RG3 Act 2 begins against the Vikings

Defenses aren't as 'fraid of Griff since his injury and figured out the read option some .

Keim

The Redskins allowed only 13 sacks when Griffin didn’t play this season. Then again, the other quarterbacks, although they can extend plays, play a different game. Colt McCoy can make plays on the move, but he’s not the same as Griffin in this area.

But the sacks are an issue. No, it’s not all on Griffin, as the Redskins could use better protection. But in the past seven full games he’s played, Griffin has been sacked 32 times, including five more in Sunday’s loss to the Vikings. He had been sacked 44 times in his first 21 games, a more respectable number -- but also, perhaps, a function of defenses not blitzing so much.

In his first 15 career games, Griffin was blitzed 98 times. In his 15 next full games, he’s faced an extra rusher 201 times, according to ESPN Stats & Information.

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The Film Don't Lie: Redskins - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

so, we know they are sending more people because they don't believe he can run.

why in the heck dont we have Young or Paulsen in there to block for him then? Portis used to do it...

He holds the ball to long is why he's getting sacked more. He's got to make quicker decisions. Receivers aren't all the sudden not getting open since he's in there. He can hit wide open guys, but lacks the ability/confidence/trust to throw to a spot.

You mean, like the touchdown he threw to Jackson on Sunday?

He is definitely holding the ball too long at times...there is no denying that.

but is that due to receivers not getting open?
lineman not blocking well enough?
is he not moving around in the pocket enough to buy them time?

He does hit some of those throws that take time to develop ala Jackson deep and others. But then he holds on to it and the pocket just collapses around him. Maybe its the "clock" that coach keeps talking about...maybe he needs a reminder. But something has to give.

Maybe if the lineman would audibly count Mississippi's after the snap it would help?

Griffin does hold the ball too long. But if you want the plays where he escapes sacks and throws down field, you will have to live with that. Until the offensive line is improved, I think we will see both the holding and taking sacks as well as escaping the sacks. The opposite is what Cousin did, which was throw the ball quickly and predictably and have the defenders waiting for the INT. We all want RG3 to live for the next down. Whether it's sliding when running , throwing it away, or sometimes taking a sack instead of throwing into double/triple coverage. He's learning that, but he's not there yet. He will still hold on to it too long, but then make a Houdini like escape on a sack. He will also start to have more confidence in his throwing, decision making, and in his WRs. He lacks that at times now, but he will get there.

MikeSr619 said:

so, we know they are sending more people because they don't believe he can run.

why in the heck dont we have Young or Paulsen in there to block for him then? Portis used to do it...

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Man CP could block the hell out of some fools! Miss having a back as well rounded as him.

Do love Alfred but he ain't even close in pass pro comparison

Chris said:

Maybe if the lineman would audibly count Mississippi's after the snap it would help?

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Ha, or maybe use the one hippopotamus...two hippopotamus method on occasion

stevenaa said:

He holds the ball to long is why he's getting sacked more. He's got to make quicker decisions. Receivers aren't all the sudden not getting open since he's in there. He can hit wide open guys, but lacks the ability/confidence/trust to throw to a spot.

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Totally agree here. He makes the line look real bad, and most folks seem to think the line is making him look bad. Well yeah, a sack makes everyone look bad.

I don't see anything resembling timing routes and timing passes. Aikman made a career of the Zampeze timing plays. Griffin needs to learn this in his QB development. And Gruden needs to put those plays, and "hot reads" into the playbook. He sees that Grif is taking too long and is compounded by the porous line. The coach has the ability to make adjustments as well. But Grif must execute. I don't see much execution in our passing plays, I want more timing routes.

I saw a shocking stat earlier this week. It said Griffin has a QB rating of 30 in the fourth quarter. What's up with that. I know cluctch play is an issue, but 30???? that's not the route to the promised land, that is the highway to hell.

micks113 said:

Totally agree here. He makes the line look real bad, and most folks seem to think the line is making him look bad. Well yeah, a sack makes everyone look bad.

I don't see anything resembling timing routes and timing passes. Aikman made a career of the Zampeze timing plays. Griffin needs to learn this in his QB development. And Gruden needs to put those plays, and "hot reads" into the playbook. He sees that Grif is taking too long and is compounded by the porous line. The coach has the ability to make adjustments as well. But Grif must execute. I don't see much execution in our passing plays, I want more timing routes.

I saw a shocking stat earlier this week. It said Griffin has a QB rating of 30 in the fourth quarter. What's up with that. I know cluctch play is an issue, but 30???? that's not the route to the promised land, that is the highway to hell.

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Listen to the Cooley analysis TomE posted yesterday. It sheds a different light on the o-line from the message you are pushing.

btw...a 30 when your defense or special teams have repeatedly put you behind by mega-points? when you're forced to pass/play catch-up and everyone in the world knows it? I'm shocked, shocked, shocked!

Teams aren't afraid of Read option in General...the defensive coordinators figured out how to play against it. I believe there was a rule change as well regarding contact on a qb...that allows him to be treated more like a runner. I apologize for the vagueness.

TomE said:

Defenses aren't as 'fraid of Griff since his injury and figured out the read option some .

Keim

The Film Don't Lie: Redskins - Washington Redskins Blog - ESPN

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He thinks he's extending the play by holding the ball. He doesn't understand his short coming IMO is in not getting the ball out early. He's always scrambled and bought time so he could see the open receiver then throw. Now he needs to get comfortable in the timing routes and anticipation throws. If he stays healthy, he should be able too. I was encouraged with some of his improvements. He did stay in the pocket better, even if his feel is not there yet. I have to believe his lack in these areas is simply never had to do these things. He should be able to pick it up with experience.

