• Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.

MMQB:Any Sense of Stability is Sacrificed

We need to get past this being an either/or deal ... EITHER they wanted Robert to be a read-option quarterback OR they wanted a pocket passer. Does anyone here believe that was ever anyone's plan going in?

Whoever in the organization--be it Mike or Bruce or The Dan or some combo thereof--that drove the Griffin acquisition believed that he'd be able to develop basic NFL pocket passing skills to go along with this freakish athleticism. Three years in, the evidence is overwhelming that Robert has not developed the pocket passing part of it to the extent you'd expect a third-year player. And it's landed him on the bench, where he'll justifiably (my opinion) remain on this or any other team until he shows he can handle the basics of an NFL passing offense.

I think if we could remove this cost, emotion and burgundy and gold factors from the topic, there would be little disagreement?
 
MikeSr619 said:
wow...is this where the site is today?

Not that I am complaining, but if we are just all doom and gloom I'll just come back on Sunday and see what chat brings.
Click to expand...

Hey, you wanted me to come back. Here I am. :)

I do have to ask ... at 3-10 for the second year in a row ... where do you expect the site to be today?
 
Henry said:
Hey, you wanted me to come back. Here I am. :)

I do have to ask ... at 3-10 for the second year in a row ... where do you expect the site to be today?
Click to expand...

Since when do I ever know what I really want?!!

I get it...to a point. But some of this is just over the top and looking for any reason (real or not) to be doom and gloom. I don't get doom and gloom for the sake of doom and gloom.
















doom and gloom
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
Well let's see. There is Gruden this year and in the previous offseason and camp.

Then there is Kyle Shanahan for 2 years as well.

Griffin's success in 2012 was based on the Shanahans view that Griffin was not going to adapt readily to a traditional pro style offense.

So they created a hybrid where Griffin would challenge teams on the edge and run a pass offense that provided for a single read and few audibles.

When Griffin asked to do more from the pocket in 2013 and turn away from the previous scheme it was as if the Lightning was removed from the sky.

No longer being asked to read only half the field on a given play Griffin now had to read the entire defense and go through progressions while dropping back.

He can't do that very well. And his footwork is atrocious.

Don't believe me. Jaworski broke down the film on Griffin's passes in 2013 and came to the conclusion his failure to set and throw properly was a major cause of his problems.

No doubt Gruden saw the same things in camp, the preseason and during his starts in 2014.
Click to expand...

Right his footwork was terrible coming off the injury, yet according to O Shea and "inside dish" the Shanahans basically ignored working on his footwork. griffin could have done it himself but evaluating your own form is REALLY hard to do. That one is on his coaches.
 
I gotta say, if Griffin right now is a read/option dude, you run the read/option. Then you work in the rest. That's what they've done with Wilson and Kaepernick and everyone thinks they're just awesome.

Griffin may never develop into a pocket passer. He may never have even under perfect conditions. But his situation has been so badly butchered we'll now never know. And that's inexcusable.
 
MikeSr619 said:
Since when do I ever know what I really want?!!

I get it...to a point. But some of this is just over the top and looking for any reason (real or not) to be doom and gloom. I don't get doom and gloom for the sake of doom and gloom.
















doom and gloom
Click to expand...

I am so infested with it right now Mike that I literally can't find a thing to be positive about other than it being close to the end of the season.
 
Henry said:
I gotta say, if Griffin right now is a read/option dude, you run the read/option. Then you work in the rest. That's what they've done with Wilson and Kaepernick and everyone thinks they're just awesome.

Griffin may never develop into a pocket passer. He may never have even under perfect conditions. But his situation has been so badly butchered we'll now never know. And that's inexcusable.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding Ding!! Give this man the $50 prize!
 
Did you guys see the results the few times Robert tried the read/option this year?

Not absolving Jay here, by the way. Could he have kept trying to run it, even if it was producing nothing? Maybe. Maybe it would have gotten better. But unlike some of you hombres, I'm okay conceding that maybe Jay and Sean and the other coaches saw enough, not just on Sundays but every other day of the week since minicamps, to have made the decision to sit Robert not seem like gross incompetence and a fireable offense for a rookie head coach who inherited one of the worst-run franchises in professional sports.
 
