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Redskins Relieve Mike Shanahan of Duties

this team was in shambles four years ago post Zorn. how does one consistently argue that we are not better off but that we can turn it around pretty fast? the first two years of Shanahan were spent un-eff'ing the mess Snyderatto created with cap management, draft picks and the roster....not to mention simply running professional practices.


because if you gave ME the team that shanny took over, I could have gotten that team to the playoffs with a decent offence and some tweaks on defence, and I would have still had draft picks to use, now we have a good qb a good RB both of which will be helped by a real NFL Oline, and on defence we can get by with some smoke and mirrors for a season and then use draft picks and free agency, a good gm and coach could have us competitive and in the playoffs in 2 years.
 
as for the contention that shanny was resource constrained, thats ignoring that when he took over the clear weakness of this team was on the offencive sde of the ball, with a full on rebuild needed, he also decided to completely blow up the defence, and 4 years later this defence still looks like a year one in a brand new scheme unit. that tells you everything you need to know about how we are " better off" . yes the offence is improved but now we have a qb coming off an injury who will be behind a developing Oline, and on D we have yet another complete rebuild only now without a stud MLB or all pro DT to build around, we have a good OLB who isnt spectacular, a solid OLB who should be a DE who we may not even resign and thus get nothing for, and not much else on defence, when shanny took over we had several solid starters.
 
because if you gave ME the team that shanny took over, I could have gotten that team to the playoffs with a decent offence and some tweaks on defence, and I would have still had draft picks to use, now we have a good qb a good RB both of which will be helped by a real NFL Oline, and on defence we can get by with some smoke and mirrors for a season and then use draft picks and free agency, a good gm and coach could have us competitive and in the playoffs in 2 years.

uh huh. by the charm of your personality and deep knowledge of NFL operations the players would just immediately fall in line and perform at championship levels. and the opposing coaches? they simply would be steam-rolled by you!

not picking on you Rye. but claims like this from those of us who aren't in the business are somewhat far-fetched. wouldn't you agree?
 
as for the contention that shanny was resource constrained, thats ignoring that when he took over the clear weakness of this team was on the offencive sde of the ball, with a full on rebuild needed, he also decided to completely blow up the defence, and 4 years later this defence still looks like a year one in a brand new scheme unit. that tells you everything you need to know about how we are " better off" . yes the offence is improved but now we have a qb coming off an injury who will be behind a developing Oline, and on D we have yet another complete rebuild only now without a stud MLB or all pro DT to build around, we have a good OLB who isnt spectacular, a solid OLB who should be a DE who we may not even resign and thus get nothing for, and not much else on defence, when shanny took over we had several solid starters.

well...we have disagreed on this for a while. you persist in thinking we had a good D at one time. I think it has always sucked. it had statistically good seasons now and then, but what I recall is a D that was NEVER dominant. moreover, I remember a D that consistently played a bend but don't break brand of football more than anything else. so, there dis validity in your argument about an un-successful transition. I, however, don't buy into the argument that somehow the previous incarnation of this Defense was this magnificent piece of championship machinery. it wasn't. almost every time it encountered a really good offense it had its arse handed to it. in particular, it never manifested superior pass and run defense at the same time. I can only recall one really good year - the first season Williams was here. after that? eh....mediocre. constant search for a capable secondary. mediocre pass rush. constant turn-over in personnel. constant hirings of over-the-hill former stars.
 
Why do you guys have to personalize these discussions? No one called your wife a fat whore. Relax :)

Reading all the back and forth, what strikes me is how pathetic it is arguing whether the mess we are currently in is better than the mess we were formerly in. That tells you all you really need to know.

cmon now good sir! that's a word game. well, here's mine: if I'm on a ship and somehow, however inefficiently, the ship is navigated closer to my destination....well then...something positive has happened. and that's the core of the argument here - whether we are getting closer to the destination - even if only marginally.

still luv ya brotha! semper fi!!
 
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The Eagles were 4-12 and the Chiefs were 2-14, both are in the postseason in 2013.

The Rams were 5-11 in 1998 and won the Super Bowl at 13-3 in 1999.

Our own Redskins were 5-11 in 2011 and were 10-6 and playoff bound in 2012.

There is no question in my mind this team can be revitalized and climb in the standings back to being a competitive team in 2014 with a solid coaching hire and a good offseason in free agency and the draft.

In the era of NFL parity, the league is set up for teams to rise or fall quickly. Few teams maintain elite status year after year.

The Redskins have two quarterbacks that have NFL talent, a 24 year old 2-time 1,000 yard rusher, a receiver coming off a 110 catch season, a pro bowl left tackle and a rookie TE that looked to be on track to set Redskins TE records before he went out with the concussion.

So, there is hope here. The cupboard is not bare.

But there is a lot of work to do as well.
 
Yeah considering the weak division and the last place schedule we could easily win 10 games next year even with the same roster so of course add a few FA's and we'd surely be better, doesn't mean we won't be the Browns either though lol.
 
well...we have disagreed on this for a while. you persist in thinking we had a good D at one time. I think it has always sucked. it had statistically good seasons now and then, but what I recall is a D that was NEVER dominant. moreover, I remember a D that consistently played a bend but don't break brand of football more than anything else. so, there dis validity in your argument about an un-successful transition. I, however, don't buy into the argument that somehow the previous incarnation of this Defense was this magnificent piece of championship machinery. it wasn't. almost every time it encountered a really good offense it had its arse handed to it. in particular, it never manifested superior pass and run defense at the same time. I can only recall one really good year - the first season Williams was here. after that? eh....mediocre. constant search for a capable secondary. mediocre pass rush. constant turn-over in personnel. constant hirings of over-the-hill former stars.

You are arguing something that I am not saying, you are seeing this in absolutes.

was the defence good enough to win on its own? nope. was it good enough to win with any kind of half assed offence? I would say yes.

the stats dont lie, the defence was decent, I never said it was awesome, I said it had potential with some tweaks to be very good, instead we have watched 4 years of absolute garbage with no end in sight without a massive infusion of talent and a scheme change.
 
As far as Vinny vs. Shanahan...just to throw it out there, but if Sean Taylor never passes, Vinny could have been the architect of one of the top defensive units in the game. Of course, then Gregggg probably stays in DC, and its us instead of the Saints who get hammered for "Bountygate."
 
You are arguing something that I am not saying, you are seeing this in absolutes.

was the defence good enough to win on its own? nope. was it good enough to win with any kind of half assed offence? I would say yes.

the stats dont lie, the defence was decent, I never said it was awesome, I said it had potential with some tweaks to be very good, instead we have watched 4 years of absolute garbage with no end in sight without a massive infusion of talent and a scheme change.

it's a reasonable retort Rye...but not what I am thinking. I don't think those defenses were good enough to win with even with a good offense. what I remember, again, is teams marching up and down the field. in the playoffs, when up against other good defenses.....being mid-tier isn't going to cut it. this year's defense was abysmal. I just don't think any of the past defense were really all that much to be excited about either. I thought at various times they managed to play stout run defense but that the pass defenses were always consistently average to weak.

there was a day, back in Gibbs I, when I could watch a game, come across a 3rd and short, think "ok Skins....gotta hold em"...with reasonable confidence they would. and they did. this last decade and more? ha!!! never. heck...these defense have become dependable for giving up first downs on 3rd and long. My mindset for years now has been "ok, how are they gong to blow this third and long this time".
 
The Patriots went to the Super Bowl in 2011 with a defense ranked 30th.

With parity if you are dominant on one side if the ball you are usually a contender.

Weren't the Redskins defenses in the bottom half or worse in both 1999 and 2012 when they won the division?
 

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