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Why wouldn't the Redskins sue the league? And Tandler's thoughts.

tshile said:
I guess part of my problem is i'm not 100% sold that the redskins didn't deserve the cap penalties they got.

I understand it's colluding -
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Gonna stop you there...that's the end of the important information. The league screwed us by colluding. End of story. Not to mention, the owner of our division rivals was the one who blew the whistle, when other teams did the same thing.

Did we used to write awful contracts? Sure. But now we are trying to fix it, and they used a perfectly valid loophole to do so. End of story.

because I **** Goodell
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I mean, whatever floats your boat... ;)
 
Lanky Livingston said:
:argue:

Difference of opinion, bro - let it go.
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Seriously? You're not going to answer the question? That must mean you think they were following the policies on the books, which means you think when the league does right by us it's only because they're forced to follow policy but when bad things happen to us it's because they're out to get us, policy be damned.
;)
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Gonna stop you there...that's the end of the important information. The league screwed us by colluding. End of story. Not to mention, the owner of our division rivals was the one who blew the whistle, when other teams did the same thing.
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Yup. That's how the business works.

Were you one of the ones that were up in arms about the redskins breaking contract negotiation and free agency policies for the last 10 years when we signed the big names 10 minutes into free agency with block buster deals?

I think those are called tampering rules.

I don't seem to recall redskins nation caring much about that, in fact I seem to recall many people gloating about it. It's funny how people arbitrarily pick which rules matter and which ones done, or when it matters that they're being broken and when it doesn't ;)
 
tshile said:
Seriously? You're not going to answer the question? That must mean you think they were following the policies on the books, which means you think when the league does right by us it's only because they're forced to follow policy but when bad things happen to us it's because they're out to get us, policy be damned.
;)
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How many other players were smoking freely during the "acceptable" period, and then magically weren't tested when the unacceptable period started? You find an answer of zero to that question, and I'll admit the league wasn't effing with us when those suspensions happened. Are Trent and Fred the only two dumbasses in the entire NFL? I doubt it...I'm sure there were plenty of guys who just got "lucky" when it came to testing. And I'm positive a lot of those guys play for the Giants and/or Patriots.
 
tshile said:
Yup. That's how the business works.
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Redskins getting screwed for the same things other teams were doing? Glad we're finally starting to agree!

Were you one of the ones that were up in arms about the redskins breaking contract negotiation and free agency policies for the last 10 years when we signed the big names 10 minutes into free agency with block buster deals?

I think those are called tampering rules.

I don't seem to recall redskins nation caring much about that, in fact I seem to recall many people gloating about it. It's funny how people arbitrarily pick which rules matter and which ones done, or when it matters that they're being broken and when it doesn't ;)
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Tampering rules are a joke, and every team breaks them.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
How many other players were smoking freely during the "acceptable" period, and then magically weren't tested when the unacceptable period started? You find an answer of zero to that question, and I'll admit the league wasn't effing with us when those suspensions happened. Are Trent and Fred the only two dumbasses in the entire NFL? I doubt it...I'm sure there were plenty of guys who just got "lucky" when it came to testing. And I'm positive a lot of those guys play for the Giants and/or Patriots.
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you do realize they were tested, failed, and given about a month to clean up and continued to fail tests right?

it's not like the lockout ended and bam - drug tests and suspensions. they were tested for over a month waiting for the test to turn up clean and they didn't.

i'm sure plenty of people got caught... they just stopped after they got caught the first time long enough to pass the follow up tests.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Redskins getting screwed for the same things other teams were doing? Glad we're finally starting to agree!
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The other teams that got caught go punished too.

They didn't go after the people that violated the cap floor, and while I have a problem with that I do understand why they did it.
 
tshile said:
The other teams that got caught go punished too.

They didn't go after the people that violated the cap floor, and while I have a problem with that I do understand why they did it.
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Julius Peppers deal with the Bears. Tell me that was not circumventing the cap with the uncapped year. The Bears lost exactly ZERO dollars from their 2012 cap space because of it. There are others, but its been so long since it happened, I've forgotten. They did not punish all the other teams that did it.
 
tshile said:
you do realize they were tested, failed, and given about a month to clean up and continued to fail tests right?
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Now you're the one who isn't answering the question.

it's not like the lockout ended and bam - drug tests and suspensions. they were tested for over a month waiting for the test to turn up clean and they didn't.

i'm sure plenty of people got caught... they just stopped after they got caught the first time long enough to pass the follow up tests.
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They had a 30-day grace period. 11 players failed in that grace period. How many players were "randomly" tested in that 30-day grace period? How many of them were on other NFC East teams that are not the Giants, I wonder? Then, during the season, Trent & Fred were "randomly" tested again, and failed. Trent did not challenge, knowing he could not fight the union AND the NFL. You do the math.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Julius Peppers deal with the Bears. Tell me that was not circumventing the cap with the uncapped year. The Bears lost exactly ZERO dollars from their 2012 cap space because of it. There are others, but its been so long since it happened, I've forgotten. They did not punish all the other teams that did it.
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Ah I did forget about that, thank you for reminding me.

I think most the other teams got caught or their issue was with the floor if I remember correctly, but you're right it's been a while.

At the end of the day I just don't think what the redskins did was really 'right', but what I think doesn't matter. Whether what they did was 'right' or not, I'm still rooting for them to screw the league/goodell over in court, for many reasons.

Oh, and i'm just trying to pass the time before I can blow out of work early on my birth day, so thanks for entertaining me without ripping my throat out :)
 
tshile said:
Ah I did forget about that, thank you for reminding me.

