A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Round 1

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  1. #25601
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    Florida State

    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by DieselPwr44 View Post
    Those FSU shades must have Coke bottle bottom lenses........
    What did I say that was wrong? He's been a starter for 5 years, he throws the ball very well, putting up impressive stats. The kid has never been able to overcome trying too hard, forcing the ball which leads to INT's. 5 straight years as the starter is a franchise QB.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  2. #25602

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    What success? You keep talking about how successful our drafts have been, but we are not a good team, so how can you call them a success?

    Haskins = Not a success. You guys think a possible diamond in the rough. Remains to be seen.
    Da'Ron Payne = We heard all about the Alabama boys...our run defense remains one of the worst in the NFL. avg at best, so far.
    Jonatahn Allen = Absolute success.
    Montez Sweat = We've seen nothing at this point to call him a success.

    Derrius Guice = If you even think about calling him a success I swear I will laugh at you!
    Ryan Anderson = Doubtful he'll even be on the team next year unless they finally switch to 4-3 and make him Weakside OLB

    That is the 1st and 2nd round of the last 3 years. Of the 6, Allen and Payne will be the only ones on this team in 4 years.

    I will add the probably successful players after those rounds:

    Cole Holcomb, if he develops his ability to cover the pass, which I believe he can, kid can be a star.
    Jimmy Moreland should get better, he's young and shows great potential. Can be solid.
    For a 5th round pick Settle is almost as solid as Da'Ron Payne.
    Trey Quinn? I like him, but he has not shown to be a successful pick so far.


    Other than these players, who has been the success you speak of? Fabian Moreau? Geron Christian? Jeremy Sprinkle? Samaje Perine? Troy Apke? Greg Stroman? Montae Nicholson?

    I mean, I hear so many talk about how great the last 3 years of drafts have been, how successful they are? Here we sit at 1-6 with allllllll that talent.
    That was sarcasm. Lol...but nice response.
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    'Slipped to 15'? The Giants were the only team needing a QB who drafted in front of us. They chose Daniel Jones. It's way to early to call that decision a success or mistake, but Jones only average arm and propensity to cough it up is showing itself already. There's no guarantee that if the Redskins had the 6th pick in the draft, that they wouldn't have drafted Haskins regardless.

    What I love about Redskins fans? Jay Gruden is an incompetent idiot. Except when the DC media pushes the narrative that Haskins was forced on Jay by Snyder. Then all of a sudden, it's the FO who are negligent idiots because they forced the wise supreme talent evaluator Gruden to accept their horrible choice of Dwayne Haskins on him See where I'm going with this?

    None of us have any definitive idea what we have in Haskins. As is always true in the NFL (and especially with QBs), only time will tell.

    But anyone uttering the phrase 'move on' when it comes to Haskins at QB after getting thrust into action with little prep for less than a half of football - I'm sorry, but that's just meaningless noise to my ears.
    With all due respect my long-time friend - this meme of "none of us know" has been repeated so many times I bet some actually come to believe it as axiomatic. Arrant nonsense. Plenty of people are paid of lot of money to narrow the uncertainties. There is plenty of tape.

    You may have mis-interpreted my post. The reports are there - you know, the same ones everyone quotes prior to and immediately after a draft when enthusiastic about whjat a great initial job a FO/scouting dpe thas done. There are intelligent tape analyses - by folks better rehearsed in the details than you or I. I'm in the middle on this. If I hear a recurring theme in these analyses I'm inclined to accept them. Unlike some others, however, I do not believe there is an "inevitable" outcome - at the outset. It's clear as all day that two consecurive HCs do not believe Haskins is ready for prime time. One didn't do much about it...the other is apparently doing the right thing. Whatever the magic threshold happens to be is Callahan's decision. But when it arrives we need to put Haskins on the field and see what we have. At that point, there is more data to decide whether the man is on course, needs more work or has discouragbg patterns that aren't corrected (or correctable). Of the latter, then the the decision whether to ride with the bet or draft again is certainly on the table. The immediate evidence is that Arizona went through this same process and made the right decision. It's inherent in the problem space that the Skins will need to do the same. I vote get the guy prep'd to the "enough" level and put him out there; especially now that we have passed through the toughest part of the schedule.

