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Off-season: Here We Go Again

If we draft a safety with our first round pick, IMO , the draft will already be lost.

Bulldog,in another thread, stated it perfectly when he said : We haven't had a game changing defensive lineman in over a generation.

Think about that. Kenard Lang and Jarvis Jenkins....the last two Dlinemen we've drafted high in the last 20 yrs and nether one were game changers.

If we're going to go D in the first round,that's were it's gotta start,IMO ....upfront.
If we take anything but a stud OL/DL with that first pick, it's an automatic fail - and yes, I'm including taking a CB as a fail as well. Defensive line this year is supposedly very deep so I could see going either way, prioritizing the OL to shore up a weakness at RT for what, 5 or more years? and taking the best DL in the 2nd we can get or getting a stud pass rushing DL to help our pathetic secondary and hoping a quality RT falls into the 2nd.

If it were me, I'd take the stud pass rusher in the 1st since it helps two areas of need at once and go with a RT second - even if it meant I'd have to trade up from our 2nd round spot a bit.

However I think we have deeper issues and bigger fish to fry before we even get to the draft. After all, if a mediocre talent evaluator like Allen is making our picks based on reportedly poor scouting, our chances of getting any more than one, perhaps two good players just aren't good. Aside from that, there have been some serious discipline issues under Gruden and Snyder needs to stop the fanboy routine with the players. All of that crap needs to be fixed or we're going nowhere fast.

**Edit** Speaking of helping two spots at once, what do you guys think our chances are of being able to move one or more of our failures at tackle inside to guard if/when we pick up a legit starter at RT?
 
If we draft a safety with our first round pick, IMO , the draft will already be lost.

Bulldog,in another thread, stated it perfectly when he said : We haven't had a game changing defensive lineman in over a generation.

Think about that. Kenard Lang and Jarvis Jenkins....the last two Dlinemen we've drafted high in the last 20 yrs and nether one were game changers.

If we're going to go D in the first round,that's were it's gotta start,IMO ....upfront.

yup! yes! uh huh! damn straight!

the secondary has major issues - but with only one bona fide pass rusher...that d-line has been a bigger problem...IMO. as we see on our end of things.....heavy pressure on QBs leads to sacks and/or a lot of mistakes. the o-line can be upgraded with a smart FA signing or mid-round draft picks (at least in theory!!!)......we need a stud pass rusher....in fact...we need a line that can collapse the pocket quickly. if we have to spend two drafts building the trenches on both sides of the ball...so be it.

we can get our safety in the second rnd. another option is to draft a quality (prospect) CB and switch Amersun to safety.

lotta ways to roll the dice. I just hope the team has strategy....and, of course, a new DC to lead the charge :)
 
Granted a lot of good points on positions but they also need someone who can actually identify talent. Trent Kirchner of Seattle has found players way off the radar who have talent. He is open to offers.

I doubt that Todd Bowles will be available as a DC as he probably gets a Head Coach gig but he did do a lot this year without the league's greatestdefensive skill set.
 
Right on JBass. We simply don't have anyone on staff who can tell the difference between a good player with upside, and a flashy college player who doesn't translate in the NFL. I am sick of drafting players who can't play. We need for them to start and start in their first season. That at best will only probably be two players. We get one with our first pick, then target another quality player to trade up to get. This idea of trading down to amass more picks and depth on the premises that you hope half of those guys drafted will be keepers.....hasn't paid off for us. The lower we draft, the worse we do in selecting players who can play now, or have immediate upside. Our whole system of draft selection needs tossing out the window. Hope Grude can say something about it, as he has been given no power to voice anything on the defense or the draft or who his coaching assistants will be. Gruden is only empowered for his offensive experience. So folks don't need to bash him, he can't do a damn thing about it, he can only fill out the roster and the game plan. That needs to change also.

I used to laugh at J Jones for his methods, now I see where he was going with it. Once Jerry got out of the way and let the son run the draft, they use the targeting method of selecting for need even if they give up a pick to trade up to get "their guy".......has paid off for them. Conversely, the Redskins draft selection method has been to pick best available (on the theory we have multiple needs) and hope they make the squad then hope they can break the lineup..... a method that is doomed to fail. You can't just throw a bunch of bpa's in the mix and how they all come together with something resembling team chemistry. Hasn't worked for us ......ever.
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We found both Almo and Breeland in later rounds in recent years, so we haven't been completely hapless on later rounds. We've missed as much with earlier picks. But I generally agree we need better talent evaluators and not try to get cute trading down - just pick great players where we draft.
 
I stopped pretending I knew what to do to fix this ****ing clownshow a long time ago. Fish more, that my offseason plan.
 
We found both Almo and Breeland in later rounds in recent years, so we haven't been completely hapless on later rounds. We've missed as much with earlier picks. But I generally agree we need better talent evaluators and not try to get cute trading down - just pick great players where we draft.

and not do stupid stuff like we did with the final 3 selections in the 2014 draft. those were all..."eh...if it doesn't work out...who cares" decisions IMO.
 
