Random Commanders Thoughts

Boone, the trouble is Gruden keeps stubbing his big toe on some critical aspects of coaching - his clock management from the sidelines is pretty poor and that is not just on the odd occasion; this team and Gruden specifically addressed this himself, was clearly out-coached/schemed in several games this year where opponents seemed to know everything we were going to do while they were able to surprise us with wrinkles we were unprepared for; and in a couple of 'must win' games this past season where the Redskins were at home and needed a win while the opponent did not have any particular motivation outside of general pride - this team not only didn't win, but came out flat and played a game way below the level at which they were capable.

These are things that don't go away - the last one in particular is troubling because it is more about 'want to' rather than teaching/training/working hard, etc.

It's as much a psychological issue as anything else. This team remains brittle in critical circumstances.

Is it ok to dream that Jon Gruden comes out of retirement, and take a job working with his brother in some capacity ? Not necessarily "under" Jay or as an assistant, but maybe some type of consultant.
Maybe he'd welcome a non-HC position, since it's probably less stress than being a HC. And "stress vs money" is supposedly a big reason he's been staying in the booth vs coaching.

'These are things that don't go away' - really? Coaches can't improve? Here's the issue I have with some of the criticism leveled at Gruden - we want to attribute all the negatives to him (and rightly so, he's the Head Coach and he owns those areas where the team has failed). But we don't want to attribute any of the positives to him. It's kind of a bizarre thing to me.

For example, there were games we shouldn't have won this year. But we did. There were times (in both of the last two seasons) where fans expected the team was out of it, was going to give up, and that didn't happen. The team continued to fight and compete up until the last opportunity. There's no doubt this season was a step back. I can't authoritatively say why, nor can anyone. I believe the resurgence of other teams in the division had a little to do with it - just stiffer competition. Kirk struggled early on, and the running back we had hoped would thrive in the starting role flopped. And of course, there was our D. Still, we hung in there and won more than we lost. It's not good enough. But the team overall during the Gruden era has trended up. I don't think that's 'ineptitude'.

I watch the games and I see the poor clock management, the suspect play calling, the lack of commitment to the run game. We have to improve all of those things. Ultimately I believe that the biggest factor that's lead to mostly 20 years of failure has been a lack of patience and consistency. We've had more coaches and QBs than almost any other NFL franchise. If we continue to blow it up and start over every 3-4 years, this franchise will never becoming a consistent winner. I'm fine with criticism of Gruden, I really am. But it needs to be balanced by recognition of the good things he has accomplished. And before folks begin the cry to blow it all up again, I hope they consider what that approach has gotten us over the years, because it's not been pretty.

Fear The Spear said:

I think it all depends on the ballpark, and how deep the walls are.

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That's what he said.

A couple of interesting Garcon comments:

"Garcon says not to worry about who replaces McVay as offensive coordinator, though, agreeing that head coach Jay Gruden, or any of the other in-house options, are more than capable of running the Redskins offense.

“I think [Gruden] can do a lot of things,” Garcon said. “He can definitely handle all the responsibility. Like you said, it is his offense. He is an offensive coordinator. He was an offensive coordinator. He’s the coach so it doesn’t go far away from him, but he definitely can take care any duty and like you said.”

“[Quarterbacks coach Matt] Cavanaugh could be the offensive coordinator,” he said. “We have a lot of great guys on staff that can take over the offense and get us in the right position because the quarterback has been around for the longest, so that’s the easier part where you’re not reteaching it all over to a new quarterback. So it’s definitely one of those things where it’s easy for someone to transition into because those guys have been around for a long time. So that’s definitely an easier transition for those guys to make offensive coordinator.”

Bulldog's Twin said:

I don't know about that one. The Redskins have a lot of cap space and if we are smart we use those resources to lock up younger players like Morgan Moses and Jamison Crowder before they become free agents in the future.

It was nice to have two veteran receivers in Jackson and Garcon in 2016 that complemented one another, but under the cap you really can't pay out $10M plus for EACH of your starting wideouts.

That money has to be more equally spread over the balance of the roster to put a winner on the field.

The Redskins were able to sign Trent Williams, Jordan Reed and Ryan Kerrigan to extensions a year before they were set to be free agents and that's the way to go as we continue to bring in younger, capable players that are 'home grown' through the draft.

The Patriots, Chiefs, Cowboys, Packers, Seahawks are all in Round 2 of the playoffs and while most have one established wide receiver making a franchise salary I don't see any of them that have TWO.

Wide receiver is a position of turnover in the NFL, teams tend to keep their #1 and rotate in and out #2 receivers over the years to complement the #1 and keep the cap numbers at WR within reason.

The Steelers let Mike Wallace go. The Packers let Greg Jennings go a couple of years ago when he was asking for a big contract. Golden Tate was gone from Seattle after the team won the Super Bowl. Dallas currently has Terrence Williams and Cole Beasley working on team friendly contracts behind Dez Bryant.

I don't see any reason to be paralyzed by the thought the Redskins need to go younger and cheaper at WR.

