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Just not that good

For ****'s sake, Seattle OL was not worse than our's! You are buying into skewed stats that just don't give the overall picture of how terrible our OL is. You are the only one in the WORLD suggesting our OL is better than average.

This is what your RT looked like all game against the Gnats!

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El, Philly has given up 17 sacks.

Those pics of yours aren't pretty on Polumbus.

You'd run out of film on Philly.

So how is Philly's offense so good, yet their O-line is so much worse? 4 sacks for every 1 we suffer.
 
El, Philly has given up 17 sacks.

Those pics of yours aren't pretty on Polumbus.

You'd run out of film on Philly.

So what! Who cares about Philly? They have strong special teams and a solid defense. But their high flying offense is not a sustainable formula for victory. The Giants are the best team in this division over the last 10 years because of their OL and will end up winning the division this year because they have been able to re-assemble their OL. Consistent winning in the NFL or football in general is done in the trenches. That is a fact as old as the game and your attempt to suggest it isn't that big a deal is fool-hearted at best!
 
You must not have watched that great Philly O today.

They scored one defensive td and two special teams tds.

That "great" offense was shut out today.

Couldn't run and Foles was beat to a pulp.

Why?

Oline baby.....
 
Ahhhh...so it's not the O-line.

So why do we always whine like it is?
 
So the Giants and Philly have better defenses and Sts, but not a better O-line.

And the Giants won with their D-line, crushing Tom Brady and the Patriots.

Just like Seattle crushed Manning and the Broncos.

It's not the O-line. Ours isn't bad. Like Seattle, we aren't prevented from winning the SB because of it.

I'm off to bed....5:30 am comes pretty fast here. Have a great night all, just wanted to maybe give something to think about so we don't resemble the embarrassing comments I saw on twitter.

I know we're much smarter than that.
 
Since when were sacks the only determinant for pass blocking success? How many times does our QB have to scramble or throw early or have their pass altered because of pressure? How many times have we seen the game plan altered to shorter routes or screens to make sure the line doesn't have as much pressure on it?

All I saw on Football Outsiders as a grade for pass blocking was sacks. Watching our games, Gruden is calling plays that are quick throws, and when the opponent has a longer drop to deal with, it doesn't usually work out for us. I think the point most people are talking about is that Griffin's ability to run, and Cousin's ability to quickly get rid of the ball, is making our line look better on that sort of stat block than it actually is.

Be honest. 4th and 12, game on the line, do you really want our line blocking for your QB? We all know how that will go down, we've seen it. Only time the do or die situation works out is when Griffin has made a freak athlete skill play to bail it out. Cousin's is getting eaten alive because of what happens in those situations. Other than the Raven's game, where he did a great job finishing the deal, our O-line has repeatedly faltered in the end, causing rushed, errant throws.

It's about more than sacks.
 
For those claiming "we'll never win without a better O-line" are you aware that Philly won our division with just as many sacks, or even more sacks, hurried passes and hits than we had last season?

Are you aware that Seattle won the SB with a worse O-line then us last season?

So how did they win the SB with a worse O-line in virtually every single statistic?

They have a better defense? Better coaching? Better WRs or STs?

Oh, so you mean it isn't the O-line? Wow, what a shocker. Maybe a strong defense carried them, and is more important than having the best O-line in the league?

I promise you, it will take those morons on twitter ten years to realize this. It took them ten years to realize that having Adrian Peterson or J Charles didn't equate to winning games.

you know..there's an old saying that your posts have stimulated me to repeat with a small modification: How is a drunk leaning against a lamppost like a fan using stats? the lamppost is used for support rather than illumination.

I've sat on the sideline...but at this point have to step in. if you want to play statistician then please explain something more profound than that winning entails more than just an o-line. we know that already. please explain something more profound than that the isolated example of a team with worse o-line stats than the Skins but a winning record somehow equates to diminished importance or significance of what everyone but you appears to recognize: that the o-line for our team, which plays a different scheme from these other teams, has been a continual problem for years? please explain why we have drafted so many o-line and why the current coach: A. brought in a new left guard; B. got rid of the old center and moved a new one in; C. drafted a replacement for the right tackle; and, D. drafted a replacement for the right guard. I don't know....but by my count...the significant stat here is 80...as in the new coach has made moves to replace 80% of the o-line over this season and into the next.

Most of us who have watched this o-line for several years now have observed what we know to be true:

- the o-line executes the zone blocking scheme well enough to support a top five running back

- the o-line is consistently manhandled by larger, physical defensive lines

- the RT is not blessed with outstanding athleticism/footwork in pass pro and is routinely beaten by strong and/or speed rushers

- the center of the line has repeatedly folded like an accordion over the years when confronted with physical d-lines

yes...other factors come into play such as QBs who don't feel pressure and step into the pocket. that said, if your analysis is correct, why is coach gruden putting such drastic changes into play? if the o-line is all that statistically wonderful...where's the need for change?
 
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Here's the thing from my side of it:

Yes, Polumbus sucks. He should not be starting. Any and all frustrations with his play are valid. But what happens when he is out of the game and we still have issues? TyPo is sort of a typical scapegoat for people to come down and hate on this team. You can tell the crowd and types of threads we are going to get by our record and its as predictable as the sun rising in the east. That is not to say that some of them aren't valid. There are good points in some of them. But then you just have the people who crash down on this team and go off on tangents that make it difficult to read what good points may lie.

We have issues. But every single team out there does. The Saints have major issues, The 9ers have major issues, The Chiefs have major issues. I can go thru most divisions and point out teams that have big issues on their OL, their QBs. RBs, etc. But when I see people still trying to blame Dan Snyder for this team being no good I just have to shake my head. The man has NOTHING to do with day to day football life or the direction of this team.

