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First off, I would like to say that I love what I see here at BGO. I am very happy that I happened to be looking for a Redskins chat group the day I was and found you guys on the tap-a-talk
app. My life has since improved, so I thank you all.
So, I've never been much of a chat forum chatter because I'm not so computer literate, I'm type A, and I think I'm smarter than I really am, so mostly over the years I've been a reader.
I also have never started a thread in any forum ever, but I think I have a good idea for one, however I think I'd need some help to put the "OP?" together. I ran the idea by Mr. Om and he
said I could try to put it together. I'll need much input and participation from many members here, but I think this could be a great challenge for us all to try to get to the core of the matrix.
I hope this can be a thread where everyone can maybe not so much dissect the problems as much as seek out the solutions for our beloved franchise. Mr. servenumtuum!! I've read and
enjoyed many of your posts while in my short tenure here and "The Godfather" himself told me you are a well researched man(which I believe), so I'm going to ask you first(since we also
go way back and all) to help us get something going.
Here's the idea:
We know we have a dysfunctional franchise with issues across the board, starting from the dark lord sauron himself(Snyder) down to the water boys and parking lot attendants.
Many(including me) believe if some changes were made in the decision making departments we would improve.
So my thread idea is a challenge to not only figure out where the changes should start first, but to:
(1) Look deeper at what makes some of the other teams competitive year in and year out.
(2) Look at some teams who seemed to have turned a corner quasi recently from a competitive drought so to speak.
(3) Find out what has happened to some teams that have caused their recent downfall.
(4) Last but not least, look at the teams who are consistently bad and see if we see a pattern here as well.
There are many factors for each of the above groups, so I think we will start from the top.
Group A: The perennial contenders:
How are the teams who are year in and year out competitive, structured, front office wise?(The same as the bad teams , but with better minds?)
Do they promote from within?(or bring in Bob Slidell when Lumberg thinks his staff needs some tweaking)
How long have their staffs been together?
If parts of their staff are hired away, how are they(and where are they finding) replacements for said people?
What rounds are they drafting players at certain positions in?(what process are they going through to determine their choices?)
Does the team itself seem to always have great or above average players at certain positions?(team identity)
What is the ratio of FA acquisitions to drafted and or undrafted(home grown) players?
Do players tend to stay with the team for long years(more than first contract) more so there than other teams?
How are their facilities and team doctors ranked compared to the rest of the league?
Is the HC also the GM, or at least very influential in the GM duties?
I'm sure there is more but that's a good start is think.
My contenders list I'd analyze: (For the record I think these are the top franchises in the league in the order they are typed)
Packers - Had Favre and the Rodgers that we should've taken that year...
Patriots - They have Annapolis' own "Bed check Billy" and a story of a man named Brady, but wait there's more...
Steelers - It cant be just using head and shoulders ya know
Ravens - Ozzie doesn't do it all does he?
Broncos - Manning cant have all the credit can he?
Cardinals - Ever since they let the bears off the hook...
Colts - Manning to luck cant be the only recipe can it?
Eagles - Andy to Chip seems like a perfect switch over so far
Chargers? - boarder liner here, but from Marty ball to Norv to the young guy they have now they seem to always be in the mix
Now its a one word easy answer for some of the above teams on why they are competitive or great every year, but I think wed like to dig a bit deeper into breaking down their DNAs to
find out what they are doing that others aren't.
Group B: The corner turners:
When did they turn the corner after years of sucktitude?
Was it a clean house all together, or a coaching change, or a monster player acquisition(s)?
Did they change from one or no identity to an identity?(stadium, players, uniforms, city, name, from an offensive to defensive heavy scheme(or verse visa))
Are the people in the FO the same people that were there during the dark ages?
Is there a pattern of draft picks that have led to the turn arounds for said teams?
Are they well on their way to joining the above list of teams, the way they are going now?
I'm sure there's more to ponder...
Corner turner list:
Seahawks - USC troubles for Pete Carroll led to a ring but is it all his baby?
49ers - Did Harbaugh do with the 49ers(singletary) what ("this guy") Jon Gruden did for the Bucs(Dungy)?... win with a team already built to succeed or...
Saints - Sean Peyton decision on NO and Breese all it took after the storm?
Lions - Finally draft the correct WR?
