Will Griffin succeed as a Pocket passer?

Yes sur reeee

As a general rule Most pocket qbs take more than 2 yrs to develop. It has just been recent that we are seeing more teams pushing them out on the field as a rookie. Luck is struggling as well but I don't think that's indicative of a low ceiling. Wilson has done the best so far but he has a better coach better oline and a superb defense.

McD5 said:

I respect that opinion, but I believe it will play out differently.

The odds of another injury are high, and the odds of ever being the QB he was last year are very low.

If a real coach comes in, I"d expect him to lay down the law with Dan, and with decision-making prior to signing a contract.

If we are bad again next year, and the coach believes that RG3's ceiling is low, then he won't hesitate to go after a guy that will be as coveted as Luck was.

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Miles Monroe said:

Come on now.... dam near every Skins fan said WTF with Zorn being moved up to head coach. No misgivings what so ever. There were lots of folks not with the Haz hiring, and find a fan that hasn't come to realize he sucks pond water up his butt that had been on the fence before. Ya, Shanny didn't have the best record as coach / GM, but the other option was Jim Fassle. You're saying you would have rather had Fassle ?

As for the injury, you can't compare the two as everybody is different. People with completely different builds, and playing different positions. Had Peterson not come back so quickly, everybody would be on board with the two season rehab we have been accustomed to for a long time with this type of injury.

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As for the first paragraph, most seem to be in agreement. But our fans are just as delusional as cowgirls fans. I don't mean here, I mean more like at the "other" site, and on twitter.

Here's another one: Shanny has been a bad GM, has had terrible Ds, and NEVER had a cap penalty in Denver. NEVER. But let's see how he'll do here with no penalty! Ignore all of the bad coaches he's assembled. His best years are just ahead!

And has there ever, even once in history, been a QB that has come back from not one, but two ACLs before?

RG3 may turn out to have as good of a career as Vick had, and that's a good thing. We can even sneak into a SB with that kind of QB play, and have some exciting seasons.

Or, it's just as likely that we're now watching the next Kordell Stewart, Vice Young or Culpepper.

Miles Monroe said:

Ya, Shanny didn't have the best record as coach / GM, but the other option was Jim Fassle. You're saying you would have rather had Fassle ?

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Fassel was the other option when Zorn was hired. I was all for Fassel over Zorn at the time. He at least took a team to the Super Bowl once, and it wasn't even that great of a team. They just overachieved even more than the Coughlin teams did but of course they had to face the Ravens D.

SkinsFTW said:

Fassel was the other option when Zorn was hired. I was all for Fassel over Zorn at the time. He at least took a team to the Super Bowl once, and it wasn't even that great of a team. They just overachieved even more than the Coughlin teams did but of course they had to face the Ravens D.

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Dam, I'm loosing it a bit, I'd have sworn it was this time around. I think most fans would have taken a cold corndog over Zorn

Miles Monroe said:

Dam, I'm loosing it a bit, I'd have sworn it was this time around. I think most fans would have taken a cold corndog over Zorn

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Remember Zorn was the name Fassel recommended to Snyder to be his OC when he was hired but they signed Zorn first and the fans revolted over Fassel, but is that really the reason Snyder changed his mind? Too bad more fans didn't revolt over Sham. Allen could have gone after his buddy Gruden and we'd probably be in this same position anyway, but with a worse offense.

At least seeing Chucky on the sideline watching our team get dismantled would be semi-entertaining. Shanahan would be in the MNF booth talking about how much he loved that RG3 guy coming out of college and how he couldn't believe that Gruden was benching him for 45 year old Jeff Garcia.

Will Griffin EVER succeed as a pocket passing QB?

Or will Griffin ever succeed as a QB in the NFL?

Yes.

Griffin has everything necessary to be a top tier QB in this league... early in the game against New York. I watched him make multiple reads, going through his progressions, 2 and 3 recievers deep. Getting all the way to his check down. Then who knows what happened and the offense stalled. Over the course of that same game, that ability diminished. What does that tell me? Griffin had plays scripted.. he knew who was going to be where and he believed in those plays.

The only thing I can think of, is that the script ended. Then his production did too. When they rin a 2 minute drill or no huddle, I have to believe there is a ascript in play.. an if/then if you will. If we get a first down, run this play.... more and more, a disconnect berween him and kyle is apparent. Maybe there is no confidence in the plays coming from kyle after the script has ended.. or no confidence in himself....

If indeed its a confidence issue, whether it be in himself, or the playbook, its absolutely something he can overcome in time. A lot of his struggle has been mental. Whether its thinking about the brace, getting happy feet, whatever it may be.. the areas of struggle are all in areas we have seen him execute before. Hitting a reciever deep, or a down and out, the ball is sailing but we have seen him make that throw. Not making his progression, stepping up instead of running back into the pass rush, again... something we have seen him execute.

