A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Injuries or not, this one we gotta have.

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  1. #1
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    Default What Does the Broncos Win Really Mean?

    in the long-term nothing has changed. the Redskins are still making enough mistakes on the field to give up embarrassing opportunities, this week it was on defense. Campbell is still challenged to be dead-eye accurate on the short and intermediate throws that are a staple of the WCO. He also missed Santana Moss on a sure TD in the first half down the field. Zorn and the offensive staff again missed badly on a fourth and one try by attempting to go wide on a play where the defense was shifted to that side. I suppose there are no audibles on fourth downs here in DC.

    in the short-term, however, some 'divination' is possible.

    1. Clinton Portis is not integral to the success of the Washington Redskins anymore. Betts and Cartwright together form a better one two punch for 2009 than Portis and then Betts. I have doubts the 30 year old Betts and 29 year old Cartwright are long-term (even 2010) answers at RB, but I agree with Brian Mitchell that they have stated a case to be in the mix as long as they show themselves to be productive. It shouldn't be missed that Betts was playing on a sprained ankle.

    2. Levi Jones, age 29 and a former #1 draft choice, is a professional football player at LT. And while he is not Chris Samuels in his prime or a reincarnation of Jim Lachey, he IS again a professional tackle, and that is something the Redskins have not had on the left side since Chris went down. D'Anthony Batiste is not an NFL tackle. Heyer is not an NFL LEFT tackle. I think he can still be a contributor on the right side, as a spot starter or top backup in the future, however.

    The move of Jones into the lineup and of Heyer back to where he is more comfortable on the right side, made the offense's ground success today possible. Campbell also got very decent pass protection, as evidenced by the deep pass to Moss that he simply overthrew that would have been a sure TD otherwise.

    Is Jones a player that can help this team going forward? Interesting, as the Redskins have one top draft choice but need help at a couple of 'franchise' positions, quarterback AND tackle.

    If the team is able to draft a young quarterback, Jones may be a guy you can use to bridge as a starter in 2010 and bring along a young tackle taken later in the draft. Of course all this depends upon who is calling the shots in the War Room. Parcells would take the tackle first and find the QB in FA or through trade most likely.

    3. The safety situation on this team is becoming more critical by the week. While Rogers was simply beaten on the first Marshall touchdown, the safety (Landry) blew the coverage on the second one where Hall had him short and then let him go. I keep going back to the fact the Redskins drafted Landry to play him at SS and because the team doesn't want to either go out and sign a legitimate veteran FS or develop one from within, the club continues to put Landry out there as a centerfielder. That is not how he is most effective. The fact he has size and speed doesn't mean he has the natural cover instincts that Sean Taylor did. Landry and Taylor were never interchangeable parts, but complementary ones.

    4. Kudos to Fred Davis and Chad Rinehart for showing up to play this week. If over the next 7 weeks we are able to see continued improvement in these two players the 2008 draft may just NOT go down as the worst in recent team history. Davis needs to work on his blocking but has real ability in the open field with the ball in his hands. His performance would have been even more impressive if Jason Campbell had ever hit him between the numbers with a pass instead of making him jump high for every ball. Rinehart didn't get pushed around too much by Kenny Peterson and the Broncos rotation DTs. OK, these guys aren't Kelly Gregg or Casey Hampton but they are NFL performers. While Will Montgomery MIGHT be a future keeper as a backup center, he was badly overmatched trying to take on DTs who out-weighed him by 30-40 pounds.

    5. You have to chuckle. Hunter Smith is about the most versatile athlete I have seen at punter since Ray Guy was in Oakland and was timed at 4.5 in the 40 back in the 1970's. His pass saved the Redskins bacon mid-way through this game and kept the momentum going. He is doing now what ARE did with the option pass back in 2007 during the late run to the playoffs.
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  2. #2
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    Short term, I think we've seen that Ladell Betts should be the starting running back.

    But you're right that Betts and Cartwright, who are both older than Clinton Portis, aren't the long-term answer at RB.

    And this is nothing new, but Campbell is obviously not going to be here past this season.

    Fred Davis is a good player. One thing that I am disappointed with him about is his drops. None of the plays were 100% he should have made, but he shouldn't have dropped some of the passes.