Bengals - Did Marvin Lewis tell Brown, "look, if you want us to win, stop bringing in every criminal in the league and being cheap to boot, and lets do this the right way, or fire me?"
Question marks/boarder liners:
Cowboys - Dear God I hope this is temporary
Dolphins - All you need is a team bully I guess
Chiefs - My wife says Andy Reid looks like the main "angry bird"
Texans - After Matt Schaubs collapse, the guy that took over for Joe Pa is looking pretty good, and they have JJ Watt too.
Rams - Love Fisher, wish we got him TBH
Group C: Recently fell from the iron throne:
Was their coach hired away(retire)?
Did they lose long time FO personnel to another team/company?
Did the owner change?
Did they try to bite off more then they could chew(get greedy)?
Did they lose a player(s) of high value(for one reason or another) and have no plan or way to replace them?
Did they hold on to a player(s) for too long?
Was their salary cap all jacked up?
Did they change their draft philosophy and it ended up working against them?
Did they experience a run of bad luck with injuries, and officiating, and draft picks, and, or busts?
Did they simply get stale and not get with the times while the rest of their division improved?
Again I'm sure there's more questions...
The list:
Giants - Reese was a genius, now Coughlen doesn't have IT any more? What happened to all the early round D linemen?
Falcons - Over reach in the draft for Julio starting to bite back? Cory Biermans wife a distraction?
Bears - Sometimes they look like they're the shit, and sometimes they seem to be the toilet paper.
Jets - Shouldn't have messed with Tim Tebow... God didn't appreciate that.
Panthers? - From the river boat to the SS mino
Aaaaaaand guess where we(redskins) fit in...
That's right.
Group D: The consistently bad teams:
Do they ignore evolutionary trends(passing league...)?
Who's really in charge over there?
Does anyone ever get fired?
Do they fire people to fast?
Do they hire unqualified people?
Do players resign there?
Do players talk trash about them when they leave there?
Do they draft completely different and or approach free agency different then the good teams?
Are they in a bad market?
Is the owner cheap?
Are they on the precipice of relocation often, or is it often a topic they are brought up in?
(Lack of local support)
Are fans not showing up?(ditto above)
Do they experience more(lingering) injuries than other teams?(poor medical staff)
Is there internal chaos?
Do they seem to have more head cases(guys getting in trouble) then other teams?
We could go on for days with questions like these for our team alone so I think we can start there.
The door mats:
Redskins - Long ago, in a land far away, they were good
Vikings - Dennis Green should have had Randle Cunningham kneel late against ATL?
Buccaneers - They've had more coaches than we have the last 6 years...
Bills - Starting Rob Johnson over Flutie curse?
Browns(could be in category 2 though) - Born again franchise hasn't yet put it all together.
Titans - Fisher didn't get them a SB W but man, sometime you gotta let a good coach stick around like Cower.
Raiders - I wish they were good, the league is better when they are. Did the apple in Al's eye fall too far from the tree?
Jaguars - Will we see "The Wrath of Khan" soon?
I'd say a good place to start the research timeline would be somewhere about 1998 maybe?
That I believe is right around the time of young Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, Dan Snyder/Vinny C era beginning, Marshal Faulk changing the position, Big Tuna in Big D, enter the Belechick,
32 teams and re elignment(scheduling change), split back fields, more 3/4 Ds, and Roger Goodell and his rule changes favoring certain things.
Some teams have been obviously better then others adapting to the evolutionary trends. Some teams are spinning wheels("got mud in they tires").
I will most likely try to use profootballreference.com for most of my research but if there's another source just write website down on a Washington times, roll it up and back slap me with it.
Or you could just type it here
I figure there must be some who are good at finding info faster then I could, because they know where to look(serv?).
As well as hope this could possibly be a project thread for all to join in on and
might help everyone understand what's really going on.
Aaaand with the Redskins playing so, you know, below average expectation level and all, as of late, maybe this can be a bit of fresh air, a home work assignment to take our minds
elsewhere for a bit, no?
And answer my 23 year question?:
How is it the same NFL teams are always playing chess, but it seems that we are content enough playing hungry hungry hippos?
PS: I really tried to add bold and italicized and colored print to not make this look like a 10,000 piece puzzle dumped over but it just gave me weird shapes and coding or something. my bad.
