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The Hazlett Conundrum

Om

Om

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It's been a while since I was able to really be part of the conversation around here, so I'm wondering what the general feeling is regarding the D heading into the draft, and ultimately into 2014. Last time I checked, that side of the ball in DC was coming off four years of meh ... and I was among many calling for the head of Monsieur Haz.

My feeling really hasn't changed. As many have written, and I have documented on several occasions, there is nothing--literally nothing--on the man's professional defensive coordinator resume that leads me to believe 2014 will be any different than all of his previous defensive incarnations.

Yes, I heard how Mike Shanahan overstepped and may have affected Haz' abililty to do his job ... but Mike wasn't in Pittsburgh, or St. Louis, or anywhere else that Haz previously did NOT field particularly good defenses. It can be convincingly argued that the man's entire NFL career as a DC so far has been considerably less than that.

So you tell me ... are the Redskins doing enough personnel-wise that Haz will translate his new autonomy into consistently effective defense? Was the latter half of 2013, when the D, like the O and special teams, all caught fire, a mirage? Or was it finally an indicator that when the ingredients are in place, Jim Hazlett can turn the Redskins defense into a playoff type squad?

Or are we going to be having this same conversation again as 2014 comes to a close?

I know Jay Gruden had a comfort level with Haz, and I respect that. What I worry about, though, is whether comfort in this case will prove cold.
 
I have a lot of skepticism around the 'conventional wisdom'. One reason I have almost zero respect for sports media types (sorry tshile!) is that I think they pick and choose liberally who to tar and feather. Jim Haslett has earned more than a couple good tar and featherings if you ask me. What we're supposed to believe is that poor Haslett, he was locked up in the equipment room, and replaced with mini-Mike, a Shan-a-Bot who did Mike's bidding and ONLY Mike's bidding on the defensive scheme and calls, to of course, predictably horrific results.

I have zero problem believing that Mike Shanahan was a control freak (and at some level, an egomaniac control freak). But I have watched Haslett defenses under perform for years and years and years. I've seen us give away games with poor defensive playcalling late that boggled the mind. And at the very least, if Haslett was unduly and/or inappropriately hamstrung or influenced by Shanahan, I'd expect any self-respecting NFL coordinator to put a stop to that, or walk.

Suffering in silence (IF, in fact, there was actually any suffering going on, I mean other than that experienced by Redskins fans watching our defense) is not acceptable. Being muzzled, interfered with, and undermined (again, if ANY of that actually happened) and saying nary a word - well, it's gutless and lame. If that really was going on in DC, Haslett had an obligation to do something about it. He didn't.

Shanahan has been burned, not just in effigy, but literally. He's been run out of town and villified, maybe rightfully so, and maybe not so rightfully in every instance. There are no more excuses for Jim Haslett (or as I refer to him, Jim Hasletthemscoreagain). From here on out, his built in scapegoat is no more, excuses will be scant for the finding. Good or bad, it's all on him. I ain't a believer. But I'll be happy to be proven horribly, horribly wrong.
 
The whole thing about the Shanahan interference has always struck me as obfuscation and scapegoating. Hazlett had been mediocre before Mike, and continued to be mediocre with Mike. The only way that line of thinking would gain any traction would be if his previous head coaches had interfered as well. I don't believe I have ever heard that possibility even whispered.

Weird thing is, I actually have kinda grown to LIKE the man. He's a linebacker-turned-coach right out of central casting. I WANT that glowering, intense personna, and the apparent lack of facial muscles normally ascribed to producing smiles in normal human beings, to work.

But given the evidence at hand over the man's NFL career as a defensive coach, it's hard not to think we're seeing the definition of insanity playing out here in DC just a little.
 
I think I'm pretty much right in line with you Om. I've seen absolutely nothing to convince me this year will be any different than the rest under Haslett. I'm decidedly underwhelmed and think keeping him is one of the biggest mistakes the FO could have made this off-season.
 
He's a nice man from what I can tell, and I hope he succeeds. I really think that the reason they kept him on was largely because they hired a first time NFL coach. Whether Haslett has been great or a disaster, he does have years of experience as an NFL head coach and Gruden can likely lean on him if necessary until he figures out what kind of a head coach he wants to be.
 
I'll admit that I'm not greatly familiar with how Haslett's previous defenses ranked.
But I do know this - Haslett became a Head Coach at one point, after working as an NFL Defensive Coordinator. That's relevant and significant, because typically when an NFL Defensive Coordinator gets a Head Coaching gig, he HAD to be a good NFL Defensive Coordinator prior to that.
Matter of fact, I'd go as far as saying he had to be an AWESOME D.C. Because I think it's actually harder for DC's to get HC jobs, than OC's.
There simply is no such thing as a crappy NFL D.C., who then gets offered a HC gig.
So that in itself is enough to have faith in him.
 