I think most the other teams got caught or their issue was with the floor if I remember correctly, but you're right it's been a while.

At the end of the day I just don't think what the redskins did was really 'right', but what I think doesn't matter. Whether what they did was 'right' or not, I'm still rooting for them to screw the league/goodell over in court, for many reasons.

Oh, and i'm just trying to pass the time before I can blow out of work early on my birth day, so thanks for entertaining me without ripping my throat out :)
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Haha, I know exactly what you're doing. :p This is just one issue I can't let go of...its going to take years off my life, lol.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Now you're the one who isn't answering the question.



They had a 30-day grace period. 11 players failed in that grace period. How many players were "randomly" tested in that 30-day grace period? How many of them were on other NFC East teams that are not the Giants, I wonder? Then, during the season, Trent & Fred were "randomly" tested again, and failed. Trent did not challenge, knowing he could not fight the union AND the NFL. You do the math.
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That isn't exactly how I remember it going down, but it's almost pointless anyways because much of that information is (or is supposed to be) confidential so we wont really know who was tested and what the results were :(
 
tshile said:
Yup. That's how the business works.

Were you one of the ones that were up in arms about the redskins breaking contract negotiation and free agency policies for the last 10 years when we signed the big names 10 minutes into free agency with block buster deals?

I think those are called tampering rules.

I don't seem to recall redskins nation caring much about that, in fact I seem to recall many people gloating about it. It's funny how people arbitrarily pick which rules matter and which ones done, or when it matters that they're being broken and when it doesn't ;)
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This is a really good point tshile. I'm have my days when I think we get more than our fair share of abuse, but your point above and Dan Snyder running up player and coach salaries is why he got slapped. They (the rest of the league) were just waiting for the right opportunity to stick it to us and they got it. I don't like Mara's involvement or his words after it happened and I do think that we should expend any mean we can to get that money back.

The league has hated the redskins since Dan Snyder came in, I'm ok with that being prolonged to get some money back and keep the train we have built on the tracks.

Jrock seems to have risen from the grave. :handicap: lmao
 
Yeah, and the fans have united behind Snyder, so maybe in the end it'll be good for the organization and its fan base.

I really really hope they win their injunction. I jumped up and laughed so hard I had tears in my eyes when the power went out at the super bowl because I knew it would give Goodell an ulcer. Oh man I can only imagine what putting a temporary hold on free agency would do.
 
Yes, Dan Snyder pretty much re-invented salary cap circumvention, and out-spending the competition. For years, agents have been using the Redskins to up the amount their clients receive, with no intention of ever signing with the Skins. Yes, we dropped buku bucks on non-deserving players, while letting our own, very-deserving players go. Yes, Albert Haynesworth.

I just don't see how any of that justifies the punishment we got (or the TIMING of it), is all. Yes, there are consequences for your actions; but its not like Danny wrote the previous CBA, and slipped in the uncapped year provision as a way out of his ****ty contracts...the entire league and the union agreed to that.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Yes, Dan Snyder pretty much re-invented salary cap circumvention, and out-spending the competition. For years, agents have been using the Redskins to up the amount their clients receive, with no intention of ever signing with the Skins. Yes, we dropped buku bucks on non-deserving players, while letting our own, very-deserving players go. Yes, Albert Haynesworth.

I just don't see how any of that justifies the punishment we got (or the TIMING of it), is all. Yes, there are consequences for your actions; but its not like Danny wrote the previous CBA, and slipped in the uncapped year provision as a way out of his ****ty contracts...the entire league and the union agreed to that.
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Its like hitting on your friends girlfriends all the time. Eventually your circle of friends is gonna smack you. The NFL is a good ol boy club and little Danny has never really played nice so he got smacked.

I think a lot the good ol boys club escapes a lot of people these days. These types of organizations still exist and make their own rules up.
 
Dm said what I think about it. It's clearly a good old boys network and if they had a time machine I bet the owners would go back and block his bid for ownership.

I guess I'm less angry because I'm just not shocked it happened. If the league told them not to do it then they were dumb for doing it.

Of course I could wind up looking like an ass if the court rules in our favor :)
 
The Redskins have nothing to lose. The NFL admitted other teams did the same thing under lesser circumstances and not only were they not fined, these teams have actually received shares of the Redskins lost cap for their own use.

The Saints case showed that league actions are often taken without due processor even following their own by laws.

Why not fight it?

Mara wanted to go beyond the cap and take away draft picks.

So, the Mgt Council is already lead by someone that wants to ruin this franchise.

The uncapped year was not uncapped but not because of a change to the rules, but because of a silent handshake.
 
Lanky Livingston said:
Julius Peppers deal with the Bears. Tell me that was not circumventing the cap with the uncapped year. The Bears lost exactly ZERO dollars from their 2012 cap space because of it. There are others, but its been so long since it happened, I've forgotten. They did not punish all the other teams that did it.
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exactly. and did Tampa get penalised for spending far less than the minimum and then using all that money the next year in free agency? if im the Players union I am definately suing over that because its one years pay that didnt get spent. teams spending less werent even slapped on the wrist.
 
Rymanofthenorth said:
exactly. and did Tampa get penalised for spending far less than the minimum and then using all that money the next year in free agency? if im the Players union I am definately suing over that because its one years pay that didnt get spent. teams spending less werent even slapped on the wrist.
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the NFL PA already tried to sue and it was tossed by a judge because he said when the NFL PA signed the CBA they agreed to be ok with all that.
 
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