RG3 Act 2 begins against the Vikings

Several observations on RGIII today (and a continuing theme):

- so, I carped many times during pre-season that he was a half to a second slow on his reads. I have no idea why. I did see a really interesting analysis on Manning today (I believe by Jaws) showing how Manning read different coverages pre-snap and secondary angles/positions in space (after the snap) to determine WAAAAAY fast among 2-3 receivers who was gonna get open and making the right call. The skill comes from years of experience and study above and beyond. Up to Robert if he ever wants to be that good.

- I was on the road and didn't see the 4th qtr. except for the wounded duck at the end of the half I thought he played an above average game.

- he led the team to 26 points. they were in the lead multiple times.

- he brings an arm for the deep game none of the other QBs on the roster possess.

- his scrambling abilities saved plays where the other QBs likely would have fallen - got to weigh those against the occasional sub-par pocket performance.

- he does not appear to be in control in the red zone. by that....well...too many dang field goals. looks too hard for him to get the passing game going in the red zone.

- either we change the QB to fit the line or the line to fit the QB. I prefer the latter option, but we'll see post-season how this plays out.

- the defense looked horrendous......and sounded worse on the radio! post-game analysts said the team looked winded in the second half and more or less rolled over.

I, like everyone I guess, was a bit taken by the emotional undertows of the Dallas game. I expected us to flatten another 3-5 team led by a rookie QB. oh well. ***T happens! I do know one thing: hazmat must go. his defenses since arriving have never, ever been consistent. he appears to be a weak second half tactician. he certainly doesn't seem to be able to inspire his players to play above and beyond their talent levels.

- this one will get me in trouble: I continue to believe Murphy was a wasted draft choice. he played better in this game than against Dallas....but I see nothing.....no real hints...of future greatness or even of excellence. I'll just leave it at...from what I have seen....he loses most battles with left tackles. two games in a row now where there have been major, long, runs to his side. he doesn't apply much pressure. if he's all about saving money...well...that may be a credible reason...but it doesn't make the team one iota better.

I'm not so sure Griff has lost that much speed, it looks like to me he's being more deliberate as opposed to going from 0 to 60 into an all out run, allowing himself to look downfield or prepare for self preservation.

His last pass to Garcon looked like the result of indecision to run or pass and couldn't quite get his body right to execute.

TomE said:

I'm not so sure Griff has lost that much speed, it looks like to me he's being more deliberate as opposed to going from 0 to 60 into an all out run, allowing himself to look downfield or prepare for self preservation.

His last pass to Garcon looked like the result of indecision to run or pass and couldn't quite get his body right to execute.

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Tom, he has lost a step. His runs were labored and a couple times he was caught from behind by a DL.

Of course he just came back from a major ankle injury and is just seeing the field. He looked slow but he looked quick in the pocket.

Then why would someone suggest he had not lost that much speed. It was quite obvious he was slower and nothing like his 2012 speed. I saw a couple people suggest he was back to 2012 form today. That just isn't true.

Again, you saw my post earlier. He needs time to heal and adjust to the NFL system that is being run here by Gruden, not a straight up read-option that he was fit to run when full speed. He looked much better than I credited him for before the game. He made some great plays and kept us in the game...even slowed.

The truth is the truth, he's not the QB he was in 2012...not even close. As tired as you are of hearing people complain about the team is about as tired as I am of hearing he is remotely close to as fast as he was in 2012.

Elephant said:

Then why would someone suggest he had not lost that much speed. It was quite obvious he was slower and nothing like his 2012 speed. I saw a couple people suggest he was back to 2012 form today. That just isn't true.

Again, you saw my post earlier. He needs time to heal and adjust to the NFL system that is being run here by Gruden, not a straight up read-option that he was fit to run when full speed. He looked much better than I credited him for before the game. He made some great plays and kept us in the game...even slowed.

The truth is the truth, he's not the QB he was in 2012...not even close. As tired as you are of hearing people complain about the team is about as tired as I am of hearing he is remotely close to as fast as he was in 2012.