And given what the Patriots do in mid-tier free agency, there is no reason we can't find capable pass catchers that can move the chains and perhaps help us more in the red zone.

Other than Doctson and late-comer Maurice Harris , we still don't have much size at WR. Jackson is 5'9, Grant is 5'10, Crowder is 5'10.

Sean McVay is more likely to hit up the Redskins coaching staff to pull a couple of offensive coaches off Gruden's staff as he is to go after any players.

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Packers have Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb both higher salary and cap number than our 2 recievers. Atlanta has about 17million in jones and another 10.5 million on sani. Dallas only has 1 reciever at 17 million they have witten at 12 million
those are all cap hits the base salaries are around and more than our 2 guys are. Franchise tag on a reciever is 14 some million last year. So if a guy is a number 1 his base salary is going to be around 12-14 million.

Not only is that a good endorsement of the staff by Garcon, but it also may indicate he plans, or at least would like to try, to re-sign with the Skins.

Agreed. Be nice if Capt Kirk had the same tone.

One of the stumbling blocks here to improving the running game is to get TEs and WRs that can and are willing to block.

Garcon is definitely someone that helps out in the run game as well as the passing game. He has the size and determination to make a difference there.

I would submit that behind Jordan Reed and Vernon Davis (FA I expect we will retain), we really need to sign/draft/trade for a TE that is a capable blocker and has the size, say 6'4 and 255 to make a difference at the LOS.

We haven't had that in awhile.

We can work to improve at LG by replacing Lauvao, but getting better set play from the WRs and TEs will help Kelley or whomever the team brings in to run the ball.

Bulldog's Twin said:

I would submit that behind Jordan Reed and Vernon Davis (FA I expect we will retain), we really need to sign/draft/trade for a TE that is a capable blocker and has the size, say 6'4 and 255 to make a difference at the LOS.

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I take it, you've written off Paul, due to injuries ?
Although, he probably doesn't fit your description of size.

I know you were asking Bulldog... but not only has Paul not been reliable due to injury, are we really even certain he can play TE? We're talking about a guy who's started just 18 games in 5 seasons and has a grand total of 55 career receptions. At 6' 1" and 225 lbs or so, he's not physically imposing. At best he's a 28 year old project. I don't see how anyone thinks he's a significant piece of the Redskins future.

Boone said:

'These are things that don't go away' - really? Coaches can't improve? Here's the issue I have with some of the criticism leveled at Gruden - we want to attribute all the negatives to him (and rightly so, he's the Head Coach and he owns those areas where the team has failed). But we don't want to attribute any of the positives to him. It's kind of a bizarre thing to me.

For example, there were games we shouldn't have won this year. But we did. There were times (in both of the last two seasons) where fans expected the team was out of it, was going to give up, and that didn't happen. The team continued to fight and compete up until the last opportunity. There's no doubt this season was a step back. I can't authoritatively say why, nor can anyone. I believe the resurgence of other teams in the division had a little to do with it - just stiffer competition. Kirk struggled early on, and the running back we had hoped would thrive in the starting role flopped. And of course, there was our D. Still, we hung in there and won more than we lost. It's not good enough. But the team overall during the Gruden era has trended up. I don't think that's 'ineptitude'.

I watch the games and I see the poor clock management, the suspect play calling, the lack of commitment to the run game. We have to improve all of those things. Ultimately I believe that the biggest factor that's lead to mostly 20 years of failure has been a lack of patience and consistency. We've had more coaches and QBs than almost any other NFL franchise. If we continue to blow it up and start over every 3-4 years, this franchise will never becoming a consistent winner. I'm fine with criticism of Gruden, I really am. But it needs to be balanced by recognition of the good things he has accomplished. And before folks begin the cry to blow it all up again, I hope they consider what that approach has gotten us over the years, because it's not been pretty.

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It's like you're in my mind!!!! Lol

I would never claim Gruden is a HoF HC. But I also wouldn't say he's the worst either. I try and avoid negativity about our situation, and honestly I think we're still looking pretty good, albeit we have some critical decisions to make right now and get right.

What I see in Gru is a relatively young HC.

The AVERAGE HC age in the NFL is 57 yrs old. Gru is 49.

No spring chicken but he's 8 yrs under average.

Plus while he has HC experience in other leagues he only has 3 years in the NFL as a HC.

I still think he'll learn, just takes time and game experience. And that's an issue in the NFL because of the lack of games.

In the NBA in 3 years a HC will have 246 games of experience.
Same in the NHL
In MLB... 486.

NFL... 48

And the NFL is way more complex.

That's how I view it anyway. It's like exercising any muscle... about the reps.

I also really try and live outside the Redskin bubble. As my wife is a Packers fan, my bro is a Buccs fan and my best mate a Cowboys fan I tend to watch at least all 4 of those games every week pretty much.

And I see all the same coaching mistakes made by coaches on all the other teams. Gru isn't alone in his issues, just he's the one we watch week in week out. Not saying some aren't better than others, but you see questionable play calling and time management ever week.




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Sounds like Musgrave will be off the table - reportedly following Mike McCoy to the Broncos...

