A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
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  1. #1
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    Default RI: Portis: No need for Snyder to apologize

    http://voices.washingtonpost.com/red...yder-to-a.html

    Receiver Santana Moss said fans who turn their back on the team, "To me, that's not a real fan.

    "For the ones that's truly behind us, you feel sorry and we are ashamed," Moss said. "But to the ones that's not, we're still ashamed. But there's nothing we can do about what you're letting out to us with your anger and signs and whatever else you got going."

    Portis also used his media availability Wednesday to clarify his relationship with Snyder. The joke around Redskins Park is that Joe Gibbs used to call Portis an assistant general manager.

    "Our relationship has been under so much scrutiny, and everyone think I get my own way and that I run to Mr. Snyder. I don't," Portis said. "I have a working relationship with Mr. Snyder. ...I think it's a great thing when you can go into work and speak to your boss. I've never had a 9-to-5, but I'm sure in the regular world, you speak to your boss when you go to work.

    "So many people feel that I'm in charge and so many people [are] so worried about our relationship. I don't think our relationship is nothing major. I think we speak, we talk, we laugh, we joke and so on. I've never spent the night at his house or did anything special. It's just a cool relationship.

    (click on link for rest of article)
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    preach on santana!!

    i slipped for a minute joining that "turn in your fan card" group but I stopped myself quickly...
    Any thoughts on Portis' comments on his "special relationship" with Snyder?

    I find that deeply troubling on top all of the other stuff Snyder's been up to lately.
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    Problem with football is, your boss is suppose to be the head coach. Portis goes to the Owner instead.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennSkinsfan View Post
    Problem with football is, your boss is suppose to be the head coach. Portis goes to the Owner instead.
    Bingo.

    That's what I found most disturbing.

    Wholesale change at Redskins Park is needed - not just firing Vinny.
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    I think most fans haven't given up on the team, but are frustrated with things. This time fans have given up on the FO and Organization. Fans are still supporting the players.

    Heard interesting comment this morning regarding how sports fans interact with teams. Comment was made most sports fans just show up and go home.
    Now you're beginning to see a new type of fan. One that is more like a consumer. One that is willing to use speak up to voice their opinion in a number of ways.

    I see many Redskins fans becoming consumers. We're telling Snyder we aren't happy and demand change. You hit these owners in their pocket books or embarrass them and they will take notice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PennSkinsfan View Post
    Problem with football is, your boss is suppose to be the head coach. Portis goes to the Owner instead.
    I don't know about you but I am on speaking terms with my boss, her boss and her boss's boss. I have the cell numbers and can call them anytime. Just to make the comparison a bit more direct, my boss is a VP, her boss is the EVP of Worldwide Sales, her boss's boss is the President/CEO of the company and I very much the equal of Portis in this scenario in that I am just a worker bee with no management oversight at all except for myself.

    I don't see a problem with him being able to talk to Snyder. The problem is how Snyder handles it and that is not Portis' fault. Good management 101...don't undercut your subordinates with their employees. Ever.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    my boss says all the time "my door is always open" and so do my directors and VPs. I have partied with them and hung out with them outside of work as well..

    and i work for a big corporation...
    I'm sure you don't call out your immediate boss to your VPs or directors, right?

    Does everyone at your level have the same access?

    I guess I feel like a football team should be run more like the military. The whole is greater than the sum of the parts. Having special relationships with the owner doesn't create that kind of culture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    who do you go to in the Skins organization if you have a problem with the coach?

    Vinny?
    Mike, I'm not trying to be facetious but the answer to your question might actually be yes. I'm not knowledgeable as to the existence or not of any either written or unwritten protocol as far as player/coach problem resolution but it would seem that in the organizational structure the next level above that of head coach would be that of GM-which Vinny Cerrato effectively is in the Redskin organization-therefore that would seem the logical person for a player to go to in such a case.
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    the players are simply ignoring Zorn. Especially the defensive guys that work for Blache. They know Zorn is on the way out, Sherm Lewis or no Sherm Lewis, so it doesn't matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tr1 View Post
    Take notice? Okay.

    But, what's he supposed to do? Fire Vinny, and then go into a self-imposed exile? That's the crap I hear from the 'fan carders'...hey, I bet he makes even more money next year, because I think this 'fan revolt' is a product of a DC media hyped movement because they have an ax to grind with DS.

    I wish we could get back to football.

    This off field stuff is pathetic.

    If Snyder were as tight as some owners and making this much money, that'd be a legitimate gripe. But the guy spends lavishly for talent...

    As for judge of talent, maybe he needs to hire a consultant to study Vinny.

    I think that's coming.
    Wow! Great points...if we were still living in 2003.

    For all Snyder's much extolled spending on F.A. stars, what has it gotten us? Where's the depth? How often during Snyder's decade of mediocrity have we concurrently had a decent starting OL and DL?