Conversely, the Redskins draft selection method has been to pick best available (on the theory we have multiple needs) and hope they make the squad then hope they can break the lineup..... a method that is doomed to fail. You can't just throw a bunch of bpa's in the mix and how they all come together with something resembling team chemistry. Hasn't worked for us ......ever.
Wrong answer. Drafting for need only works if the two players you're considering grade out about the same. Over time, consistently taking player A with a 90 grade because of need instead of player B with a 95 grade will result in a less talented roster compared to your opponents. In the meantime player B that you didn't need last season might be a position of need this season due to injury, contract/cap issues, draft busts, etc. All the hoopla over us drafting Cap'n Kirk after taking RGIII is a good example of this. Safety is another one. With the death of S. Taylor and Landry being a bust, we went from stacked at safety to lousy pretty quickly.

Our primary issue is correctly identifying good/great players and a failure to develop them well, if at all. One of the things that made Gibbs/Beathard so great was that Beathard could consistently spot good players that fit our schemes and Gibbs and Co. could tweak the schemes when/if necessary to fit the players we had AND teach them what they're supposed to be doing so that we consistently fielded fundamentally sound teams.
 
Wrong answer. Drafting for need only works if the two players you're considering grade out about the same. Over time, consistently taking player A with a 90 grade because of need instead of player B with a 95 grade will result in a less talented roster compared to your opponents. In the meantime player B that you didn't need last season might be a position of need this season due to injury, contract/cap issues, draft busts, etc. All the hoopla over us drafting Cap'n Kirk after taking RGIII is a good example of this. Safety is another one. With the death of S. Taylor and Landry being a bust, we went from stacked at safety to lousy pretty quickly.

Our primary issue is correctly identifying good/great players and a failure to develop them well, if at all. One of the things that made Gibbs/Beathard so great was that Beathard could consistently spot good players that fit our schemes and Gibbs and Co. could tweak the schemes when/if necessary to fit the players we had AND teach them what they're supposed to be doing so that we consistently fielded fundamentally sound teams.

Also, when the Redskins drafted Sean Taylor, there was discussion about would they draft Taylor or Winslow. Either way, they were getting an instant impact player, and we know how Gibbs loved offense. Taylor was considered slightly better, they drafted him and passed on a stud tight end. They end up drafting Cooley in the 3rd round. As it turned out, Winslow never lived up to the hype, and Cooley had a pretty good career. The point being, you take the best player you can get, within certain limits. The Redskins have so many holes, picking as high as they are picking, they should have a lot of choices to get impact players. If you are so stuck on getting a player at position x, then you might pass on great players to pick a player of lesser talent to fit a roster spot.
 
Going BPA is why we've only taken two Dlineman high in 20 yrs and three Olinemen high in 15 yrs.

Priorities need to change in draft philosophy.
 
Bleacher report of all places is saying that this article refers to Rex Ryan saying he isn't going to be a DC in 2015. I couldn't find any quotes. I don't think Gruden could handle Rex as his DC and I'm firmly against it.. But I thought I'd share since I've seen several references to Rex being a good idea for our DC. I scanned Cimini's twitter posts too but never saw any reference to this assumption. Makes sense though, after being a head coach in NYC of all places, itd be a hard pill for him to swallow stepping back in a shadow behind a head coach who he undoubtedly would think he was better than. He is afterall... a Ryan.

http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2313309-washington-redskins-2015-offseason-to-do-list

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/sto...clean-house-fire-gm-john-idzik-coach-rex-ryan
 
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Going BPA is why we've only taken two Dlineman high in 20 yrs and three Olinemen high in 15 yrs.

Priorities need to change in draft philosophy.
I partially agree. I find it hard to believe that in that timeframe D or O linemen weren't the BPA more often than we picked them. We just didn't/don't value or prioritize those positions like we should have. Given all the years Snyder was meddling and his growing up as a fan during the years of the Hogs' dominance and hoopla as well as the effect guys like Butz, Manley and Mann had on our defense you'd think it would be otherwise. I mean for Peete's sake, probably the two biggest plays in Skins history, the pick six by Grant caused by Manley's tipped pass against the turds and Riggins' run in the Super Bowl relate directly to the lines. Hell, I just got goosebumps again just thinking about those two plays.

For all of Al Davis' faults, he always drafted players based on what he knew to have worked in the past, even though he didn't recognize how the league had changed. It's amazing to me that Snyder didn't get the memo on that concept.
 
Mann was a 3rd rounder
Manley was a 5th
Grant a 9th Would be an UDFA today.

All were great/good Redskins. None were truly great players.

Mann had the best overall game.
Manley was the best pass rusher.
Grant wouldn't start for a lot of teams.

But they played for a great coach in Petitbon.

Edit: Butz was worth it in the end, but todays fanbase would lose it's friggin mind if we traded two 1st's for a run stopping DT.
 
Look folks, BPA is often subjective.

Just because one guy racks up numbers in college like Trent Murphy doesn't mean he is going to be a better pro than a UDFA like James Harrison.

When you are picking in the top couple of rounds the grades are often pretty close so it does come down to what a team needs.

If you are the Cowboys and picking in the first round in 2015 I doubt they are going to select OL again.

Instead they are going to most likely address the defense.

Again, a likely choice between two highly ranked players.
 

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