If Its Not A Rebuild Its Not Going To Work

Bulldog's Twin said:

Kenard Lang in 1997 was the last #1 pick for Washington that was a DL.

But we have drafted a multitude of defensive backs early, including Bailey, Landry, Carlos Rogers and Sean Taylor.

I remember Landry as a strange pick in that we already had invested in Sean and Sean worked quite well with Ryan Clark the year before.

Carlos Rogers was not worth the #9 overall choice.

But the point again that I agree with is the team does not invest in the front line on either side of the ball in Round 1 on a regular basis, and that is unlike most clubs in the NFL.

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No, Clark had been jettisoned for Adam Archuletta. We drafted Landry because Archuletta was a complete failure.

Carlos Rogers was always under rated because he had stone hands but he was as good a CB as we've had since he left. I challenge you to name one better...D Hall is not.

Bulldog's Twin said:

But the point again that I agree with is the team does not invest in the front line on either side of the ball in Round 1 on a regular basis, and that is unlike most clubs in the NFL.

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This imo has been the real problem with the Redskins for many years now. I actually believe that the Redskins have been pretty decent at finding decent players in the mid rounds in recent years, the problem has been they've all be LBs, corners, and TEs. When you look at the Redskins draft record of the last decade or so you see that they have hardly picked any lineman on either side of the line in the higher rounds, and the ones they have picked weren't very good and seemed to be more afterthoughts than well planned picks. The good teams in contrast take lineman in the higher rounds nearly every year. Everybody loves to bag on Haz, but how many JJ Watts or Vince Worfolks has he had to work with? I actually think Haz did ok creating pressure with only second rate dlineman at his disposal his entire time here.

In the modern nfl, quarterback play is usually the single biggest factor in the success of a team. That means, if you want to be good, you have to have a good qb,you have to be able to protect that qb, and you have to be able to pressure the other team's qb. The Redskins have barely picked a lineman on either side of the ball above the third round in 10 years. I'm not sure if this is a decision handed down from the owner himself because he believes that lineman jerseys don't sell, or it's just a product of pure incompetence, but clearly it's either a case of a bad agenda or a lack of one.

I for one am so tired of hearing about the new receivers, tight ends, running backs, and linebackers the Redskins draft every year. The Redskins have plenty of players at those positions. If the Skins are serious about turning this thing around, they need to pick nothing but lineman in the top 3 rounds for the next few years, AND bring some free agent talent on the lines as well. That and they either need for RG3 to figure it out or get a new QB.

Elephant said:

No, Clark had been jettisoned for Adam Archuletta. We drafted Landry because Archuletta was a complete failure.

Carlos Rogers was always under rated because he had stone hands but he was as good a CB as we've had since he left. I challenge you to name one better...D Hall is not.

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I'm with you. Rogers got an unfair wrap around here because he dropped INTs. The key part of that is that he was at least in position to defend the pass. Part of that struggle was also apparently addressed in SF as he was required to see an eye doctor, and it on the surface appeared to make a difference. Rogers was an above average corner at the very least.

Redskins fans have forgotten that really good DBs actually contest passes, and don't just try to tackle after a reception is made. It's been so long that we've had a corner talented enough (Breeland) to contest, we are stunned when we see it. And Rogers could contest.

Haslett has himself to blame at least in part for the lack of production in his unit. He was the one that went to bat for Brian Orakpo and wanted to invest in him as part of the solution on defense. He also allowed the team to draft Trent Murphy with the #2 pick when there were huge holes in STARTING slots on his side of the ball. Gruden is an offensive coach and no doubt deferred to Haslett and the scouting department in selecting Murphy for the defense.

For a team with weaknesses in the front line and in the secondary as well as holes elsewhere on the team, investing so much cap space on Orakpo AND a high pick on the same OLB position in the draft didn't seem very smart.

Frankly, I would have put the lower tag on Orakpo and let him negotiate with other teams and then traded his rights for a #2 pick in the 2014 draft so we could move on.

Now, nobody is going to give us much of anything for Orakpo in 2015 and he is likely to leave with no compensation back to the club.

How do you truly feel about Orakpo?

Bulldog's Twin said:

Frankly, I would have put the lower tag on Orakpo and let him negotiate with other teams and then traded his rights for a #2 pick in the 2014 draft so we could move on.

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I've seen this logic thrown around before, and it is false. Transition tag, the lower one, wouldn't have given us squat. From the description:

If another club offers a contract to a transitioned player, his original club has seven days to decide whether to match that offer or not. If the original club agrees to match, the player is forced to sign with the original club at the terms agreed to in the offer by the other club. If the original club declines to match, the player signs with the other team, and the original team is offered no compensation, as they would be if the player had received the franchise tag.

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So, it wasn't just that easy, unfortunately.

Well, we could have maintained the two #1 pick tender and negotiated behind the scenes on an alternate deal for less compensation but still have moved him and been able to acquire another blue chip prospect in the draft

This team doesn't know how to move on. Parting from Haynesworth was painful, Portis remained here for an extra year or two beyond the point he was productive. Isn't that the case with Santana Moss now at 35?

Bellichick is not emotionally invested in his picks. He will trade a Logan Mankins or allow a Ty Law to leave in free agency if the money is an issue under the cap and the time is right as the player hits 30-31 and starts to move from his prime.

We don't do that. We keep guys around and continue to pay them despite declining productivity.

We buy high and sell low.

You don't make out doing that.

Actually the guy you hate was drafted 13 pick Brian orakpo was drafted as a DE in 2009. He was converted to LB a year later

we suck, we suck because we do not fit the scheme to the players we try to fit the players to the scheme, thats fine when you have a long time and resources to change everything, but we had shamahan who lied to himself as much as he lied to everyone else about what we had.

we do not draft well, we make "sweet moves" but then do nothing with them, all those trades down, how many of the extra picks resulted in starters again?

we burned three first rounders on a franchise qb with no Oline in front of him. TW is the only Olineman we have who would start on other teams.

we add playmakers which is cool, but we could have signed one of the best guards in the league for a bargain price and didnt, we could have signed a solid RT and didnt and we moved a runty weak guard inside so now he is runty weak center who wouldnt start on any other team and meanwhile we let our solid centre leave and now he starts for the broncos ffs.

we dont judge talent well, the front office sucks at finding talent we are really in deep trouble and until I see even a flash of hope im standing by that assesment.

Bulldog's Twin said:

Well, we could have maintained the two #1 pick tender and negotiated behind the scenes on an alternate deal for less compensation but still have moved him and been able to acquire another blue chip prospect in the draft

This team doesn't know how to move on. Parting from Haynesworth was painful, Portis remained here for an extra year or two beyond the point he was productive. Isn't that the case with Santana Moss now at 35?

Bellichick is not emotionally invested in his picks. He will trade a Logan Mankins or allow a Ty Law to leave in free agency if the money is an issue under the cap and the time is right as the player hits 30-31 and starts to move from his prime.

We don't do that. We keep guys around and continue to pay them despite declining productivity.

We buy high and sell low.

You don't make out doing that.

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they did have the non exclusive tag on him no team was going to give him a long term deal at the money he wanted money close to what JJ Watt got
If he had stayed healthy his career he might have got it