    So you expect me to believe that the press is responsible for the following:
    -Snyderatto's almost complete silence throughout this fiasco
    -Regarding the aforementioned silence, did the press fabricate the players' request for the F.O. to address Zorn's job security
    -Other Redskins players saying we don't have the talent or that ownership is responsible
    -Snyder's refusal to shake hands with the players/glaring after losses (corroborated by Arrington, G. Michael and Tre Johnson)
    -Speaking of big Tre, what about his stories about Snyder chewing out the HC during halftime of games...more press fabrications, eh?
    -The team's ham-handed attempts at censoring the fans (oh wait, you're probably buying the team's line that that was all just a big coincidence)
    -Our stellar W/L record under Snyderatto
    -Vanilla ice cream sent to Nolan and the plasma sent to Coles? Sent by the press to discredit Snyder
    -Who left Norv to twist in the wind for hours waiting to be fired? Yep, the press.
    -Who fired the F.O. support staff for no good reason after blatantly lying IN WRITING to them beforehand? I know, the press sent that fax.
    -After the firings of the F.O. staff by Lord Lilliput, who's responsible for the incompetency we've seen with off-field management, i.e. bulk ticket sales to brokers, lousy gameday experience, suing of fans, overzealous security, overzealous beer salesmen, etc. (since the team says these were just "mistakes")
    -Snyder's non-apology apology and ducking of difficult questions? I know, the press lied. He actually gave a heartfelt apology and answered all those questions.
    -Zorn's being stripped of playcalling duties and having to face the press alone? Yep, yet another press conspiracy to discredit a successful owner.
    -Vinny's contention that we fielded a playoff worthy team this season...that, even though we started the season with only one NFL caliber OT on the roster? Yep, the press again.

    Look, there's more but I'm not going to waste any more of my time. If you can actually think this team's problems are the fault of the press, you're either incredibly dense, Vinny Cerrato, or just willfully ignorant, or all of the above. I know we're shooting for a higher level of discourse here but I also have to call ''em like I see 'em and IMHO, there just isn't any other plausible explanation for your comments.

    Finally, if I sound a bit resentful of your dismissive attitude toward us "Fan Carders", there's a good reason for that. I am. Then again I suppose I should expect someone who still backs Dan Snyder to blame the fans and the press for the team's many shortcomings. After all, immitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
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    Last edited by Yusuf06; 11-05-09 at 02:37 AM.
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    I pretty much dismiss what Santana says because he wasn't a fan during the Norv years/Marty/SOS years and has not been with the team long enough to understand exactly WHY the fans are so upset.

    CP is just plain full of it. BD is right. As far as the players are concerned, Zorn is nothing more than a figurehead. He's the Head Coach in name only.

    Snyder apologized for everyone but himself. Disgraceful.
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    I can't wait for Portis and his mouth to leave
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    Quote Originally Posted by tr1 View Post
    Take notice? Okay.

    But, what's he supposed to do? Fire Vinny, and then go into a self-imposed exile? That's the crap I hear from the 'fan carders'...hey, I bet he makes even more money next year, because I think this 'fan revolt' is a product of a DC media hyped movement because they have an ax to grind with DS.

    I wish we could get back to football.

    This off field stuff is pathetic.

    If Snyder were as tight as some owners and making this much money, that'd be a legitimate gripe. But the guy spends lavishly for talent...

    As for judge of talent, maybe he needs to hire a consultant to study Vinny.

    I think that's coming.
    Granted Dan does spend lavishly for talent. Where has all this money and talent got us?

    You can spend all the money you want on big name FA's, but if you don't spend wisely and tend to rest of team you create a cluster.

    It would be like buying a car and spending lavishly on wheels and paint, but ignoring the maintenance on the engine. Looks good, but not reliable.

    I think 'fan revolt' is a movement we're beginning to witness. Fans in Cleveland and Kansas City have started revolts. We're now seeing fans letting the voices be heard. It's coming the the point where owners are going to have to listen to the fans. Not just the Snyder's, but all owners.

    This off field stuff if pathetic, but a result of the on field product. If Vinny and Snyder had paid attention to all aspects of the team and empowered a coach we probably wouldn't be having these conversations.

    I don't blame the media for this. If you listen to former players and coaches
    they all say the same thing. Snyder's football business model doesn't work. The organization is set up for failure.

    I have been a fan for over 40 years and will continue to do so. For years saw everything through burgundy colored glasses. Now...I'm tired of the poor product that is being put on the field. Like many other fans I am now speaking out so my voice can be heard.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tr1 View Post
    Five straight wins, and all of this non-sense is over...until the next losing streak. Such is the NFL.
    With all due respect, it's gonna take more than five. We've had plenty of five game winning streaks during this era. Flashes of greatness resulting in 8-9 win seasons is what got us into this mess. That treadmill has worn especially thin.

    And you now what? This is exactly ... EXACTLY what Snyder doesn't get. He thinks it's about the next five games. He always thinks that. We're way past caring about a third of a season.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    With all due respect, it's gonna take more than five. We've had plenty of five game winning streaks during this era. Flashes of greatness resulting in 8-9 win seasons is what got us into this mess. That treadmill has worn especially thin.