    I knew that, and believe I posted early on, that a guy with one year of starting experience was going to need time. Since the season is pretty much over, any game now is the time to put him on the field so the team can collect some data on the only real test - actual NFL season games - while building his confidence and increasing his exposure to the speed/intracies of the game at the professional level.

    Daniel Jones may not be pro bowl quality. But I know one thing - he's ahead of Haskins in his development. And will be when, hopefully, they meet as starting QBs next season.

    What reason(s) are there for not playing him at this point?
    Last edited by fansince62; 10-20-19 at 08:37 PM.
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  4. #25604

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Well, I think I've gotten the record correct every year over the course of the past 5 years within 1 game. You have been telling us we're a contender, every single off-season.
    I run a Redskins fan website Brian. Unless you guys think 'theburgundyandgoldare****ingdoomed.com' is snappy, I feel some obligation to maintain a hopeful outlook. I actually watch every game - so I'm well aware of where we have been for most of the past 20 years.

    Being so much smarter than everyone else - how come you never figured out that the most annoying guy in the room is the one who feels the need to say 'I told you so!' constantly? Because, really - that's something even someone of average intelligence is able to figure out.
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  5. #25605
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Remains to be seen.

    ***Btw - I do recognize if someone else were going after another member as hard as I am you, it'd probably get my attention. So I'll dial it back. I'm not mad in any way at anyone. But here's my primary point...

    Of the 18,000 reasons to deplore, criticize, and generally hate what this franchise has become, I'm pretty sure Dwayne Haskins is not yet one of them. Let's get off his back until he has a reason for us to hate and blame him too.

    I don't think that's an unreasonable line of thinking.
    I'm not blaming Haskins for being less than the billing he's been given. I blame our front office for wasting a pick on Haskins. It's not his fault. I applaud the kid for trying to do everything he can to be better, or at least that is what has been reported. Even in light of the prima Dona reports, I believe the reports he studies and practices hard.

    But he's not a starting NFL quality QB, you all keep making my point for me when you say he needs to be refined into ti. And in a perfect world a new GM would be given autonomy to move on from this pick.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  6. #25606
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Look, here is the thing. Picking players is only half the battle. You have to have coaches that can coach the players to improve and can use the players to the best of abilities to get the most out of them. The Redskins simply do not do that. Not since Marty have they had a coach that teaches technique. Shanahan put in a successful system to get the most out of RG3, but he seemed to despise it. Then add in the injury and all that happened afterwards, and you can see why. But even that was only 1 year. We can probably find an instance where a coach had one good year getting the most of their players, but there has not been a coach get the most from the team consistently. We can argue all day about this player and that player. But other than guys like Doctson and Cravens who didn't even love football, or guys like Guice who are constantly hurt (I hate using him as an example, but he's 2-2 so far), it really doesn't matter who the Redskins have drafted or signed. They won't play up to their potential, they won't develop their skills, and they will at best look like an average player. Until the Redskins can get coaches that can develop players and use them to their best of their abilities, every draft pick will look like a bust.
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  7. #25607
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    If this team gave Josh Doctson 3 years to show he couldn’t play WR in the NFL, then we need a reasonable sample size for Haskins.

    I don’t know at 1-6 what we are protecting.

    Troy Aikman went 0-11 his first season in the NFL with little talent on the Cowboys.

    That experience of getting hit and learning from mistakes didn’t ruin him for life or have him walk away from the game.

    How bad was Jared Goff under Jeff Fisher as a rookie?

    These guys if they are going to become successful in the NFL have to show they don’t have a glass jaw.
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  8. #25608
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I run a Redskins fan website Brian. Unless you guys think 'theburgundyandgoldare****ingdoomed.com' is snappy, I feel some obligation to maintain a hopeful outlook. I actually watch every game - so I'm well aware of where we have been for most of the past 20 years.

