McCloughan's draft plan

I have actually enjoyed the vigorous back and forth on Gruden vs. Griffin over the past week. I think it shows that *most of us* can vehemently disagree and have those energetic conversations while still being friendly and maintaining a sense of humor. It's pretty obvious that when the camaraderie and shared desire for team success break down - it's almost always because folks are either making the discussions personal, or just plain abandoning any compulsion to be nice or civil.

I don't know if we'll be better this season in the W-L column, but I think we will be different, and we'll have some fresh talent and potential talent to observe and judge (including key coaches). I am excited that we'll have our full complement of draft choices (and possibly more than that) for the first time in forever.

And while I don't believe McLovin is Jesus returned to save our franchise as some of you seem to believe, I do believe he has a great and proven eye for talent and also knows how a professional front office operates. All of that has to be helpful at some level.

Blasphemer!

tr1 said:

Considering that he's had major injuries for the last two years, I'd say you're closing the book on the guy a bit too quickly. In fact, I saw a lot of improvement at the end of the year, even considering the botched, ham-handed HC fiasco at the end. In the head coaching business, it's always someone else not 'executing' when the wheels come off.

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I've been a homeristic supporter of Griffin's for his first 3 years, even in the absence of any reason to be so during the past 2 years. At some point, it becomes clear that he may want to talk and be treated like a franchise QB, but he isn't close to actually being one. I understand the injuries set him back - but his lack of judgment contributed to at least one (if not both) of the injuries, and I am most concerned about his lack of a solid MENTAL grasp of what the QB of the Redskins needs to do, not the physical side.

Gruden was as big a disappointment as RG3 last year...given his multiple opportunities to improve. What was Gruden's record while RG3 didn't start?

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Gruden was in his first NFL head coaching year - ever. Griffin is heading into year 4. If Gruden is still looking like a rookie after 3 seasons, I'll be equally critical.

Everyone should take a look at Ryan Clark's comments once he was off the team.

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I looked. I think the idea that the head coach needs to build everything he does around his QB's wishes is ridiculous. I understand the 'design the offense around Robert's strengths' argument, but it's overly simplistic. Gruden has spent a lifetime of coaching embracing certain offensive philosophies. He shouldn't be expected to abandon what's made him successful to date because his QB can't manage basic quarterbacking skills and decision-making. It's not Gruden's job to resurrect Robert ****ing Griffin's career. It's Griffin's job to do that. If he does - fantastic. If not, it's time to move on.

I may go to hell for this, but...


Our Scot, who art in Ashburn, hallowed be thy draft picks.
Thy QB shall come, thy will be done...
In New York as it is in Ashburn.
Give us this day, our Olinemen,
and forgive us our infatuation with WRs,
As we forgive those who doubt you.
Lead us not back to Vinny, but deliver us from crapiness,
For thine has the skill, the talent and the glory forever,
A-Men.

Yep, you'll be bunking right next to OJ Simpson in fire and brimstone eternity.

Now that I think about it, if that happens, my last post will be one on a LONG list of reasons why...

Goaldeje said:

Perhaps they aren't saying anything because they saw how Robert's situation was handled, and they don't want that shitstorm directed at them?

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I had this same thought.

Boone said:

Or more likely, they agree?

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Possible, although in this case I rather think Occum's Razor might apply. I do concede that this scenario might be just a simple as the one Goal has put forth though.

tr1 said:

So, the question begs to be asked: Why has Gruden nominated RG3 to be the starter next season? If McCoy, with his stats, was such an effective starter, why didn't he get the nod?

More drama between the FO and the coach, or did Gruden see RG3 improvement at the end last year?

Inquiring minds need to know.

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McCoy only started in 2014 because a) Griffin wasn't full strength, and b) Cousins couldn't stop throwing picks. Gruden gave McCoy praise because, well, he earned it. But I've never heard Griffin speculate ala Shanahan that McCoy might be the next John Beck Gruden has always known and acknowledged that Griffin was drafted to be the franchise QB and is obviously the most physically talented of the three. As to why he proclaimed Griffin the defacto starter going into this season, it's so obvious as to not really need explaining, isn't it?