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It's no more tiresome than reading repeated attempts to prove this without ever offering up anything more tangible than "He just is" when others counter with "He just isn't? So now what? Keep this tiresome loop going or just let it go? More random, unrelated comments about ACL rehab?

You have offered up zero proof that physically he can't run like he used to while many have offered up the very real possibility that he's processing the game (mentally) different than what he was before and it's affecting his speed, especially on takeoffs. If the kid waits longer to take off than he used to then getting away is a LOT less likely, his runs to the edge looked just as speedy to me as they did before, he's just more tentative when contact becomes possible. If he's taking time to process and think before acting instead of just reacting like someone who was comfortable with more time in this system and it's going to make him look slower. He's being asked to do so many different things than before, a slow down should be expected. Hell that slide that drew the foul wasn't in his arsenal at all before this season.

I don't think saying he's back to 2012 form is justified either, but the kid looks very fast to me, he looks like someone learning a new scheme that is sometimes hesitant when maybe someone more adept wouldn't be. You see something else. Do we have to do this after seemingly every other game?

Elephant said:

Tom, he has lost a step. His runs were labored and a couple times he was caught from behind by a DL.

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I don't know if he's lost a step or not, can't determine that until he actually decides to 'go for it' with abandon as in 2012.

What I see is a more measured approach like a driver who hit's black ice on the road, looses control, spins out, regains control and proceeds to drive on knowing that the hazard is there. The driver is more than capable of pushing the pedal to the metal but chooses not to remaining under control.

You're probably right though, loosing a step can be mental as well as physical.

In 2012 he would have run for it on that fourth down attempt on the last drive, this time he looked hesitant and passed to Garcon without success, next time he'll make that pass and look good doing it.

Plus, regardless of whether or not he's lost a step, he's got plenty of step left.

I personally believe he will eventually get to the point, as a quarterback, that he won't need to be any faster than a Brady, or Manning.

But, he will be.

tr1 said:

Griffin did more than enough to win this game.

Unfortunately, he is one of 53 who collectively don't have enough talent or good enough coaching to be a winner.

RG3 is not the reason we continue to lose.

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Totally agree! Sure, he had some rust and missed a few throws, but he scored enough and had drives to take the lead too. Was frustrating to see the D not get a stop at all in the 4th! Typical Haz. Can confuse, blitz and get after Romo - but goes into a shell vs the rest of the NFL. Sigh...

Elephant said:

Then why would someone suggest he had not lost that much speed. It was quite obvious he was slower and nothing like his 2012 speed. I saw a couple people suggest he was back to 2012 form today. That just isn't true.

Again, you saw my post earlier. He needs time to heal and adjust to the NFL system that is being run here by Gruden, not a straight up read-option that he was fit to run when full speed. He looked much better than I credited him for before the game. He made some great plays and kept us in the game...even slowed.

The truth is the truth, he's not the QB he was in 2012...not even close. As tired as you are of hearing people complain about the team is about as tired as I am of hearing he is remotely close to as fast as he was in 2012.

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OK, here is the reason I think people don't see that he has lost a step. Some people need to believe that he hasn't in order to be able to feel like they are fully rooting, some people want to believe he hasn't because they want to believe that the pocket is collapsing, some people want to believe it because they think he is still rusty but that the speed is still underlying and he will get it back like shaking off ring rust.

All of those are perfectly OK and if someone wants to think that their QB is healthy and returned/returning/will return to his former glory that should be OK as well. To me, he was back to his 2012 form except when it came to the burst out of the pocket. He moved well, he delivered the ball well, and he had great vision. But he hung on to the ball too much in the pocket (hence my Rob Johnson comment in chat) and he didn't seem to really get away.

I also believe that he is hesitant to run or try to give that extra UMPH because of all the criticism he gets when he does. Reckless abandon, giving up his body, not sliding...all of those things are in his head. He is trying to be the QB that he thinks we "want" him to be instead of just being able to go out there and play. That right there could be why he didnt and doesnt just take off like he did.

