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Skinscast - 'Hopeless'

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At 3-10, the rumors suggest the head coach and owner are at odds over the backup quarterback. And the signs are pointing to another Redskins reset.But the thought of another fresh start feels more like a road-to-nowhere.This week, Pappas uses the opening monologue to present an accurate state-of-affairs of the current Redskins’ situation. He explains [...]

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I really encourage you all to listen to the latest Skinscast episode 'Hopeless'. I don't think I've read or heard anything that so perfectly summarizes what is going on with this franchise and how I feel about it. I have to give my friend John Pappas major kudos, he knocks it out of the park here. I met John and did ES coverage with him in the early days and he has come such a long way. This piece is some of the best analysis of our team's situation I have heard out there.
 
I totally disagree with him on about half of what he said. Gruden is worthless. Firing coaches for no reason? It's not just the QB, the WHOLE team is a mess, not a SINGLE thing has improved, in fact many things across the board are worse.
 
Uhhh....okay CT...
 
I think many of us have made our positions clear bro, no need to go list what I've been posting in about 3 different threads the last several days. I can agree that the FO is a mess but he's giving a free pass to Gruden IMO and I can't do that.
 
Also, how long should an owner sit by and watch his team play like complete dogcrap before he or the GM starts giving the coach grief?
 
CounterTrey said:
I think many of us have made our positions clear bro, no need to go list what I've been posting in about 3 different threads the last several days. I can agree that the FO is a mess but he's giving a free pass to Gruden IMO and I can't do that.
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I don't know what you've posted or what you're saying. But if you want to do a drive-by that's fine too. I didn't hear Pappas give Gruden a free pass - he's just focusing on what's obviously a clear conflict and power struggle in play as we speak, and he's laying blame where it belongs. You don't hire a head coach and then put barriers in the way of him when he sees football decisions differently than 'the owner' (what are HIS qualifications to determine who should play QB for the Skins?). Well, actually, you do if you own the Redskins. This shit has been going on since Gibbs left. Snyder played games with Zorn (not that it would've mattered), he absolutely played ****-**** with the Shanahans, and now he's doing it with Gruden.

I have total scorn for the WAY that Gruden has managed the QB position and see zero improvement in this team anywhere. But he is the head coach (and a rookie NFL head coach at that). If you have zero faith in his judgment, football knowledge, and instincts, why did you hire him? Makes no sense.
 
CounterTrey said:
Also, how long should an owner sit by and watch his team play like complete dogcrap before he or the GM starts giving the coach grief?
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They aren't 'giving the coach grief' imho - they are likely directly trying to undermine and subvert his decision-making and authority over football decisions. There's a big difference. And to answer your question - as long as it takes - this team has been playing like complete dogcrap for a hell of a long time CT, and that cannot be laid at the feet of Jay Gruden, sorry. Given the choice to believe that Snyder and Allen know what to do vs. Jay Gruden knowing what to do - sorry, but even my little faith in Gruden dwarfs any faith in them.
 
I can see reasons for people to be pissed at Gruden.

But Dan Snyder making the coaching decisions? Please God, anything but that.
 
Looks like we have our football version of tricameralism at BGO. Who sides with the franchise QB? The coach? The GM?

What a mess.
 
If things weren't such a complete clusterfudge I could go along with that sentiment Boone but as bad as they are right now, just keeping and backing Gruden for continuity's sake makes no more sense to me. I want the entire coaching staff fired. Myabe that's not fair to some guys but wipe the slate clean, hire a GM then let HIM hire his coach and then GTFO the way. I don't want our owner making coaching decisions either but as far as we know it's the GM who has directed or put pressure on Gruden, by all accounts Allen is pretty peeved. And Griffin is his guy so that makes sense. Whether Allen is out of line I'm not sure yet but I have seen enough of Gruden to know that someone ought to have chewed his ass out by now for some of this bush league petty crap that has hurt the team immensely.

And again if you say doing something would be foolish and then you do EXACTLY that I have no room for you as the coach of my beloved team. If I'm paying you 4 million a year and this is what I'm getting then darnit you're gonna hear from SOMEBODY.
 