Its going to take confidence in all aspects of it.. himself, the line, the play. There obviously is a massive disconnect at Redskins park, and now that its looking more like Shanny wants out... who says hes even been giving Griffin the tutelage and direction to help him? If he doesnt feel supported by his coach, how can he have confidence?

The last part I touched on was the line. He needs to believe he will have time, otherwise he gets happy feet, rushing progressions and throws... usually resulting izn overthrows. You ever norice how in baseball, when a fielder rushes the throw, it doesnt usually go in the dirt, it goes into the stands? It all needs a level of harmony for any QB to have success....

Griff absolutely has the tools, knowledge, and ability to be an effective NFL QB... he just needs some help.

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SilentThreat said:

Griffin has everything necessary to be a top tier QB in this league... early in the game against New York. I watched him make multiple reads, going through his progressions, 2 and 3 recievers deep. Getting all the way to his check down. Then who knows what happened and the offense stalled. Over the course of that same game, that ability diminished. What does that tell me? Griffin had plays scripted.. he knew who was going to be where and he believed in those plays.

The only thing I can think of, is that the script ended. Then his production did too.

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What makes me wonder is when somebody like Steve Young is on TV showing how Griffin blows one of the easiest plays in the offense and throws to the only receiver he looks for who is covered while 2 others are wide open but he never sees it. Why didn't Mike Shanahan have Kyle or somebody who understands every detail of the offense sit down with RG3 and make him cram on scheme and game tape all 8 months like a student stuck in a blizzard? Which is really what RG3 was, he couldn't practice, couldn't train with the team. He could have at least been learning everything and how to defeat a defense. Which seems he has no idea how to deal with once the season started and he was in there. Everybody knows that he's smart so why does he look lost on the field?

FTW, Cooley is saying the same thing. Missing wide open receivers, only looking to one side of the field, staring one guy down, not seeing the rush, etc.

You understand he was rehabbing almost every minute of the day, right? Because he blew his knee out and had a total repair done?

And if you watch the games you'll notice that when Griffin has gotten protection he looks a lot more like last years version than this years in terms of making reads, seeing open receivers, etc...

Until he is afforded some protection I think he gets a pass on some of the poor play, particularly when he came back so quickly from a total knee repair and (being human) has to have not re injuring that knee heavily weighing in the back of his mind. You guys really have amazingly short memories. Griffin is going to be a great QB.

Give the man a good offensive line and he will be a pocket passer, a read option, a pistol, and a play action QB. And he will be better than ever.

And if we can steal this guy for a mid round pick, then RT is one less issue in the offseason.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-s...han-martin-highest-bidder-175833324--nfl.html

^^^ Hell I wonder if we could even snag him for a late round pick. Maybe the media will paint the skins in a different/merciful light. LOL... Just kidding they'll hate us forever but still rather a jr high RT than the pile of lama shit that is Polumbus.

Burgundy Burner said:

Give the man a good offensive line and he will be a pocket passer, a read option, a pistol, and a play action QB. And he will be better than ever.

And if we can steal this guy for a mid round pick, then RT is one less issue in the offseason.

Y! SPORTS

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The thing still cracking me up is we took LeRib over Russell Wilson. I think Shanahan had the right idea and should have just went after 3 QB's in that draft since he openly admits to having no idea how to protect one, hell he won't even give game time to the guard he chose before Wilson was picked by Seattle. Dude is probably 50/50 as being the next Super Bowl MVP too.

I've watched some of the replays of Griffin missing wide open receivers. That happens to all qbs when a pass rush is allowed to disrupt the pocket. Seriously though How often could we call it a pocket? Outside of Reed and Garcon the pass catching has been erratic and undependable. I'm not a coach and don't pretend to be but my focus would be giving my qb a comfort zone to operate in. I'm sorry but there are guys on the street that can block as well or better than our right side. Cap or no cap we have two starters on the right side of the line that aren't NFL quality.
Or maybe Griffin and the Offense has regressed because they practice against the "wet paper bag with a hole" in it we call a defense.

SkinsFTW said:

What makes me wonder is when somebody like Steve Young is on TV showing how Griffin blows one of the easiest plays in the offense and throws to the only receiver he looks for who is covered while 2 others are wide open but he never sees it. Why didn't Mike Shanahan have Kyle or somebody who understands every detail of the offense sit down with RG3 and make him cram on scheme and game tape all 8 months like a student stuck in a blizzard? Which is really what RG3 was, he couldn't practice, couldn't train with the team. He could have at least been learning everything and how to defeat a defense. Which seems he has no idea how to deal with once the season started and he was in there. Everybody knows that he's smart so why does he look lost on the field?

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Steve Young is the perfect example of this. Steve Young sat behind Montana (arguably the greatest qb of all time) and learned. He watched the first team reps in practice, watched them translate to the field on game day from the sidelines, then got to watch film and break it down. Griffin wasn't given that opportunity, which is the pattern of the new NFL.