Maybe we'll have coordinators in place by this spring.

I promised earlier to say more about the changes and all this doom and gloom I keep hearing. Well, Boone pretty much said what I wanted to say.

The key to this offseason is re-signing Cousins. They have to re-sign him or they might as well consider a full rebuild. All the holes and weaknesses that need to be filled will become moot if they lose Cousins. They would have to go through a few more years of grooming a QB that can play as well as Cousins. I'd love to see he and the team agree to a deal sooner than later. And a deal that is friendly to both parties. But I know this will drag out.

As far as the two coordinators that have to be replaced, one was a necessary change and the other was a good thing. They had to get rid of Barry and as long as they don't hire Hasslett or Rob Ryan, it will be an improvement. I wanted Phillips, but he's not interested in a rebuild at his age. He wants to go where there is a lot of talent. Good for him. The Redskins need to find a coordinator that can get the most out of who they have. As for McVay, when was the last time a Redskins coordinator was plucked from the team? It's been a while since most coaches aren't around long enough to hire second coordinators and the team sucks so bad no one wants them. I see this as a good sign. It's a sign of competence the Redskins haven't had since the early 90s. Honestly though, I could careless if he succeeds in LA. What is important is that the Redskins succeed. I have plenty of confidence in the offense with Cousins at QB.

As for Gruden, yeah I have some issues with him. He coaches scared and many times seems like he's more worried about not losing than he is about winning. I want to see him grow a pair of balls and coach with some aggressiveness. I'd also like to see him improve his time management and game understanding of when to use timeouts. That is something he hopefully can learn. But you cannot argue about the results he has helped bring to the offense. It is his offense and whoever is brought in to be the coordinator, they will run his offense. The offense did a lot more to win the games than the defense this year and I expect the same for next year. If they can get competent defensive play next year, they will be contenders again.

There is nothing to be concerned about.

How much less could you care?

Chris said:

How much less could you care?

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Apparently, a lot!


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One can remain hopeful as a fan, but the 'realist' side of me says that Gruden doesn't have the looks or feel of a coach that is going to lead a team to a Super Bowl championship.

Gruden is going into Year 4, it's not like 2016 was his first season here. The same characteristics we saw this season in re clock management, at times odd personnel moves in and out of the lineup, and in the offseason an almost stubborn resistance to see poor performers for what they are and move on.

After not having a productive back in 2015, I didn't see how Gruden could simply come out in March and say that the running back job belonged to Matt Jones and it was his to lose. Based upon what he did and didn't do in 2015, you bring him back and give him a chance to redeem himself, yes, but you don't give him that kind of ringing endorsement.

The NFL as Chris Baker indicated is a 'results-oriented' business. Where performances are below average to poor, you have to leave open the chance there is going to be real, actual competition at those spots the next season.

To do otherwise is a de-motivator for other players on the team who look to see what the HC and front office do. What it says to them is if you are a fairly high draft choice you are going to continue to get the best chances to play even if you aren't performing at an NFL level.

To be honest, after what we saw of Jones in 2015, I don't see a Joe Gibbs or Bill Parcells not addressing that RB spot in free agency or the draft to bring in some competition and not promise anyone anything heading into the offseason work.

For the simple reason that Jones didn't deserve it based on his play.

I use Jones as an example because the running back spot is visible and performances there are scrutinized even by casual fans.

But you could look at the LG spot and DT as others where the team simply didn't feel the need to make ANY upgrades.

You would figure again that there would be some legit competition for players at those spots who didn't show themselves to be a strength in 2015.

Gruden factors in there large as the HC. McCloughan may be the one scouting the players with his front office and identifying candidates, etc. but if the HC says he needs a legit RB or legit LG to make his team go, the GM would be hard-pressed to just come out and say 'no'.

If Chris Cooley and John Riggins could both question Matt Jones' ability to be a primary back in the NFL, it seems mystifying how Gruden could go that far on the mat for him. Ditto for McCloughan.

And the results definitely show it was a mistake as Jones not only was replaced by an undrafted rookie in mid-season, he was put on the inactive list for the balance of the season.

When guys get put on the inactive list it becomes concerning. Because that is a sign the coaches at that time believe they don't need that player to be successful OR that his attitude is corrosive enough that they want him in a suit and tie and off the sideline on Sundays.

No, most of what I have seen of Gruden during the season as a game-day General and in the offseason as a coach having a critical eye to evaluate where we need to improve and convincing the GM to make moves at those spots, tells me that Jay is unlikely to be a coach we remember here as being one that ultimately takes us to the Super Bowl.

I see Jay reverting back to his role as crafty passing game offensive coordinator on another team in the future. That's what he does well.

The other things vital to a HC being successful, not so much.

La Canfora claiming Skins will promote Cavanaugh to OC and will lose TEs coach to Chargers. For what it's worth. Tandler reporting it as well, but nothing official.

Well, Wes Phillips HAS to go where his daddy goes, right?

That's what these guys do. In the NFL the father to son transition is about as insular as the position of the European aristocracy in the 18th Century.