  3. #3
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    the troubling point about Campbell, though, is unlike Rypien who also had a difficult time with some of the shorter passes, doesn't throw the deep balls with that much accuracy either. that play to Moss should and would have been a TD with any of the other 3 quarterbacks in the NFC East throwing the ball.
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    Good analysis, I agree. For the record though, I believe it was Smoot playing FS on that 2nd TD.

    It seemed to me that Rogers spent a lot of time on the bench in the 2nd half. Did I see that incorrectly?
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  5. #5
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    redskns21-

    Smoot was in on the play, but Landry bit bad, came up on a short receiver while Orton threw over the top.

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    Indiana

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    I don't have any terribly specific things to note other than my observation that the personnel juggling seems to have resulted in a combination that simply works better on offense than what had been used. Additionally, the team seemed to be exerting an extra effort than I've seen so far-whether it was the particular combination of players used, some lockerroom self-motivation, coaching emphases or some combination of the above-I saw a team today that could possibly have pulled a couple of wins out of some of the close losses the team has had so far.

    I will have to allow for a Denver team that is currently slumping badly due to the public exposure of defensive weaknesses that came to light after losses to the Ravens and Steelers. And, I almost hate to bring this up, but, losing Orton when they were up 17-14, I think, sealed their fate. Had Orton not been hurt the game would have been closer-a 3 point win-either way.
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  7. #7
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    Rogers was benched in the second half.

    Tryon was out there as the #2 corner in crunch time.

    Carlos made a mistake all corners make at some point, biting on the short fake, so while Blache can be mad at him and justifiably so, it would seem that only Rogers underplaying the mistake would get Blache THAT mad.

    Of course we all know that Carlos is looking to get out of town in 7 weeks, so this may be part of an ongoing saga.
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  8. #8
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    yep, Chris Simms had nothing. He came on the field and looked lost. Part of that was limited time to throw. For once the vaunted Redskins all-pro defensive front did its job and Haynesworth, Carter and rookie Orakpo rocked Simms a number of times.

    Remember, though, that even with Orton on the field, the Broncos really didn't drive the ball on this defense. They got two big plays in the first half that staked them to almost all of their points.

    Their special teams and defense didn't contribute the way the Redskins units did
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    Yeah, it seemed like a mistake and although it was a bad mistake, it didn't seem enough to deserve a benching especially when you aren't doing so with player like Hall and Landry who are consistently missing tackles whether it be because of over-agressiveness or being afraid to hit.

    I'd personally like to see Rogers on the Redskins long term. I don't think he's deserving of a super large deal with a lot of money but the kid can play and plays physical at the line and has pretty dang good coverage skills. Can't catch a cold but I'll take consistent coverage and tackling ove rthe occasional pick and a bunch of ole' tackles.
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  10. #10
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    if making mistakes were a cause for a benching, how come Campbell and Devin Thomas are still getting on the field?

    I agree, there is more to the Rogers benching than one play. There seems to be more to this than we on the outside know about.
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    Indiana

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    yep, Chris Simms had nothing. He came on the field and looked lost. Part of that was limited time to throw. For once the vaunted Redskins all-pro defensive front did its job and Haynesworth, Carter and rookie Orakpo rocked Simms a number of times.

    Remember, though, that even with Orton on the field, the Broncos really didn't drive the ball on this defense. They got two big plays in the first half that staked them to almost all of their points.

    Their special teams and defense didn't contribute the way the Redskins units did
    Yeah, BT, the D really stepped up today even against Orton. My man Suisham-now 12 for 12 on field goals (I'll forgive him that out-of-bounds kick off this time.) came through again.

    I just wonder how many times Hunter's gonna be able to pull off the fake FG thing before other teams actually start expecting it.
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    With Betts we actually have some life on offense. Our passing game is still pretty lousy, but we can run the ball. I disagree with BD that our pass protection looked good. I thought it was pretty bad, actually. But our running game opened up some short and mid-range stuff.

    The defense had some help from Sims sucking today, but I'll take it. When your struggling just to beat teams like Detroit and KC you don't need to apologize for beating anyone under any circumstances.

    If we have discovered a bonafide running game. That and a solid defense will give us a respectable showing from here on out. 6-10 or so isn't out of the question, and considering our start that wouldn't be too bad.
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    Florida State

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    I am not sure it means too much. I think the only thing I can add to this is that it seems as though the addition of Sherman Lewis may be working. Last week we saw a glimpse of something different in the 3rd quarter of that game when the offense had it's first real burst this season and this week with some good stuff (I realize there were still mistakes but you can see a definite progression since the return from the break).

    It seems like Lewis is seeing things that work. 10 different receivers caught a pass in this game. 10! And only 2 of the passes were to Moss. It no longer appears the plays are going to Moss, Cooley or Portis. There is definitely a lot of room for improvement, but Smith's play calling seems to be making a difference.
    Last edited by Elephant; 11-15-09 at 10:24 PM.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Indiana

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    Oh, sorry if this sounds facetious, but a lot of the overdue premiums on Vinny Cerratos "keep-your-job" insurance policy got paid up as well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Remember, though, that even with Orton on the field, the Broncos really didn't drive the ball on this defense. They got two big plays in the first half that staked them to almost all of their points.
    I dunno......they had a nice run down to around our 30 when the fumble recovered by Doughty happened. And then there was another time when I think Royal got behind our secondary for what should have been a huge gain and Orton overthrew him.

    Kudos to the Skins offense for finally putting an attack together; however, the injury to Orton was the big factor of the game.
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  16. #16
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    Navy Salisbury

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    Short Term:
    1. Levi Jones and Chad Rinehart are at least a temporary fix on the O-line, they both played well from what I saw.
    2. Betts, Cartwright and Ganther can fill in for Portis and at least for now running by committee would be perfectly fine.
    3. If the Redskins run the ball, this team has a chance to win.
    4. Hunter Smith is this team's MVP.
    5. Kelly, Thomas and Davis are developing and that's a good sign
    6. Marko Mitchell is getting snaps
    7. Todd Yoder is a Red Zone threat.
    8. Campbell should have some more confidence
    9. Zorn can breathe a sigh of relief......for now.
    10. This team is still fighting and trying to win without 5 starters (Portis, Cooley, Samuels, Thomas, Horton).

    Long Term:
    1. Carlos Rogers is gone at the end of the season
    2. Jason Campbell is still inconsistant even with a good run game. He still can't hit deep ball to his veteran players (Moss deep fade). Campbell is gone.
    3. Clinton Portis will probably be gone by end of the season.
    4. I would argue Rocky McInitosh however should be re-signed
    5. The win hurt our draft status today.
    6. We do have young players to work with for the future of this team.
    7. We may have to use a draft pick on somebody in the secondary.
    8. This game doesn't save either Zorn or Vinny's jobs (hopefully).
    9. The Redskins are still a first and foremost a run team......
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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    I'm done with Jason Campbell - he'll make the occasional play, usually out of pure athleticism, but the guy is erratic as hell and has major control issues. Like a baseball pitcher who can throw the 98 mph pitch, but is about as likely to bean you as throw a strike, he's really holding us back. I don't want to hear about protection. Today, he had it all day long and he still came *this close* to sinking the ship.

    Nice guy. Below average QB. We need to go another direction next year.
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    It appears Sherman Lewis is starting to get comfortable with calling the plays, as evidenced by the way Campbell spread the ball around today. It also appears running the ball is the key to getting this version of the WCO working effectively. That worries me as you are supposed to BOTH run to set up the pass or pass to set up the run in Zorn's version.

    The ability to run effectively and Hunter Smith were the reasons the Skins won today. Campbell just managed to make a few plays and not screw it up. I'm very happy we won today but my enthusiasm is tempered a bit by the play of the secondary and the fact that we had to knock Orton out of the game in order to win.

    Still, a win is a win and I have bragging rights with all of the Broncos fans here for at least a few weeks.
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    Amen Jimbo - this team needed a win in the worst way, and Redskins fans deserved having a pleasant surprise of a game. The offensive line played their hearts out - the problem is, I'm not sure we can ask for or expect to see that kind of performance very often. That was pure heart out there today.

    I had the same thoughts on the playcalling - we kept them guessing most of the first half, then wore them down with the run in the second. But I agree - if Orton doesn't get hurt, we probably lose anyway. I was pretty surprised at how bad Chris Simms looked. He's a better QB than he showed today.

    More kudos to Shaun Suisham, although he almost negated my good will despite the long FGs with 2 kickoffs kicked out of bounds.

    Mike Sellars also had a great game, and it was especially nice to see so many on the offense catching balls.
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    Navy Salisbury

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    lewis is much more creative.

    I would highly suggest however to remove the stretch play or limit the amount of use with our current personnel.

    Also, if Zorn called that stretch play on 4th down, he really shouldn't be allowed to call that play anymore.
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