I think there will always be situations where Griffin will be second guessed on whether he should run it or hold it a bit longer...that's part of the growing process. Who thinks he should be in midseason form after less than 9 quarters of playing time in a new system with a new coach?

It's all about finding a balance for him. He's not just a "stay in the pocket no matter what" kind of QB. It's why we moved up and spent a fortune to get him. Turning him into that is silly, I want him to use his legs. But, like I said, it's about finding the right balance. He needs to learn how to use the space within the pocket better, especially when a play call is designed to go to more longer developing routes. We've seen him use his legs to escape the pocket, but what we haven't seen nearly enough from him is using his legs to make those subtle movements within the pocket that allow his Oline to get back on their blocks or to just simply avoid pass rushers.

When he does bounce it outside, I'd like to see him keep his eyes downfield and try to extend the play behind the LOS as a passer, not a runner. I'd like to see him actually be elusive behind the LOS, keeping his balance and running with control so that he's able to elude guys with jukes, sidesteps, stutter steps, etc... to extend plays (think 2012 first Giants game 4th down conversion). I'd also like to see him bounce it out to the left instead of it always being to the right. That takes away so many options in the passing game all the time by splitting the field to only guys running routes on the right side and it also allows defenders to have that awareness to where they can chase him down immediately knowing there's little question as to where he's going to go. That being said, I'd also like him to know that when a defense is playing so far off or are in man coverage and have got all of their backs turned towards him, then he should use his straight line speed asset and pick up large chunks with his legs. When that happens, he'll also be safe in that no defenders will have an easy lane line him up and take a shot.

I'd also like to see him be more elusive in general. Just see some more football moves and not just run straight.

If he can find that balance to where he's doing all of those things consistently and choosing correctly most of the time, he can be great. If he can't, we'll be doing the same thing we've always been doing as Skins fans. Just holding on to hope.

I've stood by these things since last year. It's how I'm judging him. The great news is I've seen him improve upon all of those things, especially starting the Jaguars game and now against the Vikes. Against the Jags, he hit Desean Jackson by staying behind the LOS, eluding a LB while keeping his eyes downfield, and finding Jackson for a big gain. Unfortunately, he got hurt that same play. He bounced it out to his left on that awesome improvisational play to Helu against the Vikes, which was great to see. He stayed in the pocket on a few 3rd downs and went through his progressions while it collapsed on him, finding the right guy. On the deep play to Desean Jackson when we were backed up, he went through the play action and stepped up nicely in the pocket to buy enough time to make the throw. On one of the read option plays where he kept the ball, I thought he was going to do his usual "run straight to the sidelines", but then he stopped on a dime and shot up the field. That was so refreshing to see. Can't remember the last time I saw him stop on a dime like that. Football moves, you know.

So, yeah. I actually saw some things from him this year that give me legitimate hope, again. It's been so long, but I'm seeing a guy who can really do great things, again, and not just a guy who's regressed and is totally inconsistent. I'm just hoping he keeps getting better at it all and of course can stay healthy, because if he does... we're set at the most important position in football (thought we were after 2012, yeesh).

fansince62 said:

Listen to the Cooley analysis TomE posted yesterday. It sheds a different light on the o-line from the message you are pushing.

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I believe the 30 QBR is over the last two seasons. they were comparing several QBs over two yr period. I didn't listen and will have to check it out. But anyone knows holding onto the ball spells disaster for the line. NO lineman can block past the allotted 3-4 seconds (the average play last 7 seconds). Also, no DB can cover past a certain time as well. These are football 101's.

He needs to use his legs to escape pressure, occasionally running when a hole opens up. He isn't going to last otherwise. Just because he has always been a running QB, doesn't mean he can't develop into an excellent pocket passer with excellent escapability. I'm not convinced he will, but we can hope. It's our only long term choice with him at the helm IMO. Anything else and he'll be done too soon.

micks113 said:

I believe the 30 QBR is over the last two seasons. they were comparing several QBs over two yr period. I didn't listen and will have to check it out. But anyone knows holding onto the ball spells disaster for the line. NO lineman can block past the allotted 3-4 seconds (the average play last 7 seconds). Also, no DB can cover past a certain time as well. These are football 101's.

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no argument on holding the ball. I have observed same. that said...there is also something called root cause analysis. for example, more complicated plays that take longer to develop can produce the same outcome - especially if the blocking is inadequate. and the evidence is luminously clear that passpro has been critically weak with consistent regularity over the last two years.

in short...the phenomena we observe is the product of multiple factors. determining which is the most significant would require controlling all the other factors...which we (you and I) clearly can't do. while I agree that Robert seems a half second slow on his decision processes...I also know...cause I saw it...that the o-line passpro was horrendous last season.....especially on the right side of the line. 101 doesn't cover the nuances...the blocking scheme can obviously breakdown within a second or two after the ball is snapped (i.e., the play is already disrupted) and the QB's focus/thought process has to recognize and adjust to AN UNPLANNED EVENT. what is the root cause? the line's inability to execute passpro as conceived for the play or the QB's inability to adjust on the fly?

Posted this in Random Thought thread, but reading the last posts seems like it might work here. Keim's review of the sacks.

Under review: Washington Redskins QB RG III's sacks - ESPN