Burner's Burning Questions: Week Thirteen, Getting New Coaches Or Status Quo

tshile said:

Only part? He created the contracts. Shanahan/Allen tried to maneuver out of them, and couldn't.

The original contracts were the entire problem. The original contracts were done by Snyder and Cerrato.

I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing. Me telling you you're wrong is not arguing for the sake of arguing. I'm participating in a conversation.

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You just said it, the maneuver was what caused the problem that cost us significant players! The original contracts were not the entire problem and you're just arguing for argument's sake.

No you're not "participating in a conversation", you're arguing because you enjoy it, except your argument has no validity. What you're trying to do is ruffle feathers long enough for me to verbally call you a jack ass or dick or something else that could have consequences, but I am not going to do it. You are 100% wrong for thinking Shanahan was not part of the problem, you are the only person on this site who is giving him a complete pass on the cap hit. You're wrong.

Enough said.

Your argument would only be valid if keeping the original contracts would have freed up space to get players. Which isn't possible. It's just not that complicated.

I'm not giving him a pass. I'm just not twisting reality to fit some narrative I have about the staff.

In 2009 the Redskins signed Deangelo hall to a 6 year, 55 million dollar contract - 23 million was guaranteed [1]

In 2009 the Redskins signed Albert Haynesworth to a 7 year, 100 million dollar contract - 32 million over the first 13 months, a total of 41 million guaranteed [2]

In March of 2010 the Redskins resetructured both contracts to move a bulk of money into the uncapped year. They were trying to dump the impact of the contracts in a way that would allow the team to move on without those players in the future without paying it salary cap wise [3]

The net gain was 36 million for the Redskins by moving the money into that year. Hence the 36 million dollar penalty. That number is not a mystical one that comes out of thin air. It's to offset the money the Redskins would have gained.

Shanahan and Allen had nothing to do with those contracts. Their options were:
A - Let the player contracts stay, deal with the players and the cap space eaten up
B - Try this maneuver and see if it works out. If it does you gain all this cap space and can easily discard these players when you see fit. If it doesn't you're not any worse off.

The problem was fundamentally with the original contracts that were created by Snyder and Cerrato. The cap penalty was given to the team because of an accounting maneuver the league wouldn't go along with, but that doesn't make the problem the fault of Shanahan and Allen.

I don't actually disagree with the league. I think the cap penalty is deserved. We screwed things up for many other owners with our ridiculous spending and contracts. Why should we get to wash our hands of all the crap we've caused because of a loophole caused by a break down in negotiations between the players and the owners? The owners certainly weren't going to be able to wash their hands of the problems the redskins had created for them (increasing player contracts.) We were made to suffer for a decade+ of managerial dysfunction and ineptitude. I realize a lot of people here disagree with my take on it, that's fine with me, I understand my opinion is not a popular one.

But none of that changes the fact that the fundamental problem was two really bad contracts created by Cerrato and Snyder that were going to eat up 36 million in cap space one way or the other. They chose to try to get away with some trickery to try to get out of it, it didn't work. It doesn't make the actual problem their doing.


1 - DeAngelo Hall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
2 - Albert Haynesworth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
3 - FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | Under the Cap: Redskins Utilizing the Uncapped Year

You guys are missing the salient point.

While Shanahan had been an improvement over Zorn/Cerrato he still shows the same impatience in building a winner.

From the McNabb trade to the deal of 4 high picks to the Rams for Griffin, Mike seems intent on hitting the home run ball or striking out.

That all or nothing is risky and often doesn't work out.

You go back to the Herschel Walker trade or the more recent trade of Carson Palmer to Oakland for 2 first round picks.

These mega deals usually work out for the team getting the picks more than the team getting the one player because football is a team game and you need 53 players.

This isn't the NBA where the Lakers could make two mega trades for Kareem and then the pick for Magic and be set up for 10 years of winning championships.

Coach Shanahan could've traded GooButt for a third rounder and just before a $21 million hit on the cap. The Titans were willing to take that hit. It doesn't excuse the contract maneuvering and hoping the league looks the other way, but all of it (minus DHall) could've been avoided with one simple trade and reap a higher pick in that upcoming draft.

I thought guaranteed money wouldn't go with a trade, unless the other team was willing to eat it? Is that wrong, or were the titans willing to eat the money?