PS part 2: If you're still awake sorry I made this so long. And if this can be edited please educate me.
HTTR
app. My life has since improved, so I thank you all.
So, I've never been much of a chat forum chatter because I'm not so computer literate, I'm type A, and I think I'm smarter than I really am, so mostly over the years I've been a reader.
I also have never started a thread in any forum ever, but I think I have a good idea for one, however I think I'd need some help to put the "OP?" together. I ran the idea by Mr. Om and he
said I could try to put it together. I'll need much input and participation from many members here, but I think this could be a great challenge for us all to try to get to the core of the matrix.
I hope this can be a thread where everyone can maybe not so much dissect the problems as much as seek out the solutions for our beloved franchise. Mr. servenumtuum!! I've read and
enjoyed many of your posts while in my short tenure here and "The Godfather" himself told me you are a well researched man(which I believe), so I'm going to ask you first(since we also
go way back and all) to help us get something going.
Here's the idea:
We know we have a dysfunctional franchise with issues across the board, starting from the dark lord sauron himself(Snyder) down to the water boys and parking lot attendants.
Many(including me) believe if some changes were made in the decision making departments we would improve.
So my thread idea is a challenge to not only figure out where the changes should start first, but to:
(1) Look deeper at what makes some of the other teams competitive year in and year out.
(2) Look at some teams who seemed to have turned a corner quasi recently from a competitive drought so to speak.
(3) Find out what has happened to some teams that have caused their recent downfall.
(4) Last but not least, look at the teams who are consistently bad and see if we see a pattern here as well.
There are many factors for each of the above groups, so I think we will start from the top.
Group A: The perennial contenders:
How are the teams who are year in and year out competitive, structured, front office wise?(The same as the bad teams , but with better minds?)
Do they promote from within?(or bring in Bob Slidell when Lumberg thinks his staff needs some tweaking)
How long have their staffs been together?
If parts of their staff are hired away, how are they(and where are they finding) replacements for said people?
What rounds are they drafting players at certain positions in?(what process are they going through to determine their choices?)
Does the team itself seem to always have great or above average players at certain positions?(team identity)
What is the ratio of FA acquisitions to drafted and or undrafted(home grown) players?
Do players tend to stay with the team for long years(more than first contract) more so there than other teams?
How are their facilities and team doctors ranked compared to the rest of the league?
Is the HC also the GM, or at least very influential in the GM duties?
I'm sure there is more but that's a good start is think.
My contenders list I'd analyze: (For the record I think these are the top franchises in the league in the order they are typed)
Packers - Had Favre and the Rodgers that we should've taken that year...
Patriots - They have Annapolis' own "Bed check Billy" and a story of a man named Brady, but wait there's more...
Steelers - It cant be just using head and shoulders ya know
Ravens - Ozzie doesn't do it all does he?
Broncos - Manning cant have all the credit can he?
Cardinals - Ever since they let the bears off the hook...
Colts - Manning to luck cant be the only recipe can it?
Eagles - Andy to Chip seems like a perfect switch over so far
Chargers? - boarder liner here, but from Marty ball to Norv to the young guy they have now they seem to always be in the mix
Now its a one word easy answer for some of the above teams on why they are competitive or great every year, but I think wed like to dig a bit deeper into breaking down their DNAs to
find out what they are doing that others aren't.
Group B: The corner turners:
When did they turn the corner after years of sucktitude?
Was it a clean house all together, or a coaching change, or a monster player acquisition(s)?
Did they change from one or no identity to an identity?(stadium, players, uniforms, city, name, from an offensive to defensive heavy scheme(or verse visa))
Are the people in the FO the same people that were there during the dark ages?
Is there a pattern of draft picks that have led to the turn arounds for said teams?
Are they well on their way to joining the above list of teams, the way they are going now?
I'm sure there's more to ponder...
Corner turner list:
Seahawks - USC troubles for Pete Carroll led to a ring but is it all his baby?
49ers - Did Harbaugh do with the 49ers(singletary) what ("this guy") Jon Gruden did for the Bucs(Dungy)?... win with a team already built to succeed or...
Saints - Sean Peyton decision on NO and Breese all it took after the storm?
Lions - Finally draft the correct WR?
Bengals - Did Marvin Lewis tell Brown, "look, if you want us to win, stop bringing in every criminal in the league and being cheap to boot, and lets do this the right way, or fire me?"