Gruden was asked who the starter was. So he gave the obvious answer - the guy who ended last year as the starter. That's Griffin. He has also said several times since that nothing is set and stone and that things could change, based on exactly the variables that should determine a starter - work put in, demonstrated growth and competence running the offense, performance in practice, etc...etc... I haven't heard anything as far as whether Gruden felt Griffin was playing better (or showing signs of 'getting it') in the final few games.

The team appears to have agreed to keep Griffin through year 4 of his rookie contract (the 5th year option is by no means a sure thing). Short of another team giving up value in a trade, is there another logical option short of cutting him? I don't think either Gruden's naming him the presumptive starter (emphasis on 'presumptive') or them keeping him around necessarily constitutes a vote of high confidence.

fansince62 said:

wilco. response came off a little harsher than I intended. we're all a little "high pitched" when it comes to Griffin/Gruden.

Will monitor length in future posts.

Just so we're all regrouped on the same ship - we are going to be a better team this upcoming season regardless. and that's something to be happy about!

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It's all good Al. We are all passionately defending our positions using very limited insight into what is happening behind the scenes. Much inference and bias comes into play. If we all interpreted events the same way this would be one hell of a boring site.

The things that RG did in 2012 all built off him keeping the defense off balance. He had much more time because D's were respecting his athleticism and hadn't figured out a good way to slow down the option. He ran it to perfection. So much so that it's hard to imagine him ever doing it again to that level even if he hadn't gotten hurt. He was in that athletic zone. He has to transition a big part of his game to traditional in the pocket passing. He did not anticipate receivers locations in 2012 because he didn't have too. He had the time to wait for them to get open. Now he has to learn to get the ball out to the spot and he's struggled mightily. Not because of poor coaching, but because it's a new skill for him. Gruden's biggest mistake last year, IMO, was sitting him. He should have been left in to struggle and figure it out. Hopefully, if he comes in improved, he'll get the opportunity to take his lumps while growing. Admittedly I see it as an unlikely scenario that he succeeds. Not because I don't want him to, but because I've just not seen what I need to in terms of him changing his game, despite the poor line, the personality conflict with Gruden and his injuries.



"ok....so folks see the same phenomena differently"

That there were plays called, or that he didn't look good/comfortable running them?


"wrong. McL was sending a message to the entire team."

Agree completely. I didn't mean to insinuate it was only aimed at Robert. But it was certainly also aimed at him. And I think he was making some specific comments about the QB's, but I'd have to go find it and look again.


"and you know this how? that's just anti-Snyder lore absorbed by an unreflective portion of the fanbase. could the fact that Cousins was a pick machine and McCoy a career loser also highly susceptible to injury have anything to do with outcomes?"

Well, I don't "know" it anymore than you know that they could have done more behind the scenes. We're all making a lot of assumptions. I agree with you on Cousins and McCoy, which jives with my contention that Roberts failings are on Robert's shoulders. They're each responsible for their play. Gruden didn't break them or make them worse. We got from them what the currently are, and in McCoy's case what he's always been and likely will be. Though there is room for all three to grow and be successful. Will any of them? Does RG's athleticism and year one success, make him the better bet? Only time will tell. I wouldn't hitch my saddle to any of them if there were better choices available. Hopefully, by the time there are better choices, Robert will have awoken.


"not picking on you....but that's a cliché. defenses can adjust to any offensive strategy"
Which is why it's hard for any offense to stand out as clearly dominant for any period of time. But try to make one dominant hinging on the abilities of a single player, and Defenses will figure out how to minimize the impact. Great QB's are built by their supporting cast IMO. Longevity requires it.

bottom line: I think a portion of the fanbase springboarded off of Coolies' stinging analysis of a horrible griffin game...one game...and expanded it into "it's all but over" territory.

I happen to not align with that mindset. he has declined over the last two years. there are many reasons for that. one either believes he can recover....or one doesn't. I fall into the latter camp.

'Though there is room for all three to grow and be successful.'

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I think you have given some of the best analysis of the situation I've read. I would argue the one point above aggressively though.