    Being so much smarter than everyone else - how come you never figured out that the most annoying guy in the room is the one who feels the need to say 'I told you so!' constantly? Because, really - that's something even someone of average intelligence is able to figure out.
    I understand the need to keep morale up on this site, but I also know you believed this team to be better than it was until recently.

    It's not so much that I "need" to be right...I really don't care enough. What I get sick of hearing is the same thing I've heard for years. We've rinsed, washed, and repeated the same thing every 5 years for the past 20.

    And many want to get on my ass for being so negative...well, wtf else am I supposed to do about this team? I refuse to wear the rose colored glasses I wore for nearly 20 years of futility.

    I knew I should have just stayed away. If I can see how terrible we are, and everybody else is just catching up to that fact...suddenly I get called stupid for knowing what we've been but those suggesting we're just so close to turning things around are the smart ones in the room?

    I guess I'm just too dumb to know any different. Glad I could be annoying enough to wake you f*****s up! Now maybe you'll see how bad it really is here in DC. And simply say, you're right Brian...we should blow it up, it should have been blown up 3 years ago...but consistency at the HC position!
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  9. #25609

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Kel Varnsen View Post
    Look, here is the thing. Picking players is only half the battle. You have to have coaches that can coach the players to improve and can use the players to the best of abilities to get the most out of them. The Redskins simply do not do that. Not since Marty have they had a coach that teaches technique. Shanahan put in a successful system to get the most out of RG3, but he seemed to despise it. Then add in the injury and all that happened afterwards, and you can see why. But even that was only 1 year. We can probably find an instance where a coach had one good year getting the most of their players, but there has not been a coach get the most from the team consistently. We can argue all day about this player and that player. But other than guys like Doctson and Cravens who didn't even love football, or guys like Guice who are constantly hurt (I hate using him as an example, but he's 2-2 so far), it really doesn't matter who the Redskins have drafted or signed. They won't play up to their potential, they won't develop their skills, and they will at best look like an average player. Until the Redskins can get coaches that can develop players and use them to their best of their abilities, every draft pick will look like a bust.
    Kal...while I'm inclined to agree in the main.....there have been successes. Just look at McLaurin, Kerrigan, Allen, Scherff.

    I further agree that your theme does apply to Haskins. Recall all the preseason and training camp chatter vis Haskins? Pro-level plays followed by mistakes. Never much on the fixes - at least not from Jay Gruden. There is talent there. Callahan seems to be more methodical than his predecessor in developing a player. So lost opportunity is being recovered.

    Sometimes one is thrown into the maw and has to perform - ready or not. In my mind, that time is fast approaching for Haskins.

    If you prefer, let's flip the matter: what does Haskins need to learn in order to make his way onto the field?
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  10. #25610
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    Kal...while I'm inclined to agree in the main.....there have been successes. Just look at McLaurin, Kerrigan, Allen, Scherff.

    I further agree that your theme does apply to Haskins. Recall all the preseason and training camp chatter vis Haskins? Pro-level plays followed by mistakes. Never much on the fixes - at least not from Jay Gruden. There is talent there. Callahan seems to be more methodical than his predecessor in developing a player. So lost opportunity is being recovered.

    Sometimes one is thrown into the maw and has to perform - ready or not. In my mind, that time is fast approaching for Haskins.

    If you prefer, let's flip the matter: what does Haskins need to learn in order to make his way onto the field?
    I don't want to nitpick, but Kerrigan doesn't appear to be getting better. He seems lost at times and if you look at the guys who have played opposite of him, they have been worse. Yet you look at Preston Smith who looks like a star in Green Bay and people wonder how the Redskins could let him go. Because he didn't do that here, because he wasn't coached to do so. Kerrigan has been a good player, but he could be great. He still only has one move, which most of the time seems to be to throw his hands up hoping to get a holding call. He certainly has the motor you want, I just think he could be coached to be a superstar. McLaurin has been fantastic so far, so no arguments on that one. Allen has been great and Scherff has as well, but I fear he will not re-sign. But even then, we can only think of 4 guys in the past decade.