Question marks/boarder liners:
Cowboys - Dear God I hope this is temporary
Dolphins - All you need is a team bully I guess
Chiefs - My wife says Andy Reid looks like the main "angry bird"
Texans - After Matt Schaubs collapse, the guy that took over for Joe Pa is looking pretty good, and they have JJ Watt too.
Rams - Love Fisher, wish we got him TBH
Group C: Recently fell from the iron throne:
Was their coach hired away(retire)?
Did they lose long time FO personnel to another team/company?
Did the owner change?
Did they try to bite off more then they could chew(get greedy)?
Did they lose a player(s) of high value(for one reason or another) and have no plan or way to replace them?
Did they hold on to a player(s) for too long?
Was their salary cap all jacked up?
Did they change their draft philosophy and it ended up working against them?
Did they experience a run of bad luck with injuries, and officiating, and draft picks, and, or busts?
Did they simply get stale and not get with the times while the rest of their division improved?
Again I'm sure there's more questions...
The list:
Giants - Reese was a genius, now Coughlen doesn't have IT any more? What happened to all the early round D linemen?
Falcons - Over reach in the draft for Julio starting to bite back? Cory Biermans wife a distraction?
Bears - Sometimes they look like they're the shit, and sometimes they seem to be the toilet paper.
Jets - Shouldn't have messed with Tim Tebow... God didn't appreciate that.
Panthers? - From the river boat to the SS mino
Aaaaaaand guess where we(redskins) fit in...
That's right.
Group D: The consistently bad teams:
Do they ignore evolutionary trends(passing league...)?
Who's really in charge over there?
Does anyone ever get fired?
Do they fire people to fast?
Do they hire unqualified people?
Do players resign there?
Do players talk trash about them when they leave there?
Do they draft completely different and or approach free agency different then the good teams?
Are they in a bad market?
Is the owner cheap?
Are they on the precipice of relocation often, or is it often a topic they are brought up in?
(Lack of local support)
Are fans not showing up?(ditto above)
Do they experience more(lingering) injuries than other teams?(poor medical staff)
Is there internal chaos?
Do they seem to have more head cases(guys getting in trouble) then other teams?
We could go on for days with questions like these for our team alone so I think we can start there.
The door mats:
Redskins - Long ago, in a land far away, they were good
Vikings - Dennis Green should have had Randle Cunningham kneel late against ATL?
Buccaneers - They've had more coaches than we have the last 6 years...
Bills - Starting Rob Johnson over Flutie curse?
Browns(could be in category 2 though) - Born again franchise hasn't yet put it all together.
Titans - Fisher didn't get them a SB W but man, sometime you gotta let a good coach stick around like Cower.
Raiders - I wish they were good, the league is better when they are. Did the apple in Al's eye fall too far from the tree?
Jaguars - Will we see "The Wrath of Khan" soon?
I'd say a good place to start the research timeline would be somewhere about 1998 maybe?
That I believe is right around the time of young Peyton Manning, Ray Lewis, Dan Snyder/Vinny C era beginning, Marshal Faulk changing the position, Big Tuna in Big D, enter the Belechick,
32 teams and re elignment(scheduling change), split back fields, more 3/4 Ds, and Roger Goodell and his rule changes favoring certain things.
Some teams have been obviously better then others adapting to the evolutionary trends. Some teams are spinning wheels("got mud in they tires").
I will most likely try to use profootballreference.com for most of my research but if there's another source just write website down on a Washington times, roll it up and back slap me with it.
Or you could just type it here
I figure there must be some who are good at finding info faster then I could, because they know where to look(serv?).
As well as hope this could possibly be a project thread for all to join in on and
might help everyone understand what's really going on.
Aaaand with the Redskins playing so, you know, below average expectation level and all, as of late, maybe this can be a bit of fresh air, a home work assignment to take our minds
elsewhere for a bit, no?
And answer my 23 year question?:
How is it the same NFL teams are always playing chess, but it seems that we are content enough playing hungry hungry hippos?
PS: I really tried to add bold and italicized and colored print to not make this look like a 10,000 piece puzzle dumped over but it just gave me weird shapes and coding or something. my bad.
PS part 2: If you're still awake sorry I made this so long. And if this can be edited please educate me.
HTTR
