A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Round 1

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  1. #12861

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    Why would any team trade a core performer who is in his prime? Makes zero sense.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Simple. Seastrunk and Redd.

    Our running game would have been am unmitigated disaster had we traded away Morris and trusted the run game to a couple unproven rookies. If I recall both of those guys looked so pretty in the preseason last year that some on this board thought we were super-deep at RB, when in fact we had Morris and nothing. And you dont trade Morris when you have Morris and nothing.
    There was definitely a little risk in trading Morris. I wouldn't say anything too big, but certainly something. And that's no knock on Alfred by any means. We all know that the value of RBs has dropped.

    And there was some risk that another team would have drafted Matt Jones before we did--but that too was probably small. Most thought we drafted him too early. But if Scot definitely had Jones picked out as his guy, the risk was small.

    In an absolute worst case scenario, we could have gone with a RBBC approach like the Patriots.

    It just seemed very clear that neither RG3 nor Alfred fit the system last year. And it seemed like a slam dunk to trade them separately or to package them together for something bigger.

    Now after the RG3 episode, I believe Scot will be very hesitant to pull that trigger on Alfred in terms of an extension. I'd put his odds of returning next year at less than 5%.

    I'm sure I'm in the minority now, but I believe that will be well-accepted by many as the season progresses.
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    except HE HIMSELF said this on AUG 2

    “We anticipate Alfred being here for awhile, knock on wood hopefully,” said Gruden. “Alfred’s not the big name guy sometimes, I guess because you have DeSean and then Robert gets a lot of publicity, but Alfred just goes about his business every day.

    “He’s been excellent with blitz pick-ups, catching the ball out of the backfield so much better, and doesn’t say a peep. He just comes to work every day. You love to have guys like that. At the running back position, that’s pretty rare for a running back to not complain about not getting the ball. You know, sometimes he probably should.

    “I just love what Alfred is all about, on and off the field and very happy to have him.”

    In his first three seasons in the league, Morris has rushed for 3,962 yards and 28 touchdowns,

    As Gruden said, Scot McCloughan believes there’s much more to Morris than just his production on the field.

    "I think we’re very lucky to have a guy like Alfred Morris," said McCloughan. "Not just the player on the field but also the person that he is in the building. He’s one of those guys that everyday he’s got a smile on his face.

    "He goes out there and works his tail off and no matter what, produces. We’re talking, you know. We’d love for him to be a Redskin for the rest of his life, career … It takes some time but, yeah, the whole organization respects Alfred very much."
    Redskins: Gruden, McCloughan weigh in on Alfred Morris
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  5. #12865
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Why would any team trade a core performer who is in his prime? Makes zero sense.


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    Doesn't fit the scheme ( I know some disagree), too expensive going forward, has some trade value and cheap to replace him through the draft.

    There would have been some risk, but I don't believe a lot if Scot really had Matt Jones circled on his board.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    Doesn't fit the scheme ( I know some disagree), too expensive going forward, has some trade value and cheap to replace him through the draft.

    There would have been some risk, but I don't believe a lot if Scot really had Matt Jones circled on his board.
    how expensive do you think he is? We just paid Kerrigan and made Trent Williams the highest paid LT in the league. You think you have some insight or idea that Scot doesn't have? Serious question. Is this just you speculating or do you know something about what he knows?

    Matt Jones was on the board because 1) Helu is gone. 2) he was the BPA. 3) he is a damn good back and can give Morris some breathing room. 4) all teams have at least two dominant running backs if not 3.
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    I love the McLovin strategy of going with the younger guys and believing in them. Maximizing trade value and cutting vets where appropriate.

    I'm pretty confident that a combination of Matt Jones, Thompson and Williams would be effective enough.

    Now if.....if that is true and we can upgrade the team going forward, I'd love to see this trade made right now:

    Forget the emotion, forget who may own whatever jersey, I'm talking about team success going forward.

    Trade a 26 year old Alfred Morris for a 27 year old Cam Chancellor. Pull the trigger.

    That would impress me.

    Let the young guys run the ball and bring in the best safety we've had since #21. Now that's a significant step forward.
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    OK, well I wish you would have answered the question instead of going in to another crazy off the wall scenario. It is hard to have a serious talk with you about things when you jump from topic to topic and make these crazy ideas/trades/scenarios that aren't even in the realm of reality right now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    There was definitely a little risk in trading Morris. I wouldn't say anything too big, but certainly something. And that's no knock on Alfred by any means. We all know that the value of RBs has dropped.
    The only reason it's not a risk to trade Morris is because the team is so lousy it doesn't matter if we have a running game or not. For this team, Morris is probably the difference between 2 wins and 4. So in that respect, there's little risk.