    As far as Haskins, I don't know what he looks like in practice. I don't know what he looks like in the meeting rooms. Everything about Haskins is "I don't know", because I don't. He hasn't been on the field except for one game, which was not good. But it also looked like he had not been prepared to play either. I do know that in the preseason, after he looked pretty bad his first game, he looked better each game after that. He didn't make those same bad plays he made the first game. I'd like to see him get some consistent playing time with preparation to see how he responds. If he plays like he did in the Giants game, how does he respond the next game and then the next game, etc. I know the logical time to play him is after the bye week, but I don't think the team is really gaining anything by having Keenum play. And if I never have to see McCoy take another snap in a Redskins uniform, that will be a good thing.
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  11. #25611
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    I for one hope we spend 2020 and 2021 getting the o-line, te's and wr's shored up for Haskins. He's gonna see the field some point this season, my guess is after the bye week. I'm "assuming" that was Callahan's plan for him moving forward. That gives him 4 games with proper backup training, a bye & then 7 games to start while being evaluated. Unless he completely shits the bed in royal fashion Haskins should be afforded next season as starter.

    Every year, or at worst every other year there's a Tua or Herbert to be had. As much as I would love having the Georgia tackle Thomas there's just too many iffy spots on the team that warrant trade downs and accumulating picks. IMHO this offseason screams trade down to build the offense properly. Thanks to Trent's bipolar ass that'd be at LT and go from there
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  12. #25612

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Win4us View Post
    I for one hope we spend 2020 and 2021 getting the o-line, te's and wr's shored up for Haskins. He's gonna see the field some point this season, my guess is after the bye week. I'm "assuming" that was Callahan's plan for him moving forward. That gives him 4 games with proper backup training, a bye & then 7 games to start while being evaluated. Unless he completely shits the bed in royal fashion Haskins should be afforded next season as starter.

    Every year, or at worst every other year there's a Tua or Herbert to be had. As much as I would love having the Georgia tackle Thomas there's just too many iffy spots on the team that warrant trade downs and accumulating picks. IMHO this offseason screams trade down to build the offense properly. Thanks to Trent's bipolar ass that'd be at LT and go from there
    1.There isn't a Tua every year. There are up years and down years for QB drafts.

    2. The challenge is determining whether Haskins is the real deal. I suppose it's built into the cards that we are going to play this out to the bitter end, but if Haskins tanks next season it's at least three more years of rebuid. IMO, the franchise is dead at that point. Kick it to the curb and spit on it.

    No one is answering my question: why is it Haskins can't play now? What, specifically, is felt to be a hindrance?
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  13. #25613

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Best to wait until the bye week to hand over the reigns to Haskins. That leaves plenty of time to get a read on what we have in him.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    I think where I am with this team is that I know we're a train wreck... but I'm starting to feel like I'm with Kel on this one.

    I don't think the team is bereft of talent. We have some. Granted not as much as some other teams, but there are diamonds in there.

    Increasingly it seems to me to be a lack of coaching to get the best out of them.

    It was mentioned how we do have players here who are moderately successful, McLaurin, Kerrigan, Scherff etc. But commonly those players seem to be driven themselves to be better. When you hear McLaurin talk he seems like a veteran who is dedicated to honing his craft. Kerrigan has spent an inordinate amount of time and attention on his body regime above and beyond what most would do. What the Redskins seems to lack is a coaching ability to lead the players who don't have that kind of drive and ethic themselves to be better.

    It shows in our inconsistency across games too. A repeating pattern this year is that we have halves of football where we do really well, holding our own. But we can't maintain that.
    Yesterday, AP had 49 rush yards by the end of the 1st qtr. We dominated that opening drive. Our Defense held up well.
    But we can't sustain that. Is that players? Or coaching?

    To me it looks like coaching can't adjust to game flow. I know that the Skins wanted to commit to the run, but after a while it's just predictable. Yes, the weather was bad, and both teams were running a lot, but late in the game the 49ers started mixing in passes, and that opened up their run again. We just seemed to keep plodding along with throwing AP into the mud on 1st down. Why not take a shot at McLaurin on 1st down?

