A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 21
  1. #1
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default Mystery of 2009 Season

    Jim Zorn is done in 5 games and after 2 years of watching him I think the initial calls that Snyder hired a coach that lacked the seasoning proved accurate. Certainly some of Vinny's moves helped doom Zorn as well.

    But the enduring mystery in 2009 is how and why this club started to play better after suffering so many injuries and after losing so many giveaway games.

    Was it the reduction in expectations and pressure on a team with less talent than ownership saw?

    Was it younger and hungrier players proving what Gibbs believed, that a team with a few stars and a bunch of overachievers could go further than a team deep in egos?

    Whatever the reason, make no mistake that after camp and the preseason this team was not ready to compete against the likes of Detroit and Kansas City.

    While the Redskins were not a Super Bowl contender, the team did and does have the talent to beat Detroit and KC.

    The fact it took so long for Zorn to engender that sense of urgency felt at half-time of the Atlanta game is just cause for his dismissal.

    This team is average and by NFL parity standards that is 6-10, 7-9 or 8-8.

    Not 3-13 or 4-12.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2

    Join Date
    04-12-09
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    4,552
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    It's not that complicated guys. Teams have ups and downs during the year, hence the saying 'it's marathon not a sprint.' How the hell did the Giants win the Superbowl in 07? How did the Cards win the NFCC last year? This sort of thing happens to all teams. Good teams weather the bad times and jump on the good times. Bad teams do the opposite. We are usually in the middle somewhere.

    Somehow though, the we think our 'up' moments are proof that we are actually better than we are, and that our 'down' times are flukes. No. It's called playing a full season, and at the end of each season we invariably end up with 7-9 wins because we're a mediocre team with mediocre talent. As Parcells said, 'you are what your record says you are.'

    Right now, we are 3-8. We're not a 'good' 3-8 team. We're not secretly better than everyone thinks. We're 3-8, and the way we've played this year we absolutely, completely, and in all other ways deserve to be one.
    Last edited by Henry; 12-02-09 at 01:55 PM.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  3. #3
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    10,676
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    I was chatting w/ Tony Siragusa last night and he told me he saw a different Redskins' team out there Sunday than the one he saw earlier in the year. I think this is because we are dealing with younger players who are hungrier.
    Last edited by Elephant; 12-02-09 at 06:52 PM.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  4. #4
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Henry, the Redskins are not going to win 7-9 games this year and that in part is why I question the mystery of what we have seen transpire.

    This team will finish with 3, 4 or maybe 5 wins, far less than the mediocre 8 in 2008.

    The Redskins with their starting players in the lineup lost to the Lions and Chiefs.

    With eveyone on IR or inactive the Redskins take an 8-3 team and another 7-4 team to the edge.

    Things here don't add up.

    There is no rhyme or reason to what has happened in 2009 and the coaches look as lost as we do to explain it.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Section 106/ Eastern Shore
    Posts
    936
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Navy Salisbury

    Default

    why 6-2 in 2008?

    2 reasons....well when I think about it 3.

    1. Joe Gibbs carry over. You see this in the college ranks frequently after a good coach leaves. This team was still pretty much a Gibbs team and tried to play like a Gibbs team with exception to the pass game. the 2007 Redskins were a good (not great but very good at times) team that made the playoffs......knocking better built teams like the Vikings and Giants around in that stretch.

    2. The O-line was healthy (sort of) and we ran the ball. Goes back to #1. With Gibbs run scheme the Skins pounded the ball. The O-line opened holes and Portis ran through them and ran through some opposing players in the process. It was until the O-line started to get knicked up (Thomas out, Jansen getting beat, Samuels out, Kendall's bad knees) and Portis gtting hurt that things started to fall apart. Betts was hurt also. Neither banged up guy (or the guys backing them up including Rock and Alexander) could do much and the O-line became worthless. We can't win with our pass game consistently and it showed.......