Last year we ran a style of offense that Griffin would make his play fake, read his first option, and if it wasn't there he'd take off running. A lot of times the option was there, and he would hit his receiver. Now the Shanny's are running a more "conventional" base scheme, with read option sprinkled in, where Griffin has to make multiple reads... But he didn't have an offseason to work on it, on field. He's been learning this system with live bullets in the chamber all year long. It's not fair to expect him to be able to change his base offense without having at MINIMUM an offseason to develop his fundamentals to make it work. How anyone can expect him to go from one type of offense to another effectively, without any time on-field in the offseason/preseason is not fair.

I was an advocate for him to play week 1 and beyond. If he's healthy, he needed to play early on this season. That being said, I didn't expect them to completely change what they expect from him. Granted he didn't have the same explosion out of his legs early on, which obviously changed his ability to run after that initial read, but maybe things would have been different if they hadn't pounded into his head to make multiple reads.

The whole situation was setup to struggle. You have a QB who came back wicked fast after major injury, you have a changing offense to more of a "pocket" style vs "college" style, and you have a (now) apparent lack of motivation by the coaching staff....

Boone said:

You understand he was rehabbing almost every minute of the day, right? Because he blew his knee out and had a total repair done?

And if you watch the games you'll notice that when Griffin has gotten protection he looks a lot more like last years version than this years in terms of making reads, seeing open receivers, etc...

Until he is afforded some protection I think he gets a pass on some of the poor play, particularly when he came back so quickly from a total knee repair and (being human) has to have not re injuring that knee heavily weighing in the back of his mind. You guys really have amazingly short memories. Griffin is going to be a great QB.

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I think he has the tools to be a great QB. But even with the crappy line, it seems like he should have developed more after 13 games. It may simply be, as you say, tied to his injury and recovery. I think I'm paranoid because of how other young QB's have faired here after we've gotten the snot kicked out of them for a season. I'd much rather he finish the season out with Shanahan adding more rollouts to keep the rush more honest. They definitely didn't due enough scheming to reduce some of the lines shortcoming's. Maybe without the injury the transition into the pocket game could have been much slower and much more integrated with plays to his strength, lessening the learning curve pain.

Seeing all these criticisms of Griffin make me question my own football knowledge. Because I have seen him read a defense. I have seen him go through different routes before making a decision (both in college & the NFL). I have seen him throw to his secondary and tertiary options (not much this year because he has two routes to choose from, lol). I have seen him extend a play with his legs and make ridiculous throws to a safety valve. Does he do them consistently? No, but I chalk that up to inexperience. But the main point is that he can do them.

Who here hasn't made mistakes? Would you want your career judged solely on the biggest mistakes you've ever made?

i think you're spot on, but the problem is we paid dearly to acquire him.

right now he's looking more and more like a project QB, which is not something worthy of so many picks.

that could all change with any combination of: O line upgrade, a different play caller, ST that doesn't suck, defense that doesn't suck, not having a brace...

who knows. at this point i have a hard time thinking anyone is wrong about anything with this team.

tshile said:

i think you're spot on, but the problem is we paid dearly to acquire him.

right now he's looking more and more like a project QB, which is not something worthy of so many picks.

that could all change with any combination of: O line upgrade, a different play caller, ST that doesn't suck, defense that doesn't suck, not having a brace...

who knows. at this point i have a hard time thinking anyone is wrong about anything with this team.

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It happens with guys that have enormous upside though. Look at Christian Ponder...was that dude worth the 10th overall pick? No chance! He was a second-or-third round QB. But the Jags jumped up to draft him, because they knew someone else probably would if they didn't (or at least they thought they would).

In a sense, all draft picks are "projects" to some degree. Did we overpay? Probably...but if we hadn't, Cleveland was offering the same deal and would have taken him at 2nd overall also. Maybe we'd be better off today, but that's hindsight. I for one am confident that Griffin will overcome these things - he works too hard not to. He's no Mike Vick who spends the offseason strangling and drowning dogs in his spare time instead of getting better.

I keep reminding myself that Griffin is barely old enough to buy liquor. He's maturing in front of our eyes but when things go as bad as they have. He's wound up tight just like any other qb with only 3 wins would be. Griffin needs a coach. Cousins will play under the exact same conditions. I expect the Change to help against the Falcons. I expect it will be hard to gameplan our team this week. I'm ok with making Griffin inactive...I would rather see him play but I don't want him on the active roster if he isn't going to play. "I think the locker room doesn't need the distraction" as Griffin stated is pretty darn good ending to that drama. Had Griffin gone down the other road and insisted that he should play and the coach is to blame...I would have really questioned my opinion of him. He's a fine young man, he keeps his nose clean with the law...he doesn't have the reputation for the club scene and has a stable home and family. The Knee Brace will be removed we will have a new head coach. I like the chances with him at the helm with Cousins as backup or a 1st rounder and....?