A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 10 - Texans. Just win ugly, baby.

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  1. #12541

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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    Have you seen the contract? Do you know what the clauses are?

    Could he have signed it, and then the very next day retired and collect on all 5 years?

    No? You haven't seen it?

    You're making a lot of assumptions about his contract.
    Brother McD. We all know you're in the tank for Gruden, come hell or high water. But you try too hard to give him preemptive cover, should he fail here.
    So far, he's having to repeat 1st grade. You know I'm on record as saying I think he will succeed here.

    I base my assertion that he has a guaranteed contract, on reports by everyone in the free world, that he has such.
    Very doubtful it's guaranteed if he quits. But if he's fired, as I understand it, he's guaranteed his money.
    Smart move by him and his people, knowing Snyder's reputation. If he left Dan any wiggle room, through whatever clauses you might be thinking of, then that too, is strictly Gruden's fault.

    If he's allowing Snyder to dictate who starts, he will fail. Spineless people usually do. And he will have no one to blame but himself.
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  3. #12543

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    Quote Originally Posted by micks113 View Post
    I give him a pass as it is his first HC job and in almost every workplace, you have to do what the boss wants whether you like it or not. Or you can quit. then you're a quitter. I'll let you decide, is it better to be a loser or a quitter?
    Why a pass ? What has he done to earn it ? He gets a pass on an assumption he's being driven from above ? If the team showed some improvement last season, which it didn't, he would have earned a pass. Don't even try to go with the one more win BS. The team was disorganized, undisciplined on the field, and lacked any real leadership on and off the field, just as it had been under Shanny. Gruden did not thing one to show the team was heading in the right direction by seasons end. He ain't working at the local auto parts store where he has to bend to the owners will, he's a head coach in the NFL, which has quite a bit of power associated with it. First time HC isn't enough..... Pinning himself to Haz as DC was a huge indicator he wasn't up to being a head coach. Any average football minded person could look at one or two games on film and know Haz had to go, but he was retained for the support from a familiar face. No biggie if a new coach does that and the person being retained doesn't suck. Haz sucked.... Did Snyder and Bruce force him to do that too ?

    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    Have you seen the contract? Do you know what the clauses are?

    Could he have signed it, and then the very next day retired and collect on all 5 years?

    No? You haven't seen it?

    You're making a lot of assumptions about his contract.
    You make a lot of assumptions about meddeling / orders from above.
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  4. #12544
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    Quote Originally Posted by Miles Monroe View Post
    Why a pass ? What has he done to earn it ? He gets a pass on an assumption he's being driven from above ? If the team showed some improvement last season, which it didn't, he would have earned a pass. Don't even try to go with the one more win BS. The team was disorganized, undisciplined on the field, and lacked any real leadership on and off the field, just as it had been under Shanny. Gruden did not thing one to show the team was heading in the right direction by seasons end. He ain't working at the local auto parts store where he has to bend to the owners will, he's a head coach in the NFL, which has quite a bit of power associated with it. First time HC isn't enough..... Pinning himself to Haz as DC was a huge indicator he wasn't up to being a head coach. Any average football minded person could look at one or two games on film and know Haz had to go, but he was retained for the support from a familiar face. No biggie if a new coach does that and the person being retained doesn't suck. Haz sucked.... Did Snyder and Bruce force him to do that too.
    Miles Gruden gets a pass because this is a lousy team to work for. Who wants to come coach a last place team other than a first time head coach? Huh?
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  5. #12545
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    If he's got a guaranteed contract, he can't be forced. Period.

    GM's do not name starters.
    Neither do POFO's
    And in the case of a guaranteed contract, neither does the owner.

    If Gruden got fired for not taking those kinds of orders from Daniel ****ing Snyder, he'd be hailed a friggin hero. There would be zero hits to his professionalism.

    He is in the drivers seat here. He's got Snyder by the nuts on a downhill pull.

    Failure to use ones authority, when necessary, is a dereliction of duty.
    sorry to butt into this commentary Ax, but if you will indulge me......Jay Gruden is a company man. If you don't know what that means, it means he tows the company line. He will bench Robert in due time, this year will likely be a repeat of last year, merry go round qb's, saw this coming when last season ended. He must go with Robert, its a no lose situation for him, the Redskins brass wants it that way for now. Its his adjustments that are the key to the season and his career. (btw, McClue and Allen are both company men as well, Allen is the quintessential man, and McClue is trying to save his career so he will be a yes man also.) So you can see there is no "in your face independent thinkers" on staff.
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  6. #12546
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    We draft a WR who obviously sucks.

    Skins fans: "It takes three years for a WR to truly develop."

    We sign a HC to step into total turmoil. The worst ST in the history of the NFL. Assistant coaches leftover from Shanahan who absolutely suck. The 31st or 32nd best QB in the league. A joke of a defense, and Bruce Allen and Dan.

    After only one year? "Oh he sucks. He's awful."

    That is truly bizarro world. Total craziness.

    Where is the consistency in that?
    Last edited by McD5; 08-26-15 at 10:09 PM.
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    Thank you Jay Gruden. Multiple Superbowl appearances on deck.

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    If you put half the effort in to defending Griffin and morris that you do in to gruden it would be pretty even keel.
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    I agree with McD5 that the criticism of Gruden is borderline ridiculous at times. He came into a very tough situation. It's only his 2nd year. He needs to show across the board improvement this year but we cannot just keep ditching and recycling coaches guys. We will never win if that continues. Gruden deserves more than a year before he's pronounced a failure. I really can't fathom how anyone things the firing of yet another head coach going into his 2nd season would be a positive.


