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The Real Talent Gap

Right before the draft I think I said something along the lines that I'd be happy if we drafted OL at nearly every draft slot. I still feel that way, although I do like some of the players we ended up with.

Not that I agree all that much with Colin Cowherd, but this morning he was making this point exactly. Most of the skill players in the league, while great players, don't typically make or break a team. We have some of the top skill players (DJax, Garcon, RGIII) and yet our team is 3-6. I'm not sure I could name a single WR on many of the top teams right now. They've invested in linemen. They give their QB's time to throw....and make space for the RB's to run. It's as simple as that. We've seen it ourselves....with the Hogs. There's a reason Gibbs won the Super Bowl with 3 different QBs, he had great lines.

With our cap hit the last few years, it's put our front office in a tight spot with too many positions to fill. I like some of the pickups in this past year...good depth players in particular. We haven't hit on many stars, but you have to start somewhere. I'm really hoping that this year we'll spend most of out time looking at the OL. I'm not as worried as some about our defensive talent - beyond the safety position - but I do feel very strongly that we're running the wrong scheme for the players we have. Why on earth would you ever drop Kerrigan and Rak into coverage. That's such a waste of some of the best rushing talent in the league. Run a 3-4 and let em loose.

Hassett must go. He's so creative that he burns himself. There's a point where the defense just needs to line up and stop people.
Run faster, play harder.

My two cents.
 
Loyal, i'm sorry but i have to rebutt here...

Arizona (8-1):
Larry Fitzgerald
Malcolm Flloyd

Dallas (yuck) (7-3):
Dez Bryant

Denver (7-2):
Julius Thomas
Emmanuel Sanders
Wes Welker

Green Bay (6-3):
Jordy Nelson
Randall Cobb

Indy (6-3):
Ty Hilton
Reggie Wayne

Cinci (5-3-1):
AJ Green
Mohammed Sanu

Detroit (7-2):
Calvin Johnson


The exception to the rule is New England but they have arguably the best TE in the world who makes up a lot for deficiency in WR. I understand your point about needing linemen, but it doesn't necessarily mean you forget about top tier WRs.. that needs to be a balance...
 
Thank God. I want none of his business.

Id rather have a bully that will throw you around by your head than a RT that will just watch you run by him and try to murder your QB.
 
Id rather have a bully that will throw you around by your head than a RT that will just watch you run by him and try to murder your QB.

He's a cancer though. I agree that his on field actions are desirable, but his off field actions are seen as so terrible that nobody will touch him. I really would prefer not to add more drama to the locker room.
 
the fact that we haven't even addressed him or brought him in to talk to him makes me worried. our entire right side is horrible and could use any help it could get.
 
Loyal, i'm sorry but i have to rebutt here...

Arizona (8-1):
Larry Fitzgerald
Malcolm Flloyd

Dallas (yuck) (7-3):
Dez Bryant

Denver (7-2):
Julius Thomas
Emmanuel Sanders
Wes Welker

Green Bay (6-3):
Jordy Nelson
Randall Cobb

Indy (6-3):
Ty Hilton
Reggie Wayne

Cinci (5-3-1):
AJ Green
Mohammed Sanu

Detroit (7-2):
Calvin Johnson


The exception to the rule is New England but they have arguably the best TE in the world who makes up a lot for deficiency in WR. I understand your point about needing linemen, but it doesn't necessarily mean you forget about top tier WRs.. that needs to be a balance...

Top tier receivers or just really decent ones made look that much better by a QB who has time to find them? Not all the guys you list would be on my "top tier" list.

Don't get me wrong....I agree, there definitely needs to be balance. But the Redskins are a great example of a team with lots of weapons and no line to protect. Of the teams you just listed, the Packers, Dallas, Colts, Broncos and Patriots have arguably some of the more solid lines in the league. Two great tastes that go great together. :)

We have weapons....good lord, do we have weapons. But we need a line more.
 
Top tier receivers or just really decent ones made look that much better by a QB who has time to find them? Not all the guys you list would be on my "top tier" list.

Don't get me wrong....I agree, there definitely needs to be balance. But the Redskins are a great example of a team with lots of weapons and no line to protect. Of the teams you just listed, the Packers, Dallas, Colts, Broncos and Patriots have arguably some of the more solid lines in the league. Two great tastes that go great together. :)

We have weapons....good lord, do we have weapons. But we need a line more.


You said you weren't sure if you could even name the receivers on the top teams in the league.. Not top tier. That's the only reason I even brought it up.

I do agree with you about the line 100% in the sense that regardless of who is catching the ball, it dont mean squat if the QB doesn't have time to get them the ball.
 
You said you weren't sure if you could even name the receivers on the top teams in the league.. Not top tier. That's the only reason I even brought it up.

I do agree with you about the line 100% in the sense that regardless of who is catching the ball, it dont mean squat if the QB doesn't have time to get them the ball.