Gruden is trying. He has come in to a soap opera of high school chic fight proportion and is doing a pretty good job of keeping it together. We still have a top 5 RB, we have 2 great WRs, we have 2 good book end LB/DE. But our defense is shredded in the secondary. Its going to be hard to be a fan this year. We are going to have games like we did against the Giants. Hell, we have a brutal game coming up on MNF that I am having to convince myself to watch. But thats what we do as fans...we watch them and we root for our home team.

"Just not that good" can apply to many things on and off the field both as player and fans. Its time to start seeing the good things and talking about those as much as we do the negative.
 
Be honest. 4th and 12, game on the line, do you really want our line blocking for your QB?

That is best question anyone has asked yet, IMHO. Stats mean nothing.

Game on the line, 3rd & 12, 4th & 12, we HAVE to get the 1st in order to stay in the game, I do not have confidence in the OLine of the Redskins to protect our QB, no matter who it is, long enough to keep him upright & not running for his life to try to make a play to keep us in the game. And anyone who says otherwise is flat out lying to themselves...& to us.
 
So the Giants and Philly have better defenses and Sts, but not a better O-line.

And the Giants won with their D-line, crushing Tom Brady and the Patriots.

Just like Seattle crushed Manning and the Broncos.

It's not the O-line. Ours isn't bad. Like Seattle, we aren't prevented from winning the SB because of it.

In making the point that Seattle won the Super Bowl despite their terrible OLine, you inadvertently made the point that the Patriots & Broncos lost due to breakdowns on...wait for it...their OLine.
 
That is best question anyone has asked yet, IMHO. Stats mean nothing.

Game on the line, 3rd & 12, 4th & 12, we HAVE to get the 1st in order to stay in the game, I do not have confidence in the OLine of the Redskins to protect our QB, no matter who it is, long enough to keep him upright & not running for his life to try to make a play to keep us in the game. And anyone who says otherwise is flat out lying to themselves...& to us.

serious question: do you have confidence that any team can get 12 yards on a 4th? I mean, I see some might being able to get it better than others but 12 yards is not a gimme ever.
 
serious question: do you have confidence that any team can get 12 yards on a 4th? I mean, I see some might being able to get it better than others but 12 yards is not a gimme ever.

Absolutely. But would you trust our line if it was 3rd & 8 even? It's more the situation than the exact yardage. With the game on the line, and needing every yard you can, would you trust our line to protect the QB? Would you trust them to get there on 4th & 1?

I'm personally very appreciative of what The Butler has done. He turns some bad penetration as a result of the blocking into gains on a regular basis. Our line has opened some nice holes at times to be sure, but the impact Morris has had is very noticeable.
 
I think it is more about the amount of yardage needed and not the down. You need 8-12 yards and the defense is most likely sending 4 and dropping the rest back to prevent you from getting those yards.
 
I think it is more about the amount of yardage needed and not the down. You need 8-12 yards and the defense is most likely sending 4 and dropping the rest back to prevent you from getting those yards.

And those 4 on the line are getting consistent pressure.
 
serious question: do you have confidence that any team can get 12 yards on a 4th? I mean, I see some might being able to get it better than others but 12 yards is not a gimme ever.

I don't honestly care about any other team so my confidence does not lie with them. I have seen, on a consistent basis, other teams that can make those long yardage situations against us. I have seen us not be able to consistently get a 3rd & 3 because of the OLine collapsing, muchless a 3rd & 12.

We can seemingly send the house on defense & the opposing QB has an answer. They can send 4 & 2 defenders are meeting at the QB regularly.

Doesn't matter what other teams are doing, that is what I'm seeing here.
 
"I dont honestly care about any other team"

"I have seen other teams that can....."

we get plenty of pressure with our DL. Baker, Hatcher, Kerrigan, even Murphy is meeting the QB.
 
We got zero pressure against the Giants - zero. We've had one really good performance by the DL (good is probably not an adequate descriptor) but we've not seen consistent pressure. We can chalk it up to injuries - Hatcher and Orakpo specifically have both been banged up already. But the bottom line is we should have a fearsome pass rush with the talent there and so far, it's been pretty spotty.

As far as the whole OL discussion - I'm pretty sick of the 'we're not the worst OL in the league' and 'teams have won the SB with bad OL's' arguments. Is that really what we're shooting for - that's the best we can do - is to strive to be successful in spite of our crappy pass protection. I want someone making those arguments to find me a coach, HS, college, or otherwise, that will support the belief that having a bad OL unit is somehow inconsequential and 'nothing to worry about'.
 
The Redskins are a better team than they were last Thursday vs NY

You have to remember 2 things :

1) The Skins suck on Prime Time....and
2) The Skins suck against divisional opponents, most of the time.

So, what happens when you pair up a Divisional Opponent, on Prime Time ?
Super Suckage.
Besides the Giant game, that Philly Monday Nite wastage, not too long ago, comes to mind too.

The Redskins oughta be begging Goodell for no more Prime Time games, and surely no Divisional Prime Time games.

That bodes well for the Seattle game.
Don't know what's up with them, but this team needs to be treated for Stagefright.
 
The Redskins are a better team than they were last Thursday vs NY

You have to remember 2 things :

1) The Skins suck on Prime Time....and
2) The Skins suck against divisional opponents, most of the time.

So, what happens when you pair up a Divisional Opponent, on Prime Time ?
Super Suckage.
Besides the Giant game, that Philly Monday Nite wastage, not too long ago, comes to mind too.

The Redskins oughta be begging Goodell for no more Prime Time games, and surely no Divisional Prime Time games.

That bodes well for the Seattle game.
Don't know what's up with them, but this team needs to be treated for Stagefright.

The Seattle...Prime Time game?
 

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