    And you now what? This is exactly ... EXACTLY what Snyder doesn't get. He thinks it's about the next five games. He always thinks that. We're way past caring about a third of a season.
    Exactly. He hasn't learned a damn thing. Had he said something like "We're going to look at the whole organization at the end of the year" there might have been a glimmer of hope. But from the sound of it, it looks like he still has the "If we trade for Ocho Sinko, all our troubles are over" mentality
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    Lest anyone think I'm jumping on a bandwagon of hate or that this is some sort of sudden outburst, here's what I thought of the team in July. Pretty much exactly what I'm saying now.

    https://www.bgobsession.com/showpost....31&postcount=3

    8-8. We start out strong but wear out and fall apart around week 7, particularly on offense.

    Until we actually do something else one of these years, that's what I gotta go with.
    https://www.bgobsession.com/showpost....0&postcount=15

    The stretch to watch is weeks 4 through 12. Somewhere during those middle 8 weeks we inevitably hit a wall and discover a losing streak.

    In fact, we haven't had a winning record during those eight weeks since 2001, when Marty Schottenheimer's Redskins started out 0-5 and then won five straight.

    Consistency is our problem. This team hasn't played a complete season in almost 20 years.
    https://www.bgobsession.com/showpost....4&postcount=22

    Our offense hasn't ranked higher than 11th since 1999 (and other than 2005 it hasn't topped 15th.)

    And that's our yardage ranking. Our ranking has been even worse in scoring offense in every year but one during that span (2003 when we were 23rd in yards and 22nd in points.)

    What have we really added this off-season to suddenly end a ten-year trend?

    I'm a simple man. I'll have to assume we'll be mediocre again this year until we actually, you know, do something else.
    I'm not posting this to toot my own horn, but to illustrate how painfully obvious this all was before the season even started. Because it's been this way for ten years.

    And yet I don't think Snyder sees it. Even now.

    If he does he's pretending he doesn't, maybe in the hopes that we don't.

    Either way his words mean very little at this point.
    Last edited by Henry; 11-05-09 at 10:57 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    With all due respect, it's gonna take more than five. We've had plenty of five game winning streaks during this era. Flashes of greatness resulting in 8-9 win seasons is what got us into this mess. That treadmill has worn especially thin.
    Sorry Henry but you are incorrect. A 5 game win streak will put most of the current fan unrest behind us. Granted, it won't do that for many of the guys here on this board but this group is not the average fan.

    You are, of course, correct that stuff like that is just exactly what has gotten us here though. A good run of luck and a flash of potential is what has kept the Front Office at Redskins Park thinking this team was just a player or two away for a decade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    And you now what? This is exactly ... EXACTLY what Snyder doesn't get. He thinks it's about the next five games. He always thinks that. We're way past caring about a third of a season.
    You are right about this but Dan is the average fan, just with more money, and for them it is all about the next game or the next 5 games or sweeping the series with Dallas. I honestly think few really consider the long term success of the team. They really go Sunday to Sunday just like they go paycheck to paycheck. It is the American way now.
    Last edited by Neophyte; 11-05-09 at 02:01 PM.
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    I gotta agree with Neo on this one. I visited a Tennessee Titan fan board Tuesday to see how their fans were reacting to the win-the're on cloud nine. Their viewing the opening winless stretch as a glitch-some of them are talking Wild Card even.

    What's even more telling is this-I read archived posts from ES, and even the other "non-football site" the owners here have that were made during last season's opening 6-2 run. Zorn was a Godsend, Campbell had dispelled doubts, the team had playoff hopes-optimism was everywhere.

    This is true for other teams as well. I perused Denver Broncos fan boards also-prior to the Baltimore loss they were talking as though a SB was no worse than a 50/50 chance. After the loss? Kyle Orton's overrated-full of weaknesses-some of them are lamenting the loss of Cutler-Josh McDaniel too inexperienced for the job...etc.

    I do think Henry's right in that some long-term fans will remain unsatisfied until demonstration of consistent above .500 play is evident, however, much of the "noise" being generated in the anger and frustration of fans aimed at the organization, Zorn, Campbell, any number of players will diminish noticeably by a 4 or 5 game winning streak. Were the Skins to actually be in the playoffs next season-I'd almost bet that 80% of the current hubbub will diminish to a murmur. It seems that's just how fans are-I'm not saying it's good or bad-those words don't apply-it's just something I've observed.

    Oh, the media thing. I think Snyder made a bad strategic decision back in 2002 when he stopped talking to the media-that pisses them off-especially when it's not a common behavior among team owners. Had he engaged the media-at least to the point of informational press conferences, statements, something the flak would be at least diminished somewhat. Arguing with someone may make them angry-but ignoring them? You've made an instant enemy.
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    I don't know guys. I think it's going to take more than another 8-8 season. A late season surge is just going to make losing to the Chiefs, Loins and Panthers hurt that much more.

    I'll concede that if we finish strong this year and then go 11-5 or so next year all will be forgotten. And it should be, because it will mean we have figured something out. Just like 2-5 now after an 8-8 season means we haven't.
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    A 5-game win streak would appease many fans but a sweep of Dallas would likely do even more. Not for me, though. It WOULD, however, make me want to watch the games with the excitement I used to have.
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