Okay, okay....I can name some WR's....though some days I can barely remember my own name. :) But of your list, only 4 of those would in my mind be considered top tier. The others are really good, but more often than not get to shine due to the line and QB play.

Sigh. I'm just so tired of asking for OL from our management. I really love skill position pickups, but it's all just icing on the cake....and we need cake.
 
I feel like we've spent a decent amount of resources on Olinemen since Shanahan and Allen arrived. My eyes are more focused on Foerster and the lack of development. It's great to see Compton finally crack the starting lineup, but I'd like to feel like our coaches can develop guys more often than not. It's the other way around, now, where unless a guy is a high first round pick we almost never see them produce at a high level.

Very frustrating. I want to get coaches who develop players. I feel like our scouting is only half the issue. Development of players acquired by our coaches has simply been poor. More should be demanded from them, enough. I'm tired of seeing other teams have their coaches develop players consistently. Some teams have been/are known for their positional coaches developing guys (Giants and their WRs/Dlinemen, Shanahan and his RBs, Packers and their WRs/CBs, Pats and their *insert any position*, Buffalo and their DBs, Ravens and their LBs, etc...)

What position do we have where it seems like, no matter what lemons are handed to said positional coach, he makes lemonade?

I'm sorry, but out of our draft picks for Olinemen outside of the first round and who were on the team since he started coaching (Leribeus, Gettis, Compton, Hurt, Rhinehart, Cook, Capers, Moses and Long)... Foerster has only developed ONE GUY to take a starting position (Compton), and only after the RT ahead of him was so woefully bad something needed to be done. You kidding me? Our entire Oline has been, for the most part, made up of guys that were developed elsewhere by other teams. Trent is/was the exception, and he's a top first round pick. Basically, Foerster could only get guys who were already vets and didn't need nearly as much coaching to actually start, and not even that well at that. The only draft pick he got to start right away was Trent, a total stud.

I don't buy that every single one of these guys are just not talented enough and stink. Enough blaming the players always or the talent. Coaches should develop guys, period, and it seems like this team doesn't even expect their coaches to do so. Either the guy is a stud from the start or he's a bust, basically. Come on. Get on these guys. Coach them hard. Focus on their weaknesses. Work with them everyday. Believe in them and motivate them. Friggin coach and develop.

In my eyes, if he doesn't develop both Moses and Long into legitimate starters by the start of next season... he should be gone. Enough excuses.
 
Okay, okay....I can name some WR's....though some days I can barely remember my own name. :) But of your list, only 4 of those would in my mind be considered top tier. The others are really good, but more often than not get to shine due to the line and QB play.

Sigh. I'm just so tired of asking for OL from our management. I really love skill position pickups, but it's all just icing on the cake....and we need cake.
I gotcha man, I'm with you. I do think they are trying to develop guys... and we got Moses much later then he was predicted to go. This next draft and offseason are going to be big showing me that we have a multi year plan in place. I'll be upset if we don't at least show an attempt at getting some big time O linemen
 
I'm onboard with the calls for upgrades on d and o lines.

question for the analysts: what's the plan for managing all this thru the cap? are we on a 3-4 yr cycle where we take advantage of lower draft salaries and/or bargain FAs and then wholesale all except for essential players at the end of the cycle?
 
In my eyes, if he doesn't develop both Moses and Long into legitimate starters by the start of next season... he should be gone. Enough excuses.

I absolutely agree with you as far as the lack of development of the offensive linemen, but I hope he isn't given that chance. He should be on the list with Haslett and Morris and gone at the end of this season.
 
Man oh man this team is in bad shape. I think it's combination of two very large factors either of which will kill a team.

1. Lousy talent evaluation...our scouting department is the broken clock that is right twice a day, the blind squirrel that occasionally finds a nut. It doesn't make much difference if we're drafting O and D linemen if the choices we make don't pan out to anything better than average let alone the piss poor crop we've gotten the last 2 decades. Murphy (sorry Mike) has been remarkably unremarkable, and Moses and Long can't even make it on the field with a team that is ABYSMAL at the positions they play. Assuming the scouts are being listened to (big assumption), then their conclusions need to be dropped when they are replaced with a different more competent set of scouts. Why we continue to basically ignore this vital part of our team I will never understand.

2. Coaching, from DC to secondary, to O line, it's really bad in some spots. When you've got guys like Morris and Haslett and Foerster, who as has been stated can't develop a single freakin player, then it really doesn't matter much who you draft, they are doomed to no progression from the start. If you insist on shoving a square peg into a round hole and do it with MANY of your players then your team is doomed to failure and lack of production.

The quality of everything else is affected by these two things so in my mind until the slate is wiped clean in these areas this team will continue to be painfully embarrassing. It's an overwhelming task for a coach with a ton of seasons under his belt let alone a guy who is still a rookie HC. I'm also starting to slip over to the "Allen is a numbers and PR guy and we need a real personnel man in that FO running this stuff" crowd.

It's so freakin tiresome just to think about.
 

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