Henry said:
I gotta say, if Griffin right now is a read/option dude, you run the read/option. Then you work in the rest. That's what they've done with Wilson and Kaepernick and everyone thinks they're just awesome.

Griffin may never develop into a pocket passer. He may never have even under perfect conditions. But his situation has been so badly butchered we'll now never know. And that's inexcusable.
Click to expand...

Pocket passing, to me, is for people like Peyton and Brady who have no legs. Rolling out, or even scrambling until something develops is what a lot of these guys (including Romo and Rodgers) do and it works for them and the teams. We have people like Randall Cobb and Jordy Nelson becoming household names due to their ability to move around back there.
 
Om said:
Did you guys see the results the few times Robert tried the read/option this year?

Not absolving Jay here, by the way. Could he have kept trying to run it, even if it was producing nothing? Maybe. Maybe it would have gotten better. But unlike some of you hombres, I'm okay conceding that maybe Jay and Sean and the other coaches saw enough, not just on Sundays but every other day of the week since minicamps, to have made the decision to sit Robert not seem like gross incompetence and a fireable offense for a rookie head coach who inherited one of the worst-run franchises in professional sports.
Click to expand...

Two things:

1. Our offensive line is the same so without protection that last longer than 2.3 seconds it honestly doesn't matter much what system we run. So in that sense Gruden and Griffin were both doomed to failure this year.

That said the square pg round hole thing is stunningly stupid, and foolish as Gruden himself called it.

2. Griffin is OBVIOUSLY damaged goods mentally. Who knows if it's even repairable at this point but a good line and a coach who has his back and coaches to his strengths would be profoundly positive. he holds on to the ball so long because (IMO) he's afarid to mess up and afraid to take a chance on being injured again. I think that aspect is significant and overlooked by many.
 
Not sure I really know where you're coming from with Robert, brother. Is it fair to say you put most of the blame for his struggles with footwork and reading defenses pre- and post-snap on the line and coaching?

I think those are definitely factors, but as I tried to say in another thread a few days ago, I put a much larger percentage of the onus on the man himself. B

Being QB of an NFL team is HARD--mentally and physically. I'm not convinced his mental toughness is where it's needed to be yet. I'm hoping like hell that either I'm wrong or it shows up between now and the time next spring he may find himself fighting for a starting job.
 
Henry said:
I gotta say, if Griffin right now is a read/option dude, you run the read/option. Then you work in the rest. That's what they've done with Wilson and Kaepernick and everyone thinks they're just awesome.

Griffin may never develop into a pocket passer. He may never have even under perfect conditions. But his situation has been so badly butchered we'll now never know. And that's inexcusable.
Click to expand...

but to your point, SF and Seattle weren't a R/O based system first. They were power running / suffocating defense. Look at who the QBs were BEFORE those mobile qbs... Alex Smith and Matt Hasselbeck. Both pocket passing QBs. Kap and Wilson came into those style offenses and were able to execute them, then adding R/O to ACCENT the system, not as a base.
 
We have abandoned the run game as well as any and all read option.


Can anyone tell me what style of offense we run?
 
I think everyone is overthinking it a little bit. No ..... way overthinking it.

Let's make it real simple. Year #1, 2012, we tailor an offense to suit Griffin's skill set. Very quickly we find out Robert cannot slide. We have a QB that was either never taught to slide, or simply cannot grasp how to do it. something very simple as sliding, our "superman" QB can't do it. I was totally shocked when that occurred but chose to overlook it as inconsequential.

Guess what, it was very telling as to what Griffin's limitations were. It was the tip of the iceberg. He either was never taught how to play proper quarterback, or simply cannot grasp it. Can't read secondaries, will take off and run at the slightest pressure, does not take ownership of his mechanics, and most telling now.......maybe he never put the work in.
 
MikeSr619 said:
We have abandoned the run game as well as any and all read option.


Can anyone tell me what style of offense we run?
Click to expand...