    3. Zorn was unpredictable. We knew what Joe Gibbs was about. Everybody did. Zorn? Who knows. It made a team's defense tentative. However, once teams felt that they could win by crowding the box and blizting (or just sending 4 in some cases) Campbell....Game Over, man. Rams figured that out first (kudos Jim Haslett)

    As for why this team is playing better now?
    1.Opportunities.
    -Rock always plays with heart but now that he has the spotlight, you know damn well he'll fight for every yard he can.
    - Fred Davis has a chance to be a starter and not be in Cooley's shadow. Same with Yoder.
    -Tryon is getting more time with Carlos on the bench.
    - Smoot is having his last hurrah in DC.
    -Kelly and Thomas are getting their shots and I think they know they have a lot to prove to the next coach/GM
    - Betts plays better with more carries (ala Stephen Davis)
    - Other rookies/young guys are taking their shots when they get them (Moore, Ganther, Doughty, Golston, Jarmon, Rinehart.......)
    -Jason Campbell doesn't give a **** anymore and is just playing football. He's still inconsistent, but we've seen much more flashes when he just plays and tries not to think about what he needs to do.
    -Levi Jones is only 1000 times better as a OT than Heyer or Batiste, even though he's average/mediocre.

    2. The Sherms are better playcallers than Zorn.
    More creative in calls and more effective in the Red Zone. And if Zorn is calling more plays maybe this forced circus has had to make Zorn be more unpredictable and less stagnant.

    3. Opposing teams think we're an easy win and don't take us seriously.
    Denver, Dallas and Philly all looked flat at times and I expect the Saints to do the same thing. But the talent (player and coach) level on the opposing team is usually enough to overcome a flat performance. If, say Drew Brees gets knocked out of the game on Sunday, then the Skins may have a shot to win......

    4. Nothing to lose.....but their careers.
    Many of these guys have no clue what their future is with the Redskins, so many are playing like they are in contract years, b/c basically they are. With no cap next year unless your name is Haynesworth, I think you have a chance of being out of a job. Of course we know that's not fully true, but you get my point no player is safe b/c of a cap # in 2010, so every player has something to play for and I don't think it's for Zorn even though everybody likes the guy.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    :evil:Bring on the 12th Man!!!!!!:evil:
    It Is What It Is.......
    (The Official Blog of Walking Deadman)

  6. #6
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-16-09
    Location
    CTU
    Posts
    2,997
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Air Force

    Default

    Zorn was dealing with at least one prima dona head case that was spreading his noxious attitude to others in the locker room

    I don't beleive that it was a coincidence that the team, while still losing, started to look like a somewhat competative football team as soon as the Mouth was sidelined
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

  7. #7
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-19-09
    Location
    Bethesda Md
    Posts
    5,975
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Portis gained a lot of yards here but unlike guys like Art Monk or Darrell Green always had to tell us about how great he was.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  8. #8
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-16-09
    Location
    CTU
    Posts
    2,997
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Air Force

    Default

    And how ****ty others were, like his O-Line
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

  9. #9
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    10,676
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sarge View Post
    And how ****ty others were, like his O-Line
    Don't forget his FB.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  10. #10
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-16-09
    Location
    CTU
    Posts
    2,997
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Air Force

    Default

    Like I said, I don't think that it's just a happy coincidence that the attitude of the team changed as soon as the mouth was sidelined
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    Formerly known as ...............Sarge

  11. #11
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Section 106/ Eastern Shore
    Posts
    936
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Navy Salisbury

    Default

    Well, it was wrong that Portis said what he said publicly about his O-linemen and going to the coaches about Sellers.

    That said.....where was CP wrong in his opinions?
    Sellers has blocked worth **** this season. Unless the opposition is invisible or the air is an opposing tackler (now here's your retort: "It must be WD since CP stumbles often in the open field with nobody around him") I have seen many, many times Sellers looking for somebody to hit, yet hitting nothing.

    This was most obvious in the game AFTER the story broke about CP and Sellers....especially on Zorn's favorite run play: Strech to the left.
    And Sellers in previous years have been a force to be reckoned with, but not this one.