    We don't have enough talent to be playoff bound. But I think we have the talent to be better than 1-6. Maybe we are an 8-8 team again in reality. But I do think coaching is holding us back.
    That and QB play. Keenum is just.... ugh.
    A lot of comment about Haskins on this thread, but he can't be worse than Keenum or Colt in the long run can he?
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  15. #25615

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    I don't think there is any benefit to starting Haskins on the road against the Vikings, and then Buffalo.

    Waiting until after the bye will give him another month of the improved coaching he's received since we fired The Loser.

    After the bye, give him the reigns for the rest of the season.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  16. #25616
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    If Keenum gives us the best chance to win and that is confirmed after throwing for 77 yards on Sunday then we indeed are headed to 1-15.

    To put that in perspective, Keenum passed for 70 yards LESS than Dalvin Cook RAN for.

    Every week there are potential obstacles to starting Haskins.

    Short week.

    Nationally televised game.

    Killer defenses.

    Facing franchise quarterbacks.

    The truth is for a bad team having a tough season there really is no ideal time.

    You jump in the pool and start treading water.

    Troy Aikman was 0-11 starting as a rookie on a Dallas team that was much worse talent wise than the Redskins.

    The Redskins actually beat the hell out of Aikman his first couple of years.

    It didn’t break him or prevent him from learning from that experience.
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  17. #25617

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Yeah, and if he's thrown in and he still shows that he's the kind of guy that would have benefited from more backup time, learning the pro game, you and his more ardent critics will have a glorious time repeating every shortcoming he and the team has.

    Wash, rinse, repeat.
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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    You have it wrong.

    Teams that are winners like New England and KC somehow manage to get their rookies and younger players on the field early on.

    Here this team often comes to camp with 18 or 19 of the starting 22 already in place! Which is remarkable given the team’s record in recent campaigns.

    As Brian Mitchell asked last year ‘how can a team coming off 7-9 have so many key slots already locked down?’. It was simply amazing to him and others as well.

    Meanwhile, high picks like Ryan Anderson and Geron Christian are put in mothballs and made inactive for most of their rookie seasons.

    This team is very slow to make changes and move on from veterans.

    Where else would Shawn Lauvao, released from a one win Cleveland team, go and be a starter for three years?

    There was no one else this team could find in 3 years to replace this bum?

    It really stretches the bounds of credulity.

    You can put Norman in this category as well. We started Dunbar and Moreau against SF and didn’t miss Norman one bit.

    Yet he remains on board ready to get beaten like a drum by Kirk Cousins as he no doubt will get his spot back despite his poor performances.

    So, no I am not in favor of just throwing anyone on the field in any circumstance.

    But if you take guys in the top 3 rounds the profile of these players is usually a projection to being NFL starters and/or contributors.

    As such they may need refinement to reach their full potential but their skills and performance should be at a level where they can get on an NFL field and not make a fool of themselves.

    Starting 31 and 32 year old journeymen at qb at 1-6 is reaching the point of stupidity. The season is over for all intents and purposes.

    Besides a real GM would want to see IF the pick of Haskins was the correct one.

    Fans here on this board seem to be largely in the two extreme camps - Haskins will be a star or Haskins will be a bust.

    I don’t have any real idea at this point.

    If he is an NFL qb, that will show through in flashes even if he makes mistakes and has his share of turnovers.

    I remember after the Redskins beat the Cowboys 30-7 and Aikman was knocked around quite a bit, Monte Coleman came up to him after the game and told him to keep grinding because he had the talent to be one of the best in the league.

    The players on D could see that through the mistakes and lack of support.

    But they could tell he was going to make it.

    That’s the confirmation some of us that aren’t decided want to see in 2019.
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  19. #25619

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I don't think there is any benefit to starting Haskins on the road against the Vikings, and then Buffalo.

    Waiting until after the bye will give him another month of the improved coaching he's received since we fired The Loser.