    There is a risk, however, in that guys who can be counted on to start and produce consistently year-in and year-out are few and far between. Even in the run game. The risk exists in the ability to replace on of the VERY few players who actually produces on this team. We have no QB. We have no offensive line. We have no secondary. We need a pass rusher opposite Kerrigan. We have no TE.

    Given all that, taking the risk that we may also need to add RB to this rather extensive list is, in my opinion, patently insane.

    And there was some risk that another team would have drafted Matt Jones before we did--but that too was probably small. Most thought we drafted him too early. But if Scot definitely had Jones picked out as his guy, the risk was small.
    Jones, at the moment, is nothing. A year from now maybe we can re-visit this conversation, but right now, Redd and Seastrunk.

    In an absolute worst case scenario, we could have gone with a RBBC approach like the Patriots.
    No. Not like the Patriots. The Patriots have Tom Brady. I could play RB for that team and they'd still win. Don't compare our situation to that of the Patriots. Just ... don't.

    It just seemed very clear that neither RG3 nor Alfred fit the system last year. And it seemed like a slam dunk to trade them separately or to package them together for something bigger.

    Now after the RG3 episode, I believe Scot will be very hesitant to pull that trigger on Alfred in terms of an extension. I'd put his odds of returning next year at less than 5%.

    I'm sure I'm in the minority now, but I believe that will be well-accepted by many as the season progresses.
    I think if Gruden proves incapable of tailoring a system to fit either the 2012 Rookie of the Year OR the 26 year-old RB who has been to two pro-bowls in three years, the guy leaving town won't be Morris. I suspect that will become more widely accepted if the season progresses in such a fashion.
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  10. #12870
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    Doesn't fit the scheme ( I know some disagree), too expensive going forward, has some trade value and cheap to replace him through the draft.

    There would have been some risk, but I don't believe a lot if Scot really had Matt Jones circled on his board.


    Weren't you just drubbing Scot about his 'Risk Management' in the other thread? Now it makes sense to take a top 5 player on your team and let him go in favor of a rookie RB with injury history, and a 2nd year RB with injury history. Jones looks good, but to expect him as a rookie to carry the ball 300 times in a season is VERY risky.

    Morris set the single season rushing record as a rookie, he's within 2 solid years of setting the franchise record, and he's been a very bright spot in what has otherwise been a circus here. He shows up to work, he keeps his mouth shut, and he's successful. That's leadership. I haven't seen anything to lead us to believe he doesn't fit a power run scheme... in fact I'd argue that a 1 cut back with very good vision is what WOULD fit in a power run system. He's a downhill runner, he can be plugged into A LOT of different offenses and be very effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    OK, well I wish you would have answered the question instead of going in to another crazy off the wall scenario. It is hard to have a serious talk with you about things when you jump from topic to topic and make these crazy ideas/trades/scenarios that aren't even in the realm of reality right now.
    Alf is cheap this year. Next year he'll want (and deserves) to get paid. I hope he gets paid a ton. But we don't have to be the team that pays him.

    The trade scenario makes a lot of sense on many fronts to both teams.

    1. Seattle is absolutely desperate for another RB. They are about to sign 60 year old Fred Jackson this afternoon. Alf is a big upgrade.

    2. Seattle may watch Cam sit out the entire season. Would they prefer that, or Alf running for them?

    3. We trust the young guys to run the ball, and immediately take one step closer to upgrading our defense into something like Scot's old Ds at San Fran and Seattle.

    4. The two FOs have already exhibited that they are open to working together. We swapped draft picks with them.

    There's some leap of faith that our young RBs can carry the load. But the reward is much bigger. That's smart risk management. Big upside, lower downside.
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    You're assuming all of that and trying to spin it in to fact.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentThreat View Post
    Weren't you just drubbing Scot about his 'Risk Management' in the other thread? Now it makes sense to take a top 5 player on your team and let him go in favor of a rookie RB with injury history, and a 2nd year RB with injury history. Jones looks good, but to expect him as a rookie to carry the ball 300 times in a season is VERY risky.

    Morris set the single season rushing record as a rookie, he's within 2 solid years of setting the franchise record, and he's been a very bright spot in what has otherwise been a circus here. He shows up to work, he keeps his mouth shut, and he's successful. That's leadership. I haven't seen anything to lead us to believe he doesn't fit a power run scheme... in fact I'd argue that a 1 cut back with very good vision is what WOULD fit in a power run system. He's a downhill runner, he can be plugged into A LOT of different offenses and be very effective.
    Alf seems like an incredible person. He's also a great player.

    It wouldn't be taking Matt Jones in exchange for Alf.

    It would be taking Cam Chancellor in exchange for Alf, and putting some trust in our younger RBs to play ball.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    You're assuming all of that and trying to spin it in to fact.
    All of those points are facts.