THAT I agree is a problem. Morris can't only carry the ball 8 times for 6 yards
 
MikeSr619 said:
We have abandoned the run game as well as any and all read option.


Can anyone tell me what style of offense we run?
Click to expand...

Piss poor. I'm not entirely convinced Gruden even has a scheme.

Nick
 
SilentThreat said:
but to your point, SF and Seattle weren't a R/O based system first. They were power running / suffocating defense. Look at who the QBs were BEFORE those mobile qbs... Alex Smith and Matt Hasselbeck. Both pocket passing QBs. Kap and Wilson came into those style offenses and were able to execute them, then adding R/O to ACCENT the system, not as a base.
Click to expand...

Yes, my point. The systems were adapted to the strengths of the QB. Seattle in particular tried to start Wilson off as a pure pocket guy, and when he struggled they added the read/option. Now he's super-awesome and fun at parties.

I don't know if Griffin is done or not. At this point we just have to trust Gruden, who in my opinion appears to be bumbling through the season like a ... well like a guy who's never been a coach before as opposed to an experienced and/or skilled technician. Forgive me, my faith in Gruden isn't exactly all that high at the moment, but I guess we have no choice but to let him make these calls.

Must've been a hell of an interview.
 
The more I think about it, the more I think we were really hoping for Luck when we traded up to #2, then proclaimed to the world that we would be just as happy with either quarterback.

Having said that, I think the Redskins and the fans were dupped. Scammed, we all thought we were seeing something else. Hey, he's a heisman winner, no way he can be bad. Man, the pretty girls get all the dates because we see something that is not there.
 
micks113 said:
I think everyone is overthinking it a little bit. No ..... way overthinking it.

Let's make it real simple. Year #1, 2012, we tailor an offense to suit Griffin's skill set. Very quickly we find out Robert cannot slide. We have a QB that was either never taught to slide, or simply cannot grasp how to do it. something very simple as sliding, our "superman" QB can't do it. I was totally shocked when that occurred but chose to overlook it as inconsequential.

Guess what, it was very telling as to what Griffin's limitations were. It was the tip of the iceberg. He either was never taught how to play proper quarterback, or simply cannot grasp it. Can't read secondaries, will take off and run at the slightest pressure, does not take ownership of his mechanics, and most telling now.......maybe he never put the work in.
Click to expand...

sorry, but this whole "slide thing" has been blown way out of proportion. His main problem was taking the big hits instead of learning to avoid them. There are lots of quarterbacks who cant slide. Its always a funny laugh out of the commentators when it happens yet because Griffin hurt his knee by a VERY big Ngata who is agile and strong as **** he now suddenly cant slide.

Guess what? He slid this year just fine. He ran out of bounds instead of trying for the big hit unless it was to try and get something going.
 
Om said:
Not sure I really know where you're coming from with Robert, brother. Is it fair to say you put most of the blame for his struggles with footwork and reading defenses pre- and post-snap on the line and coaching?

I think those are definitely factors, but as I tried to say in another thread a few days ago, I put a much larger percentage of the onus on the man himself. B

Being QB of an NFL team is HARD--mentally and physically. I'm not convinced his mental toughness is where it's needed to be yet. I'm hoping like hell that either I'm wrong or it shows up between now and the time next spring he may find himself fighting for a starting job.
Click to expand...

Yep that's fair to say. That's pretty much my stance. Let me be clear. I don't consider Griffin faultless, and I agree his mental toughness isn't where it needs to be (then again as much crap as he takes nationwide maybe it is), I just think his current state of mind and comfort level is a direct reflection of the line and protection he's had. He was decisive, accurate and deadly two years ago in a system suited to his strengths. We never heard a lick about lack of prep, or intellectual laziness, or being soft or having ego problems. That all came later. So yea I put it on the coaching he's received since he blew out his knee.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 1, Members: 0, Guests: 1)

Help Users
As we enjoy today's conversations, let's remember our dear friends 'Docsandy', Sandy Zier-Teitler, and 'Posse Lover', Michael Huffman, who would dearly love to be here with us today! We love and miss you guys ❤

You haven't joined any rooms.

    You haven't joined any rooms.
    Top