    After the bye, give him the reigns for the rest of the season.
    I'm surprised to hear this coming from you Ax - because you are very consistent in terms of always wanting the team try to win games. It's fine to say 'the coaches think Keenum gives us the best chance to win' but what our eyes tell us is that short of being surrounded by Super Bowl level talent, he is not a good QB. My expectations for him this season were much higher but not only does he have significant physical weaknesses (which I was aware of), he makes poor decisions and shows poor poise under pressure. Those were the only benefits he supposedly had as a starter. By pure common sense, we will not win with him under center and the only logical thing to do is to get our 15th pick out there and start trying to win with him.

    It's just flat out common sense.
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  20. #25620

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    Default Re: Random Redskins Thoughts

    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog View Post
    You have it wrong.

    Teams that are winners like New England and KC somehow manage to get their rookies and younger players on the field early on.

    Here this team often comes to camp with 18 or 19 of the starting 22 already in place! Which is remarkable given the team’s record in recent campaigns.

    As Brian Mitchell asked last year ‘how can a team coming off 7-9 have so many key slots already locked down?’. It was simply amazing to him and others as well.
    Every team in the league has more set positions, than not. Every....single.....one. Whether stated, or not.

    Meanwhile, high picks like Ryan Anderson and Geron Christian are put in mothballs and made inactive for most of their rookie seasons.

    This team is very slow to make changes and move on from veterans.

    Where else would Shawn Lauvao, released from a one win Cleveland team, go and be a starter for three years?

    There was no one else this team could find in 3 years to replace this bum?

    It really stretches the bounds of credulity.
    Thanks Jay Gruden. The HC decides who plays on Sunday. And no one will ever convince me that the FO didn't try to fill his wishes. especially during the first 3 yrs.

    You can put Norman in this category as well. We started Dunbar and Moreau against SF and didn’t miss Norman one bit.

    Yet he remains on board ready to get beaten like a drum by Kirk Cousins as he no doubt will get his spot back despite his poor performances.
    And it was the "Real GM" everyone was bellyaching for that made the move. His $'s make him virtually untradeable. But whatever way costs less, I would certainly hope these are his final days as a Redskin.


    But if you take guys in the top 3 rounds the profile of these players is usually a projection to being NFL starters and/or contributors.
    Using your criteria, sure?
    Hell, they're ALL Projected, or at the very least hoped to be starter/contributors. Unfortunately, most do not.

    According to much of what I've seen, 65% of 1st rounders are a success.
    2nd and 3rd rounds drop to just over 30%
    Every round after is single digits.

    As such they may need refinement to reach their full potential but their skills and performance should be at a level where they can get on an NFL field and not make a fool of themselves.
    Simply an opinion.

    Starting 31 and 32 year old journeymen at qb at 1-6 is reaching the point of stupidity. The season is over for all intents and purposes.
    In trying to protect a big investment, sacrificing 2 old guys while better preparing the kid, is very smart. IMHO.
    Besides a real GM would want to see IF the pick of Haskins was the correct one.

    Fans here on this board seem to be largely in the two extreme camps - Haskins will be a star or Haskins will be a bust.

    I don’t have any real idea at this point.
    And neither do I. But if a guy doesn't walk through the door oozing WOW!, then the smart move is to get him as comfortable as possible before putting out there.
    If he is an NFL qb, that will show through in flashes even if he makes mistakes and has his share of turnovers.
    Who cares about interceptions? Have you seen this line pass protect? I'm trying not to get him killed. I see no downside in giving it until the bye week. Hell, that may even be too soon. Funny how patience is often preached, but rarely practiced.

    I remember after the Redskins beat the Cowboys 30-7 and Aikman was knocked around quite a bit, Monte Coleman came up to him after the game and told him to keep grinding because he had the talent to be one of the best in the league.
    I remember when gasoline was $0.30 a gallon.

    That’s the confirmation some of us that aren’t decided want to see in 2019.
    I want to see it too. I just don't think it's the end of humanity if he doesn't start for a couple more games.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

 

 

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