    Fred Jackson is visiting Seattle right now. Alf is better.

    Cam may sit out the entire year.

    Cam is a huge upgrade to us.

    The teams already swapped draft picks in this last draft.

    It's much less crazy than 90% of trade ideas we've seen presented. I understand if people disagree, but it has some merit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post

    It would be taking Cam Chancellor in exchange for Alf, and putting some trust in our younger RBs to play ball.

    Ok, putting trust in our younger RBs... Again, an injury history with both RBs, who combined have similar regular season starting experience as we do. I would like to have Cam, don't get me wrong, but is this even an option? Is this something that's been rumored that I haven't seen? Lynch just signed an extension for 3 years, $31mil. Does that mean they wouldn't be re-signing Morris in the offseason? Why would they give up an all pro FS in exchange for a 1 year rental of a backup RB? Does that make sense?
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    So? He could be looking for a 3rd down back. You're assuming and making it fact.

    Cam has never said he wanted to play here no matter what we wish. You're assuming and making it fact.

    I'm done though. I have to stop at a certain point because I end up frustrated with this shit and it becomes a distraction for the site.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentThreat View Post
    Ok, putting trust in our younger RBs... Again, an injury history with both RBs, who combined have similar regular season starting experience as we do. I would like to have Cam, don't get me wrong, but is this even an option? Is this something that's been rumored that I haven't seen? Lynch just signed an extension for 3 years, $31mil. Does that mean they wouldn't be re-signing Morris in the offseason? Why would they give up an all pro FS in exchange for a 1 year rental of a backup RB? Does that make sense?
    I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Just an idea that I have.

    They get Morris cheap this year. Cam may not even play for them. He's still holding out and says he'll sit out all year if necessary.

    They could trade an older Marshawn next year, and keep Morris if they like. That's totally up to them. I imagine they would like to have his replacement on the team.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere. Just an idea that I have.

    They get Morris cheap this year. Cam may not even play for them. He's still holding out and says he'll sit out all year if necessary.

    They could trade an older Marshawn next year, and keep Morris if they like. That's totally up to them. I imagine they would like to have his replacement on the team.
    So this is your opinion... an idea you had
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    The only reason it's not a risk to trade Morris is because the team is so lousy it doesn't matter if we have a running game or not. For this team, Morris is probably the difference between 2 wins and 4. So in that respect, there's little risk.

    There is a risk, however, in that guys who can be counted on to start and produce consistently year-in and year-out are few and far between. Even in the run game. The risk exists in the ability to replace on of the VERY few players who actually produces on this team. We have no QB. We have no offensive line. We have no secondary. We need a pass rusher opposite Kerrigan. We have no TE.

    Given all that, taking the risk that we may also need to add RB to this rather extensive list is, in my opinion, patently insane.



    Jones, at the moment, is nothing. A year from now maybe we can re-visit this conversation, but right now, Redd and Seastrunk.



    No. Not like the Patriots. The Patriots have Tom Brady. I could play RB for that team and they'd still win. Don't compare our situation to that of the Patriots. Just ... don't.



    I think if Gruden proves incapable of tailoring a system to fit either the 2012 Rookie of the Year OR the 26 year-old RB who has been to two pro-bowls in three years, the guy leaving town won't be Morris. I suspect that will become more widely accepted if the season progresses in such a fashion.
    I'm just going to leave this pretty brilliant post here and hope that McD doesn't skip over it this time. This pretty much addresses everything in your... ummm... "idea".

    (trying to use my nice words this afternoon!)

    I'll also reinforce why Silent Threat has said: to wit, you're comfortable going with Thompson, who if it weren't from Jordan Reed, would be mocked relentlessly for his injury proclivity and Matt Jones who looks good in Preseason, but who has also been injured a lot? I feel like maybe we had this conversation ten years ago regarding Portis and Betts. Pretty sure I've already deja'd this view.
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    Kam Chancellor is currently the 2nd highest paid strong safety in the league, and he's holding out for more money.

    The argument against paying top dollar for a RB is pretty much the same as paying top dollar for a safety. You build from the lines out. Your elite (and therefore highest paid) players on defense are pass rushers, not safeties. ESPECIALLY not strong safeties.

    And, of course, McLoughin has said that he believes in building the lines first, so again, Paying Kam unprecedented money would not be in keeping with this team's philosophy.

    So if our choice is between keeping Morris at his rookie salary and seeing what we can negotiate next year, or paying Kam Chancellor more money than any safety, free or strong, has ever made in the history of the league and trying to build a defense around that ...

    I'll take the first option, thanks.
    Last edited by Henry; 09-01-15 at 03:50 PM.
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