One of the biggest problems with Redskins fans isn't their non-reflectiveness (boo Al!), but rather their dogged belief that whomever is under center for the B&G is just a couple learning points and skill enhancements away from being 'the guy'. It's been going on for about the same amount of time that the Redskins have sucked, and it continues. Patrick Ramsey. Jason Campbell. Colt Brennan. Guys with 'potential' who, if it weren't for the way the Redskins handled them, were future stars. Of the long laundry list of poor, misunderstood would be Redskins QBing stars of the past 20 years, only a handful ever did anything once they escaped the oppressive soul-crushing grip of the Skins coaching staff. Brad Johnson played pretty well for Tampa Bay. Campbell as well in a # of stops. But basically, they were all QBs with a limited skill set and gaps in their game. You could win some with them, but you would never win a lot because of them.

And I think many are doing the same thing with Griffin, Cousins, hell, maybe even Colt. None of them has shown yet that they can be 'the guy', a QB that consistently produces, makes great decisions, limits mistakes, and can put the team on their back in critical situations and win. And when they aren't able to do those things we fall back on the same old arguments. The Redskins aren't using them right. The supporting cast sucks. We ruined them. When really, as often happens to QBs at the NFL level, the truth is that maybe they just aren't that good.

The jury is still out on Griffin imho - he had that one glorious year. But even the reluctant jurors are tired of the debate and are going to make up their mind on a verdict soon. He'd better remind us a lot of the incredible guy we saw in 2012, or he's going to be convicted. If he doesn't though, his failure is going to be that he just wasn't as good as we thought he was.

fansince62 said:

bottom line: I think a portion of the fanbase springboarded off of Coolies' stinging analysis of a horrible griffin game...one game...and expanded it into "it's all but over" territory.

I happen to not align with that mindset. he has declined over the last two years. there are many reasons for that. one either believes he can recover....or one doesn't. I fall into the latter camp.

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I never heard Cooley's analysis, but I agree with your summation. I'm not 100% convinced he can't recover, I just see it as long odds.

Boone said:

I think you have given some of the best analysis of the situation I've read. I would argue the one point above aggressively though.

One of the biggest problems with Redskins fans isn't their non-reflectiveness (boo Al!), but rather their dogged belief that whomever is under center for the B&G is just a couple learning points and skill enhancements away from being 'the guy'. It's been going on for about the same amount of time that the Redskins have sucked, and it continues. Patrick Ramsey. Jason Campbell. Colt Brennan. Guys with 'potential' who, if it weren't for the way the Redskins handled them, were future stars. Of the long laundry list of poor, misunderstood would be Redskins QBing stars of the past 20 years, only a handful ever did anything once they escaped the oppressive soul-crushing grip of the Skins coaching staff. Brad Johnson played pretty well for Tampa Bay. Campbell as well in a # of stops. But basically, they were all QBs with a limited skill set and gaps in their game. You could win some with them, but you would never win a lot because of them.

And I think many are doing the same thing with Griffin, Cousins, hell, maybe even Colt. None of them has shown yet that they can be 'the guy', a QB that consistently produces, makes great decisions, limits mistakes, and can put the team on their back in critical situations and win. And when they aren't able to do those things we fall back on the same old arguments. The Redskins aren't using them right. The supporting cast sucks. We ruined them. When really, as often happens to QBs at the NFL level, the truth is that maybe they just aren't that good.

The jury is still out on Griffin imho - he had that one glorious year. But even the reluctant jurors are tired of the debate and are going to make up their mind on a verdict soon. He'd better remind us a lot of the incredible guy we saw in 2012, or he's going to be convicted. If he doesn't though, his failure is going to be that he just wasn't as good as we thought he was.

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You don't even have to argue aggressively. I freely admit that statement is my attempt to hold some bit of optimism that someone can/will step up and be the guy. We all have biases that color our analysis, over sentimentality with a player is but one of them. Many of us suffered from it in the past but have had it beaten out of us. I was seriously bummed when some of the guys you mentioned went away. To this day I still think the team broke Ramsey and ruined a potential good career, and that may be completely pie in the sky on my part. I'll probably feel the same way with RG if it doesn't work out, but now I've hardened myself that when they're here, it only matters that they produce. If they don't, I can't fret over the reasons. It would please me to no end, and I know, every single fan here, for Robert to figure it out and be the guy. Then we'd spend years arguing over which of us wrote him off and which of us supported him and why the only true fans are the ones that never doubted. I'd love to be having that discussion years down the road.