take on McL is that he made repeated attempts to find QBs both in SF and Seattle regardless of prior season record (i.e., took shots every season). also, per other reports, as a disciple of Wolf our new GM will always be on the prowl for the next QB to groom.
 
for the assembled experts that grace BGO each day: what exactly does build the lines mean? on one level it's obvious enough - get better. but what does it mean on the next level? there is only so much cap money to go around.

- does it mean invest the bulk of your money in D & O lines?

- does mean invest in one or two high price studs on each side of the ball and go with 2-3 yr rotational guys at the other line positions?

- does it imply go cheap(er) at LBs, safeties, CBs cuz the money is in the lines?

- does it mean draft one or two studs on the lines and hope you get lucky with late round picks (who will exit in FA if they develop into quality players)?

What does develop the lines first mean in the context of a fixed budget (annually) that has to be distributed among multiple skill sets? Do we reduce investment in WRs IOT build the lines? Do we forgo stud QBs and keep field managers instead? What's the grand strategy?
 
MikeSr619 said:
That has nothing to do with what McD said.
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I beg to differ: McD was responding to Ryman...as I was....that is the context.

But....minor matter in the grand scheme of things.

You two can continue your battles!
 
fansince62 said:
I beg to differ: McD was responding to Ryman...as I was....that is the context.

But....minor matter in the grand scheme of things.

You two can continue your battles!
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No, you are mistaken. He said "should they have drafted a lineman instead of luck?" When they already had a line because of manning.

I know what was said and what I was saying to him.
 
fansince62 said:
for the assembled experts that grace BGO each day: what exactly does build the lines mean? on one level it's obvious enough - get better. but what does it mean on the next level? there is only so much cap money to go around.

- does it mean invest the bulk of your money in D & O lines?

- does mean invest in one or two high price studs on each side of the ball and go with 2-3 yr rotational guys at the other line positions?

- does it imply go cheap(er) at LBs, safeties, CBs cuz the money is in the lines?

- does it mean draft one or two studs on the lines and hope you get lucky with late round picks (who will exit in FA if they develop into quality players)?

What does develop the lines first mean in the context of a fixed budget (annually) that has to be distributed among multiple skill sets? Do we reduce investment in WRs IOT build the lines? Do we forgo stud QBs and keep field managers instead? What's the grand strategy?
Click to expand...

Though far from an expert, I can give you my take on this. In my opinion, I think "Building the Lines" is a continual process. Assuming we average 7 draft picks a year for the forseeable future, I would like to see us devote an average of 3-4 picks per year on the Lines. Once you have an OLine like Dallas, I think you still need to draft eventual replacements and keep up a strong rotation. I'm hesitant to reduce success in the NFL to one variable because I think it is a LOT more complex than that, but I do think a strong OLine and DLine GREATLY increase a given team's likelihood of success much more than, say, a strong LB'ing corp, or a strong WR group. Hell, I think we saw that last year in DC.

The game has changed, we all acknowledge it's a passing league now. If you can't protect your QB, you're going to have a hard time scoring enough points to win. Conversely, if you can't get after the other team's QB, no matter if you're playing against Brady or Sexy, most guys at the NFL level are going to be good enough to beat you. As Om said, you build the lines, giving multiple draft picks each year to both lines, take chances on QBs with upside and if you have a chance to get a franchise QB, you take it.
 
fansince62 said:
well....not his job: he, you, I, all of us....learned that this past season. HC has too many pulls on time; hence, enter our new QB coach. no excuses this time around. RG, Cousins.......better produce...right off the bat IMO....or they are history.
Click to expand...

Of course it's his job - it may not only be his job but the quality of play and growth of the starting QB is absolutely his job. The fact that Gruden struggled mightily as a first year head coach is an issue but his management of the QBs was pathetic IMHO.
 
More rumors are surfacing that Cleveland covets Mariota too. Other rumors continue to suggest that the Eagles could have a deal in place with the Jets for a trade up. Could the Browns jump one higher and snag him at five?

A bidding war would be great and the edge probably goes to the Browns. Considering what we gave up to move four slots higher, this could command quite the premium.

I still think he goes to the Titans at two, but...
 
Boone said:
Of course it's his job - it may not only be his job but the quality of play and growth of the starting QB is absolutely his job. The fact that Gruden struggled mightily as a first year head coach is an issue but his management of the QBs was pathetic IMHO.
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hmmm...I would argue he is accountable, not responsble. the team has multiple functions (block, pass defend, run defend, pass receive, etc.) it has to execute. Gruden has a staff - specialization and division of labor - to oversee the teaching/training/execution of those functions. Gruden is accountable for the overall product. He tried to be responsible for QB teaching/training and has told us there isn't enough time in the day for a HC to do this effectively and all his other tasks; hence, the team has hired a QB coach.