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we've added some good pieces up front, got some good players back that we needed to hold the same style, but we have yet to address the corners. We are still hoping and praying that our "rookies" can step up, we brought in a last stop in Ryan Clark, and even lost Josh Wilson..I wasnt so sad about that.

Here is the thing; my thoughts are that the offense and the points they put up will determine how well our defense plays. Long drives = rest for the boys, decent drives = pinning them deeper in their own end, and the more points Griffin and the boys put up the more "chances" that we can take.

Now, can Haz scheme for that? Is he able to take the guys we have and coach them to play better than they are and overachieve? I have no idea...all I have are my B&G glasses and a lot of hope. I do like the Hatcher signing though.
 
Adding Brian Baker as their Outside LB coach was a move in the right direction (January 15).

BAKER FOOTBALL TIMELINE

1984: Student Coach, Maryland
1985: Graduate Assistant, Maryland
1986: Fullbacks Coach, Army
1987-94 Linebackers Coach, Georgia Tech
1995: Defensive Coordinator/Linebackers Coach, Georgia Tech
1996: Defensive Line Coach, San Diego Chargers
1997-2000: Defensive Line Coach, Detroit Lions
2001: Defensive Line Coach, Minnesota Vikings
2002-03: Linebackers Coach, Minnesota Vikings
2004-05: Defensive Line Coach, Minnesota Vikings
2006-08: Defensive Line Coach, St. Louis Rams
2009-10: Defensive Line Coach, Carolina Panthers
2011-12: Defensive Line Coach, Dallas Cowboys
2013: Outside Linebackers Coach, Cleveland Browns

link: Washington Redskins: Brian Baker

Some of those defenses - pretty good. The Browns in 2013? - 3rd in the AFC & 9th in the NFL in total defense (yds/game). Redskins? Not quite as good - 7th in the NFC & 18th in the NFL. How much difference can a coach make - I guess we'll see. I can definitely see this guy finding a way up the ranks. At any rate, you are as good as your supporting staff & Haz's got a whole lot better staff support this January.
 
While his record here and else wear isn't something to cheer about, I still think with the right players, he can field a top 10 D. We've addressed our pass rush to some degree, and that's where it starts. It all trickles down, and the better we're up front, the better we'll be all around. In 12, we were able to mask a lot of the problems on D because the O was clicking. I can't view the Skins as three units. There a team, and one unit feeds off the others. Do we really need a world beating D to succeed ? Not in my opinion. Better play out of the O and teams will make even a Haz run D work so much better.

My hopes are with the O and teams to give the D the needed support it didn't have in 13.
 
DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS......its just that simple....one of the highest scoring offenses of all time shut down by the SEAHAWKS "D"..not a little shutdown..they could not do nothing...... i just seen it to much over my 53 years the best offense is a GREAT DEFENSE...so with that said i still think we are a few pieces short on having a top 10 defenses ..Haslett is not my favorite, but you have to be able to give the guy the right pieces in order to succeed, too me we really haven't done enough, with the right personnel to be even a good defense..needs to addressed in the draft, but with so many needs we are going to come up short somewhere so we are still building ..a continuing, looks like the we are taking the right steps forward...thats just my opinion which is worth nothing because everyone sees things different, all though i am excited to for the season to begin and to see what we do in the draft.. . #HTTR
 
Fear The Spear said:
I'll admit that I'm not greatly familiar with how Haslett's previous defenses ranked.
But I do know this - Haslett became a Head Coach at one point, after working as an NFL Defensive Coordinator. That's relevant and significant, because typically when an NFL Defensive Coordinator gets a Head Coaching gig, he HAD to be a good NFL Defensive Coordinator prior to that.
Matter of fact, I'd go as far as saying he had to be an AWESOME D.C. Because I think it's actually harder for DC's to get HC jobs, than OC's.
There simply is no such thing as a crappy NFL D.C., who then gets offered a HC gig.
So that in itself is enough to have faith in him.
Click to expand...
While I admire the glass-half full outlook, I guess the question then becomes how long faith alone is enough. Not sure if you've had a chance to review his entire record, so if not ... enter at your own risk. :twitch:

Miles Monroe said:
While his record here and else wear isn't something to cheer about, I still think with the right players, he can field a top 10 D. We've addressed our pass rush to some degree, and that's where it starts. It all trickles down, and the better we're up front, the better we'll be all around. In 12, we were able to mask a lot of the problems on D because the O was clicking. I can't view the Skins as three units. There a team, and one unit feeds off the others. Do we really need a world beating D to succeed ? Not in my opinion. Better play out of the O and teams will make even a Haz run D work so much better.