And CT - one of the points I think Pappas nailed is the extent to which Snyder is losing this fanbase. I can tell you, I am perilously close to ending my relationship with this franchise. I don't really care what anyone thinks of my 'fandom'. I've all but bled for this team for most of my life, but even I have my limits. I don't think I'm alone. In fact, I think there are more real fans who feel as I do than there are continuing to believe in the absence of any evidence they should. And I blame Daniel Snyder for it. I wish he didn't exist.
 
If I had a dollar for every time Snyder was losing or has lost this fan base (myself included), well you know the rest.

Anybody else mail in their fan card at the end of the Vinny Show?
 
Boone said:
And CT - one of the points I think Pappas nailed is the extent to which Snyder is losing this fanbase. I can tell you, I am perilously close to ending my relationship with this franchise. I don't really care what anyone thinks of my 'fandom'. I've all but bled for this team for most of my life, but even I have my limits. I don't think I'm alone. In fact, I think there are more real fans who feel as I do than there are continuing to believe in the absence of any evidence they should. And I blame Daniel Snyder for it. I wish he didn't exist.
Click to expand...

Yea that's in the half I agreed with. I've already firmly decided I'm not renewing my season tix and I won't be spending a dime on this team until/unless things turn around. Gameday next year for the first time in my adult life is going to be an optional thing for me. I can see me spending time on other things on Sundays, especially in the Fall. So I'm with ya there.

edit: Oh and this isn't a boycott which I think would be a waste of time since they have so much corporate ticket sales support, I just feel like a jackass with the blind loyalty I keep showing them year after year after year. It's literally enabling, plus folks here in Ohio don't mess with me anymore they just kind of shake their heads in sympathy...fans of Ohio teams that have sucked basically forever.

Sigh....
 
A bunch of "if this is happening" or "it suggests" blahblah BS. Nobody knows the facts of what is, or is not happening between owner-GM-coach. Nobody. But most are ready to pounce on the cripple (Snyder) because, well, he's the easiest target. Most people conveniently focus on Snyder's tenure, as it is most recent. Understandable. But lazy, and flawed. As much as it pains me to post an article from the Washington Pissed. People could use a history lesson around here.

Here are the 10 worst Redskins seasons of all time - The Washington Post

Snyder was around for 1 (2013). During a time he gave up all power to Shamaham.
And now possibly 2 (2014), where until proven otherwise (proven, not suggested, or insinuated) has given control to a GM, and the coach.

Fans today have it far better than those from the 50's and 60's did.

Suck it up, boys and girls.
 
That's ridiculous Ax. We have known history of the kind of owner we have and how he 'handles' things. That's not made up - we've had numerous well-documented instances of his dysfunctional management style. And when you have the head coach on a Monday carve up Griffin like a Thanksgiving turkey and bench him, and then by Wednesday the media is citing 'Griffin may start again this season' - who exactly do you think that's coming from? If you think the Redskins record over the past 20 years is acceptable, at any level, and that Dan Snyder doesn't 100% own responsibility for the joke of a team we root for, I don't even know how to respond to that. The 'it could be worse' argument won't wash much longer, because we are rapidly reaching a point where it's clear, no, it cannot be worse. Sorry brother, but I reject every word of what you wrote. And btw - I think we're all aware of Redskins 'history' :)
 
Can't argue that the circumstantial evidence doesn't exist considering Snyder's PAST.

I can't convict him of improper meddling, this time, without some proof. To my knowledge, none exists yet. We will find out in a few weeks.

And yes, 20yrs of this is hard to take. At least you acknowledge that it started before Snyder was in the picture.

The history simply proves, that this organizations long stretches of suck, are not exclusive to Snyder. And that's not to defend him. It's just a fact.
 
For the past several years, I've felt like a German villager, circa 1943, living on the outskirts of Auschwitz. I keep trying to convince myself that those flakes that drift down daily and coat everything within sight really are snow.

But deep down, I know that there's only one possible truth.
 
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