I agree that what he did wearing the QB mentoring hat left a lot to be desired. I thought that was one of the things he was brought in to do. After last season, I understand better that the actual teaching is done by staff - that's where it broke down. The HC establishes the over-arching schemes, strategy, etc....in addition to all the day to day management and non-football related tasks. that, at least, is my take on what he and we learned from last season insofar as QBs go.
 
Burgundy Burner said:
More rumors are surfacing that Cleveland covets Mariota too. Other rumors continue to suggest that the Eagles could have a deal in place with the Jets for a trade up. Could the Browns jump one higher and snag him at five?

A bidding war would be great and the edge probably goes to the Browns. Considering what we gave up to move four slots higher, this could command quite the premium.

I still think he goes to the Titans at two, but...
Click to expand...

the plot thickens!!!!
 
Goaldeje said:
Though far from an expert, I can give you my take on this. In my opinion, I think "Building the Lines" is a continual process. Assuming we average 7 draft picks a year for the forseeable future, I would like to see us devote an average of 3-4 picks per year on the Lines. Once you have an OLine like Dallas, I think you still need to draft eventual replacements and keep up a strong rotation. I'm hesitant to reduce success in the NFL to one variable because I think it is a LOT more complex than that, but I do think a strong OLine and DLine GREATLY increase a given team's likelihood of success much more than, say, a strong LB'ing corp, or a strong WR group. Hell, I think we saw that last year in DC.

The game has changed, we all acknowledge it's a passing league now. If you can't protect your QB, you're going to have a hard time scoring enough points to win. Conversely, if you can't get after the other team's QB, no matter if you're playing against Brady or Sexy, most guys at the NFL level are going to be good enough to beat you. As Om said, you build the lines, giving multiple draft picks each year to both lines, take chances on QBs with upside and if you have a chance to get a franchise QB, you take it.
Click to expand...

nice post Goal!

my point is that the cap forces teams to consider where they are going to invest their big bucks - and there aint enough to go around at all positions. we all know the lines need to be better.....how much better and at what opportunity cost? One viable answer might be - doesn't matter...teams are always going to be in 3 year cycles...there is no long term "core strength" except, perhaps, at the QB position.
 
MikeSr619 said:
No, you are mistaken. He said "should they have drafted a lineman instead of luck?" When they already had a line because of manning.

I know what was said and what I was saying to him.
Click to expand...

ok....I will leave it at the idea McD directly quoted Ryman. this is why I noted context. you and he are arguing a point that grew out of the larger discussion.
 
fansince62 said:
ok....I will leave it at the idea McD directly quoted Ryman. this is why I noted context. you and he are arguing a point that grew out of the larger discussion.
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Stop saying you'll leave it then and just leave it. I don't need nor did I ask you for any clarification
 
I'm just about done with the stupid personal shit. Fair warning.
 
You do what you gotta do, fellas. I am who I am and I'm not a fan of being called our or chastised in public. If that means I'm not going to make it on this board then so be it.

Have a good day.
 
fansince62 said:
nice post Goal!

my point is that the cap forces teams to consider where they are going to invest their big bucks - and there aint enough to go around at all positions. we all know the lines need to be better.....how much better and at what opportunity cost? One viable answer might be - doesn't matter...teams are always going to be in 3 year cycles...there is no long term "core strength" except, perhaps, at the QB position.
Click to expand...

I agree and disagree with you. Gun to my head, outside of QB, if you asked me to identify what position grouping on the team would give the Skins the best chance for long term success (ie, 5-8 years), I would identify the OLine, and if given a second choice, the DLine. I am OK with allocating a lot of resources there accordingly. As I said, we have seen how far a top 5 unit of WRs gets us. It turns my stomach to say it, but I was envious of the Dallas OLine this year, and am hoping we emulate them.

(taking a shower, brb)

OK, and toweling off...

Blah. If Scot decides, on average, to take two OLinemen and two DLinemen every year for the next five years, I'm good with that. Some of that falls into the BPA debate, and some of it is that we just haven't had the talent evaluators here to hit the right combination of talent and schematic fit that we need to be successful. Fingers crossed here that Scot will help get it right for us. I'd like for him to start on both lines, and work out from there.
 
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