My hopes are with the O and teams to give the D the needed support it didn't have in 13.
Click to expand...
Which goes to the heart of the matter I guess. Yes I agree that given a team with good head and support coaching, a consistent offense, steady special teams, and solid defensive personnel, Jim Hazlett can probably be counted on to produce a defense worthy of a contender. I guess at this point, I'm just kinda wishing we knew we were heading into a season with a defense leader with a proven track record of not just fielding a unit capable of holding its own, but actually excelling.

You know me ... I'm a positive guy. But my faith in Haz has been, if not broken, badly shaken.
 
He better do well this year; I get the feeling that Gruden is letting him have a one-year "see what you can do" type of audition. Outside of Fletcher, the defense is mostly unchanged since 2012 when they were pretty good. I think his defense suffered from a stumbling offense last year, the same way it benefited from a powerhouse offense in 2012; and I think again, it will be the same way this year. If we control the ball and score consistently, the D will look a whole lot better. I think Gruden knows this as well, and realizes that was a huge part of the problem.

The addition of Baker is huge as well... Shamahan's buddy was the LB coach the past few years, and you could see Kerrigan regressing (or at least, not improving). I think Baker is going to have a profound impact on RK's play, as well as Rak's.

Edit: damn autocorrect mistakes...

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
 
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Kind of what I'm thinking. "You say you've been hamstrung by the previous staff? Ok, big guy... prove it."

Nick
 
Om said:
The whole thing about the Shanahan interference has always struck me as obfuscation and scapegoating. Hazlett had been mediocre before Mike, and continued to be mediocre with Mike. The only way that line of thinking would gain any traction would be if his previous head coaches had interfered as well. I don't believe I have ever heard that possibility even whispered.

Weird thing is, I actually have kinda grown to LIKE the man. He's a linebacker-turned-coach right out of central casting. I WANT that glowering, intense personna, and the apparent lack of facial muscles normally ascribed to producing smiles in normal human beings, to work.

But given the evidence at hand over the man's NFL career as a defensive coach, it's hard not to think we're seeing the definition of insanity playing out here in DC just a little.
Click to expand...

well...seems to me we're going to find out real quick. Hazlett's primary job this season is to out-think and stop Chip Kelley's offense.
 
ntotoro said:
Kind of what I'm thinking. "You say you've been hamstrung by the previous staff? Ok, big guy... prove it."

Nick
Click to expand...

My other theory is that Gruden is focusing on Griffin and the offense this year, and setting the D to autopilot. If it gets better, awesome; extend Haz and call it a day. If it's the same (or god forbid, worse) can him and start looking at it more seriously in 2015.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
 
Lanky Livingston said:
My other theory is that Gruden is focusing on Griffin and the offense this year, and setting the D to autopilot. If it gets better, awesome; extend Haz and call it a day. If it's the same (or god forbid, worse) can him and start looking at it more seriously in 2015.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Could it be worse? :biggrin-new:

If the D isn't top-15, I think Has is donesies. If it's bend-but-don't-break... same. Gruden is young enough to see where the game is going in terms of D.

Nick
 
Boone said:
I have a lot of skepticism around the 'conventional wisdom'. One reason I have almost zero respect for sports media types (sorry tshile!) is that I think they pick and choose liberally who to tar and feather. Jim Haslett has earned more than a couple good tar and featherings if you ask me. What we're supposed to believe is that poor Haslett, he was locked up in the equipment room, and replaced with mini-Mike, a Shan-a-Bot who did Mike's bidding and ONLY Mike's bidding on the defensive scheme and calls, to of course, predictably horrific results.

I have zero problem believing that Mike Shanahan was a control freak (and at some level, an egomaniac control freak). But I have watched Haslett defenses under perform for years and years and years. I've seen us give away games with poor defensive playcalling late that boggled the mind. And at the very least, if Haslett was unduly and/or inappropriately hamstrung or influenced by Shanahan, I'd expect any self-respecting NFL coordinator to put a stop to that, or walk.

Suffering in silence (IF, in fact, there was actually any suffering going on, I mean other than that experienced by Redskins fans watching our defense) is not acceptable. Being muzzled, interfered with, and undermined (again, if ANY of that actually happened) and saying nary a word - well, it's gutless and lame. If that really was going on in DC, Haslett had an obligation to do something about it. He didn't.