    As for the O-line comment, I would have liked to seen what he could have done with an O-line like Seattle had during Alexander's run or the Vikings O-line. I think Portis' real issue should have been more with scheme than with talent.

    Again another questionable front office move bringing in a small,speedy back that excels in a zone scheme and asking him to carry the ball 30 times a game in a power run scheme.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    :evil:Bring on the 12th Man!!!!!!:evil:
    It Is What It Is.......
    (The Official Blog of Walking Deadman)

  12. #12
    Resident Caps Fan
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,526
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    4
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    He deferred money to try and help bring in talent
    LOL...this is not a positive - he did not "defer" money, he took non-guaranteed salary and turned it into guaranteed signing bonuses of which the cap hit from could be spread out over the the remaining years of the contract to reduce his yearly cap number. So he actually turned money he wasn't guaranteed to make, and made it guaranteed money to bring in new talent, don't get it twisted. This is the signature move of the Skins FO.

    Oh, and you forgot the verse before the last one:

    "He threw teammates and coaches under the bus..."
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  13. #13
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    11-10-09
    Posts
    111
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    My sentiments exactly Bulldog. The key set of words in your OP: "was not ready." Translation: not prepared.

    Zorn has to shoulder a lot of the blame for this, but the players themselves are very much complicit.

    Much of this crew has been around for a good number of the seasons since Gibbs came back in 2004. And what exactly have they given us?

    Time for an overhaul.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  14. #14

    Join Date
    04-12-09
    Location
    Fairfax, VA
    Posts
    4,552
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Henry, the Redskins are not going to win 7-9 games this year and that in part is why I question the mystery of what we have seen transpire.

    This team will finish with 3, 4 or maybe 5 wins, far less than the mediocre 8 in 2008.

    The Redskins with their starting players in the lineup lost to the Lions and Chiefs.

    With eveyone on IR or inactive the Redskins take an 8-3 team and another 7-4 team to the edge.

    Things here don't add up.

    There is no rhyme or reason to what has happened in 2009 and the coaches look as lost as we do to explain it.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    This isn't particle physics. It's football. Things don't add up all the time.

    Football teams, like all sports teams, experience hot and cold streaks. Teams peak a different times throughout the season. In 07 the Pats were crushing everything in sight at the beginning of the season and the Giants were playing so badly people thought Coughlin was going to get canned. By the playoffs the Giants were playing the best ball of the year while the Pats were starting to fade. Why? Who freaking knows? Because it happens in sports, that's why.

    I'm not suggesting the Redskins will win 7+ games THIS year. We're going to finish somewhere around 4-12. It's because we're a crappy team. It's not because our starters aren't hungry or because Portis calls Zorn's mama a bitch or because Joe Bugel wears blue underpants. It's because we're a crappy team.

    Are we playing better now than we were earlier in the season? Sure. Big deal. We're still losing. The fact that this team is playing it's best ball of the season and is still losing games isn't a positive sign. And let's not pretend the Eagles and the Cowboys are the class of the league. They are ok teams who have played the same cake schedule we have. And they are division games, which often play out in ways that don't add up.

    What I'm suggesting is that we don't think we are mysteriously better than our final record. If we finish with 4 wins, let's not pretend we have 8-win talent. Let's, for once, look at our record and recognize what we are.

    A crappy team.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  15. #15

    Join Date
    06-30-09
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    3,567
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Indiana

    Default

    Another reason for the somewhat bewildering improvement-which, as Mike mentioned, is seems as inexplicable as the strong start last season may be due, I think, to the fact that now opposing teams aren't sure what to expect. The defense is in good enough shape to play well enough to make most teams have to work hard to score regardless. The offense, with the changes in scheme, tactics, personnel rearrangements, playcalling has become much less predictable compared to what it was early in the season.