Defenses are also spying on him and keeping LBs out wide to try to contain him. You can see as soon as he starts to escape he has a guy lined up coming at him. So he slides, like he have all been screaming for him to. He slid well yesterday. Heck, he slid so well yesterday that he had a PI called against the other team for hitting him while he was sliding.

So, honestly, I can see both sides. He is not as fast out of the blocks or cutting like 2012. But he has been told NOT to be that guy either. He seems confused on where to go to. It feels like he has it in him still and he wants to be that guy...but now he has injuries, critics, mediots just making up stuff. I am sure this is hard for him.

Count me in the camp that says he looks like he's lost his quickness. I thought he looked average and nothing special out there. He made some great long throws but totally screwed up the short ones. The int at the half cost us the game imho. Now I know the defense was crap. That was to be expected. I didn't expect Griffin to underwhelm. He even said he did not play well enough win.

Bottom line is we have a terrible team, and even he can't pull it up by the bootstraps. He'll get a pass this year, but he has got to show alot more to be a franchise QB. He's light years away. I don't get the feeling Grif is a clutch player. 4th quarter game on the line, I don't care how many times you are asked and called upon to perform, but this was a game that I knew was coming down to whoever had the ball last would win type game.

And for the record I'm sick and tired of seeing a player, Grif in this case, tap himself on the shoudler to say "my bad". Cut that crap out. It doesn't exonerate you for your mistakes to pull that "I'm sorry fellas" routine.

micks113 said:

And for the record I'm sick and tired of seeing a player, Grif in this case, tap himself on the shoudler to say "my bad". Cut that crap out. It doesn't exonerate you for your mistakes to pull that "I'm sorry fellas" routine.

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That isn't a matter of exonerating anybody. It's taking responsibility. Absolutely nothing wrong with doing that, lets your team know you've got their back. It's only a problem if it happens all the time, cause then you are escorting yourself out the door.

I expect the guy in control of the offense to claim responsibility for bad plays like that.

micks113 said:

I don't get the feeling Grif is a clutch player.

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I'm interested in researching the numbers, to see how he has performed on potential game-winning/tying drives.
My memory seems to recall only failed attempts, and several of them, but cannot remember the last time he successfully engineered a game-winning drive.

Ummm... he executed TWO game winning drives yesterday, only to watch the D allow two 80+ yard scoring drives immediately thereafter.

Those are not game-winning drives.
One of the definitions of a game-winning drive, is when it is the last time you have possession of the ball.

I think we can all agree they SHOULD have been game winning drives. And if we didn't have shit-for-brains Hazlett, they would have been.

That is way off-topic.
The subject was exclusively about actual game-winning drive opportunities, and clutch play, and a pattern of it.
If you're talking about playing in the clutch, by definition, you cannot completely exclude the very last posession, or else you're no longer talking about clutch play.

Clutch play, game winning drives, having "it".....

Wonder why nobody ever uses those words when describing a defense?

Right now, our defense wouldn't know what "it" is and the only clutch they know about is the one in their car.

Fear The Spear said:

That is way off-topic.
The subject was exclusively about actual game-winning drive opportunities, and clutch play.
If you're talking about playing in the clutch, by definition, you cannot completely exclude the very last posession, or else you're no longer talking about clutch play.

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At the same time, if you look at things in a vacuum, out of context, then you are coming away with an incorrect assessment as well. In context, he regained the lead multiple times, only to have the defense fail to hold it. You can say he failed, in order to support your argument. Or you can say he succeeded several times but half of the team failed to get it done as well.

Both statements are correct. Which perspective do you want to support? That's the one you choose to run with. Unfortunately, the argument doesn't help anything. The context is that Robert was part of multiple long drives, and that he helped our defense by doing so, and they weren't able to hold against the Vikings' rookie QB.

we have good players but not enough guys that are coming together.

Clark is more of a LB right now due to his injuries and he cant cover

our LBs cant cover in space at all

But we have up and coming CBs, we have a great new DE in Murphy to match up with Kerrigan, Hatcher and Baker seem to be working together well. We have pieces...but like you just said, we dont have "it".