Shanahan has been burned, not just in effigy, but literally. He's been run out of town and villified, maybe rightfully so, and maybe not so rightfully in every instance. There are no more excuses for Jim Haslett (or as I refer to him, Jim Hasletthemscoreagain). From here on out, his built in scapegoat is no more, excuses will be scant for the finding. Good or bad, it's all on him. I ain't a believer. But I'll be happy to be proven horribly, horribly wrong.
Click to expand...

No need to apologize, the media people I follow agree with you!! :)

It's the redskins organization, players, and staff that have come up with this idea that Mike Shanahan handcuffed the entire defense and that now that he's gone things will be better.

But I'm with you on the issue. For the most part. Where I differ is that I think Haslett was handicapped because the organization spent all its time acquiring offensive talent and gave Haslett not much to work with in the form of quality, young players.

But I've read enough criticisms from people here that I know for a fact know more about this sort of stuff than I do, that I am very hesitant in feeling that way. The fact that Haslett is still here doesn't make me lose my mind, nor think we're going to be awful. But if I was the one in charge, and the general consensus of BGO was my advisers - I'd be forced to have replaced him with the rest of the staff...

In fact, to answer Om's question, I actually feel good about our defense. I think Amerson is going to pan out, and I think we did a good job keeping Orakpo one more year and bringing in Hatcher.

To me, my concerns:
Safety- Clark is a stop gap and Meriweather is barely a stop gap. We need 2 young safeties and we need them now
Corner - I love Amerson - can we go to the Amerson store this year and get another Amerson that'll be ready for 2015? What does that cost?
D Line - We don't have any impact players, unless Hatcher becomes one. We need more.
Linebacker - No solution for Orakpo if he doesn't play well enough to keep him (or if he isn't interested in staying), and we need depth really badly here.
 
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tshile said:
No need to apologize, the media people I follow agree with you!! :)

It's the redskins organization, players, and staff that have come up with this idea that Mike Shanahan handcuffed the entire defense and that now that he's gone things will be better.
But I'm with you on the issue. For the most part. Where I differ is that I think Haslett was handicapped because the organization spent all its time acquiring offensive talent and gave Haslett not much to work with in the form of quality, young players.

But I've read enough criticisms from people here that I know for a fact know more about this sort of stuff than I do, that I am very hesitant in feeling that way. The fact that Haslett is still here doesn't make me lose my mind, or think we're going to be awful. But if I was the one in charge, and the general consensus of BGO was my advisers - I'd be forced to have replaced him with the rest of the staff...
Click to expand...


The bolded part above (emphasis mine) is what I want to see play out. Reality or not, this is pretty clearly what they believe. It is disturbing in one regard that we haven't seen a lot of accountability, but instead some veiled shots (and some not so veiled) at Shanahan. And a lot of that is deserved, certainly. But I am hoping that in private moments, there is some recognition that despite all the drama and poor coaching, Griffin (for instance) just didn't play well at times (a lot of times, actually) last year. SOME of the problems were from poor play and execution rather than the cluster-eff we had on the coaching level.

On the other hand, if the Shanahan's caused the team to come together, even after they left, and form a cohesive unit, then certainly some good came out of this. It's why I have NO problem with Griffin's movement thing; for now, he seems to be trying to bring his teammates together. Having that common goal of showing the world that it was in fact all Mike Shanahan's fault can be a good thing. And it can work for Haslett too.

I'm not convinced it will, but I am truly genuinely interested in finding out.
 
Oh another comment...

Our defense's production is going to sink or swim based on our offense. If we're Captain 3-And-Out again for the first half the season, our defense will not be able to do anything. If we're able to run an offense similar to the way we did in 2012 (Making the most of every drive, being a threat to score every drive, wining the field position battle, winning the time of possession battle) then I think our defense is going to be able to dominate.
 
tshile said:
Oh another comment...

Our defense's production is going to sink or swim based on our offense. If we're Captain 3-And-Out again for the first half the season, our defense will not be able to do anything. If we're able to run an offense similar to the way we did in 2012 (Making the most of every drive, being a threat to score every drive, wining the field position battle, winning the time of possession battle) then I think our defense is going to be able to dominate.
Click to expand...

I agree with the gist of your post, but your last word throws me. Even during our nice little 12 run, I wouldn't say our defense dominated. I'd say it was solid, perhaps even good, but not great, and not, in my mind, dominant. I'm not sure I believe in Haz enough to think we will ever be dominant under him, regardless of personnel.
 
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