    I'm starting to think that the surprising start last season was at least partly due to the adoption of a "new" system and the resulting difficulty opponents had of adjusting to the change in style of play. The same, I believe, can be said of the recent changes=as WD mentioned, the playcalling has improved and become more difficult to predict compared to Zorn early in the season. The younger guys are contributing more than probably had been expected and guys like Ganther and Jones have added a dimension that wasn't there in quite the same way. The Skins are, in some respects-and especially from the perspective of an opponent-more difficult to gauge and plan for. It's suddenly not just Moss and maybe one other WR, Cooley, and El who'll get passes thrown to them; it's not just Portis carrying the ball.

    And, as WD pointed out, the younger guys are getting their shot to show what they can do in a situation in which that may be the only way they secure their future so they're doing the best they can. I've opined before that overall the team is just "old"-set in their ways, so to speak-careers winding down toward retirement with little incentive to bust their chops on the field. Younger guys are out to show what they can do-and they are simply physically better.

    Lastly, I think the FO soap opera/train wreck did something to the entire team's self-image. I honestly believe that all the drama Danny and Vinny have engendered had an effect on the teams identity and self-confidence and this was reflected in the poor play early in the season. The younger guys were, to some extent, insulated from this and still believe they can win games-I think a lot of the older heads on the team lost that.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  16. #16
    Resident Caps Fan
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,526
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    4
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Personally, and this may be wrong, I just think the team plays harder when Portis isn't playing. Portis has become something of a team cancer, what with the constantly throwing a coach or teammate under the bus. Also, I think the rest of the team is resentful of all the guaranteed money he is getting from the Skins.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  17. #17
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    227
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    8
    VCU

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    But the enduring mystery in 2009 is how and why this club started to play better after suffering so many injuries and after losing so many giveaway games.
    Here's another mystery - what exactly have you seen that makes you think we're starting to play better?

    I think the offense is a little less pedestrian with Sherm calling the plays, at least statistically, but just like in the September, we can't close games or finish teams when they're down. We're inconsistent. We still have no identity.

    I can kind of see the 'hungry young player' theory, but not really. We do seem more fired up, more enthusiastic, more juiced. But honestly, what results has this produced? We've won 1 game in the last 7, against a team whose quarterback was TORCHING us until he got hurt, and whose backup could only muster 13 passing yards in an entire half.

    So ultimately, I think the answer to your mystery is that there is no mystery to be solved. We're just as bad now as we were in Week 1. It just looks a little different.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  18. #18
    2016 BGO Survivor Champ

    Join Date
    08-01-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    10,676
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aston Gambino View Post
    Here's another mystery - what exactly have you seen that makes you think we're starting to play better?

    I think the offense is a little less pedestrian with Sherm calling the plays, at least statistically, but just like in the September, we can't close games or finish teams when they're down. We're inconsistent. We still have no identity.
    I can't speak for anyone else but I would say we are playing better because we beat a team that is in the playoff hunt, the Broncos, and then had 2 close losses to another 2 teams in the playoff hunt, Dallas and Philly.

    Our other victories were struggles against teams that are the worst teams in the NFL, Tampa and St. Louis, and we were losing to teams that are just as bad as us, like KC and Carolina.

    Yes we are still losing those games, but it is close games against playoff teams as opposed to close losses to the NFL's worst.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  19. #19
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-27-09
    Location
    Hemet, CA
    Posts
    71
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    I also think us as fans are just looking for anything to call positive and hang our hats on. I know that I love my team and like to say it was close but if I say to an Iggles fan "we played you close" they laugh and say "yeah but we won" and that shuts me up
    Word, brother. And the beat goes on; yet another re-structuring, yet another HC, etc. etc. I will always love this team, but damnit it gets tiresome to be reduced to hollering 'wait until next year' at opposing teams' fans.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  20. #20
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Section 106/ Eastern Shore
    Posts
    936
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Navy Salisbury

    Default

    Off season is almost here......

    the most wonderful time of the year for us anymore
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    :evil:Bring on the 12th Man!!!!!!:evil:
    It Is What It Is.......
    (The Official Blog of Walking Deadman)

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. Theatrical Representation of the 2009 Season
    By Lanky Livingston in forum Sons of Washington
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 10-13-09, 12:19 AM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •