A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #41

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    Forums don't kill civility, people do.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  2. #42
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Meh - this forum is so pointless. I really don't know why I keep it open. It just drives wedges and promotes hostility between good people. Real discussion is rare. I think I was wrong to insist we keep the PA forum. I have this silly idea that we can discuss important topics of the day without insulting each other. It's about as realistic as expecting political compromise.
    Some people just aren't interested in civility or discussion.

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  3. #43

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    James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    How much hatred is over the top James? I hate this administration. It feels like just the right amount (And of course I mean all this with tongue firmly planted in cheek - I don't truly 'hate' anyone). Obama is the do-nothing President of all time, his signature (hell, ONLY) accomplishment is destroying healthcare from the bottom up (in progress), and his cronies are interested in nothing more than demonizing 'the enemy'. I won't call myself a Republican again, for some of the reasons you probably share. But let's stop the charade that it hasn't been the Democrats driving the agenda (or should we say, lack of one) for the past 6 years. Record deficits, mind-boggling debt, record jobless rates, a laughing stock in international affairs, stifling regulatory growth, and outright abuse (probably criminal) of US citizens and opponents for political purposes.

    The Republican Party may be lost, corrupt, obstructionist, and a piss poor alternative. But they haven't been running the show for the past 6 years. That's not a minor point.
    Here's the problem, and in my mind, it exists on both sides. And having voted for each party in the last two elections, I feel as though I am not really tied to either party, though having grown up a staunch GOP'er, I probably lean more in that direction than any other. People get defensive when you attack who they voted for. It's an ownership thing. So I voted for Obama in '12, and regret it immensely now. I am coming around to the idea that he is a pretty terrible president who I should not have ever supported.

    Now, you know what isn't helpful for me, personally, coming to that conclusion? When people whom I count as friends constantly say something along the lines of, "Duh!!!!" No one likes to hear "I told you so". It makes me defensive and want to protect the choice I made, and that forces me to come out swinging to a certain extent, which is why I have tried (and failed) to stay out of the PA for a little while.

    So a lot of this is my problem and my problem alone. I need to learn from the criticism and not take it personally, which is something I am not good at. I'm competitive and stubborn, which means I hate losing and refuse to admit it as long as possible, neither of which are great characteristics in this forum.

    As to your other post, I defer to the membership here. On the one hand, I think it would be a shame to close the forum, and on the other hand, we've been waiting for tone and conversation to improve for 4-5 years now and it hasn't yet. Not really sure there is any reason to expect it to improve at this point?
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  4. #44
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Plus, someone's view of how successful or unsuccessful Obama has been is always going to be tinted by political views, status, profession, etc. A lot of people on both sides claim to have the correct answer, when in fact that answer changes based on an individual's situation (IMO). Also, is impossible to have rational, calm discussion when half the time one (or both) people are not open to discussion. I cannot have a discussion about the shade of blue in the sky with someone who is convinced it's green, and laughs at everyone who thinks it's blue.

    I think another big problem with this forum is preconceived notions; half the attacking responses are aimed towards a policy, party or politician that poster is assumed to support, and it often doesn't end well.

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  5. #45

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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    Well, I will discuss with staff - but I think we've got a big enough sample size of what to expect from members in this forum and it's not pretty. The writing is on the wall. Most of my staff peers would have been content with closing this thing down a long time ago. I should listen to them more.
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  6. #46
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Well, I will discuss with staff - but I think we've got a big enough sample size of what to expect from members in this forum and it's not pretty. The writing is on the wall. Most of my staff peers would have been content with closing this thing down a long time ago. I should listen to them more.
    I think it's about run its course. Even the good debates can turn on a dime via a perceived insult or subtle jab. It's really on all of us as individuals, as Mike posted; we are in sole control of how we react or respond to someone else.

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  7. #47

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    Navy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Well, I will discuss with staff - but I think we've got a big enough sample size of what to expect from members in this forum and it's not pretty. The writing is on the wall. Most of my staff peers would have been content with closing this thing down a long time ago. I should listen to them more.
    want me to light the match?
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  8. #48

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    I guess I'll be the only one to miss it if it goes. Maybe because I seem to have navigated it pretty well. Others seem to struggle mightily, and constantly, at staying inside the lines. Maybe that's part of the problem. I don't think I've ever gotten too far out of hand, or stepped very far over the line. I could be wrong. Though I don't really believe so.

    We all have preconceived notions as to the intent of others. Only a few of us are right, more often than not.

    Oh well, we can't talk football 24/7.

    The PA is the current location for non sports. Without it, some of these issues will just transfer to other forums. The location hardly matters.

    There is history between many here that will never be erased.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  9. #49

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    Navy

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    well, to those of us who really love BGO, there is no other forum and we will check our news here whether political or not. I'm not going anywhere, that's for sure.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Ax, not trying to be a smart ass, but there's several different forums for non-Redskins talk. Not sure if you're aware of them or not! The PA definitely isn't the only one. Just the only one for political topics.

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  11. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    well, to those of us who really love BGO, there is no other forum and we will check our news here whether political or not. I'm not going anywhere, that's for sure.
    Sorry man. Didn't mean to imply going to another site. That's not gonna happen. I meant a different forum within the site.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Ax, not trying to be a smart ass, but there's several different forums for non-Redskins talk. Not sure if you're aware of them or not! The PA definitely isn't the only one. Just the only one for political topics.
    Well, smart ass!

    just kidding. No worries Lanky.

    I did say, "non sport" though.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Well, smart ass!

    just kidding. No worries Lanky.

    I did say, "non sport" though.
    5 O'Clock Club is non sports also! Well, mostly.

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  13. #53

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    5 O'Clock Club is non sports also! Well, mostly.

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    Correctamundo!

    But everybody has enough respect to not sully a forum about bourbon, or gardening.

    Or bourbon.

    Or, did I already mention, bourbon.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Correctamundo!

    But everybody has enough respect to not sully a forum about bourbon, or gardening.

    Or bourbon.

    Or, did I already mention, bourbon.
    Ironically, Bob and I moved our bourbon discussion to another venue for similar reasons.

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  15. #55

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    Marine Corps Virginia

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    5 O'Clock is about whatever folks want it to be about. It just won't be about politics, religion, or controversy. And I think almost 5 years of opportunity for members to learn to express their thoughts civilly and respectfully in the PA forum is time enough. If you guys loved it so much, you'd have self-policed it long ago. You didn't and we'll do whatever we think is best now. I'm tired of seeing good members leave as a result of the nastiness in that forum.
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  16. #56

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    The problem with self policing in this forum is, you'd have to be allowed to carry a gun to really make a difference. And only the mods have guns.

    That, and at some point in a conversation, if you think someone is full of FOS, you need to be able to say so. You can disguise the verbiage just so much. Having to bite your tongue, while being the desired measure, is hard to do sometimes. And acting like you DON'T think someone is FOS, is phony. I know I have a hard time with that.

    But, I follow the rules. So, whatever they are, I'll follow them. But I will miss the PA. Entertainment at it's best.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  17. #57

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    Its not that hard to do.

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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Meh - this forum is so pointless. I really don't know why I keep it open. It just drives wedges and promotes hostility between good people. Real discussion is rare. I think I was wrong to insist we keep the PA forum. I have this silly idea that we can discuss important topics of the day without insulting each other. It's about as realistic as expecting political compromise.
    As you know...I recommended this to you a long time ago.

    I find the entire idea that PA can somehow serve as a medium for pleasant exchange of ideas absurd - this isn't a soiree with tea and crumpets among colleagues sharing witty repartee. It addresses serious matters that of themselves carry huge emotional energy. Ideas matter. The ideas and values people express are a direct reflection of who they are....and everything that can be inferred from that. How they think, how they respond, what they leave out, what they include, how they navigate through a challenge - it all reveals character. It is very easy to make associations to similar patterns, similar tactics, similar personalities. I grew up during a period, the 60s, when broad discussion was infinitely more volatile than it is now (partly because the media was in the lead then...but I digress). The same thing happened then - only worse. There is no such thing as a pleasant political discussion. Sexual identity, war, discrimination, etc...these are all lightening rod issues that strike to the core of who people are and what they believe.

    I'd just assume keep to the relatively benign domains of football, drinking preferences, IT....anything other than politics where one cannot back down from bad ideas and destructive conclusions. Alas, unlike, say Goal or Henry, I am not strong enough to back down. I will contest and challenge with uncompromising energy. I expect no less of anyone else. Mutual respect, IMO, carries no weight when the ideas are bad/destructive. There is no doubt in mind that others in PA - on all sides - feel the same way.....they certainly post accordingly.

    I say end it. put it out of its misery. this is, afterall, a Skins board first and last. why drive us all to consider matters of character that are perhaps best left unexamined?

    What is the priority here? If it is the collegial Redskin fan family...then 86 PA. We all do pretty well outside this one watering hole....except when those other respites from work stray into political territory (e.g., team name) :-)
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  19. #59

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    Fab. Queue the music.
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    well...ok

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