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    Griffin came in to what? He took us to the playoffs and we won the division!

    Like I said, if he defended everyone as much and as hard as he does gruden it could be even. But he is one of the main culprits going to the extreme in his criticism of Griffin. A 6th or 7th for him, trading him away and picking up Winston, etc. I just don't see how he can ask for fairness with gruden when he gives none for our running back or qb.
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  10. #12550
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I agree with McD5 that the criticism of Gruden is borderline ridiculous at times. He came into a very tough situation. It's only his 2nd year. He needs to show across the board improvement this year but we cannot just keep ditching and recycling coaches guys. We will never win if that continues. Gruden deserves more than a year before he's pronounced a failure. I really can't fathom how anyone things the firing of yet another head coach going into his 2nd season would be a positive.


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    I know because of my signature that people think I love Gruden.

    I don't give two shits about Jay Gruden. I care about the Redskins.

    However, I do love and appreciate Jay Gruden because prior to Scot, there wasn't a person on staff worth two shits to bounce ideas off of.

    Imagine being a football guy and looking across the table. It's you, Dan and Bruce Allen. No disrespect to Bruce, I know he loves the Skins. But come on.

    If you are Scot or Callahan.....and the Denver job opens up? Don't think that people aren't watching what's going on and taking notes.
    Last edited by McD5; 08-26-15 at 11:10 PM.
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    Thank you Jay Gruden. Multiple Superbowl appearances on deck.

  11. #12551

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    Quote Originally Posted by micks113 View Post
    Miles Gruden gets a pass because this is a lousy team to work for. Who wants to come coach a last place team other than a first time head coach? Huh?
    Lovie Smith post Chicago is just one example.... Last I checked, Tampa was about as low as you could go.... I'm sure if I wasted a little time, I can give more then a few examples over the years, but I'm not buying that argument. I respect your opinion, but you're just hitting me with theories, with no real factual foundation to rest upon. Gruden knew exactly what condition the team was in when he signed on. Now, nobody in their right mind expected him to turn it around in a season, but I think many expected to see some progress by seasons end. Some of the names have changed, but this team seems to be just a lack luster as it has for the past 3 seasons. I would love to see the guy succeed..... Trust me, I'm sick of the revolving coaching door.

    Time will tell I suppose.....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    I agree with McD5 that the criticism of Gruden is borderline ridiculous at times. He came into a very tough situation. It's only his 2nd year. He needs to show across the board improvement this year but we cannot just keep ditching and recycling coaches guys. We will never win if that continues. Gruden deserves more than a year before he's pronounced a failure. I really can't fathom how anyone things the firing of yet another head coach going into his 2nd season would be a positive.


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    if I have a bad wheel on my car.....I don't hold on to it longer cause I got rid of the previous 3 bad wheels. It's a bad wheel. period.

    Just as some are free to argue Griffin was a bad wheel from the git go (i.e., can't fix it), others are free to argue that you can't fix a bad coach.
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  13. #12553

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    Nonsense. So the starting point in the convo is 'he's a failed head coach'? Well gosh Al. Now that that's clear we'd better ditch the guy. That's some compelling logic there


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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    Nonsense. So the starting point in the convo is 'he's a failed head coach'? Well gosh Al. Now that that's clear we'd better ditch the guy. That's some compelling logic there


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    no....I clearly stated that I and others are free to claim he is a failed a coach. if others reason their way to ditch him land on the notion that Griffin was flawed from the beginning and unfixable....then I'm steppin through that door and buying into the notion that Gruden is rot got/flawed and doomed to fail as well.

    I am interested, since you raised the subject, on just what a valid proof would be when it comes to determining the criteria for concluding - in advance - whether a coach will succeed or fail. you and others are basically making a conditional argument: the probability of Gruden succeeding increases the more time he is "allowed" to coach. it's just not clear to why the logic in one case of "he was doomed to fail" is acceptable, but not in another. seems rather...well....random to me!

    btw...the data suggests that more first time coaches fail than succeed. so, I'm already on the high side of being right from a purely statistical pov.

    and...I get to define what fail means! afterall......I did train at the feet of the great Ax!
    Last edited by fansince62; 08-26-15 at 11:29 PM.
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    Because 'doomed to fail' is an absolutely unprovable position. It's easy to say because neither can it be disproved. On the other hand there is reams of evidence that one cannot judge a rookie head coach's future based on one year. They aren't comparable arguments.


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    And you are taking an extremely narrow view of the question to begin with - since we could apply your same logic to the question 'what guarantee do we have that firing yet another coach after a few years will contribute to success?' - I think that's an equally interesting question given we have 20 years where irrefutably the answer is, it won't.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Boone View Post
    And you are taking an extremely narrow view of the question to begin with - since we could apply your same logic to the question 'what guarantee do we have that firing yet another coach after a few years will contribute to success?' - I think that's an equally interesting question given we have 20 years where irrefutably the answer is, it won't.


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    but that's an entirely different question/relationship.

    I know one thing.....just like Griffin.....if I think Gruden is a bad coach, I don't keep him around hoping he improves. I cut my losses and fix the real problem: my inability to select good coaches.
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  18. #12558
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    but that's an entirely different question/relationship.

    I know one thing.....just like Griffin.....if I think Gruden is a bad coach, I don't keep him around hoping he improves. I cut my losses and fix the real problem: my inability to select good coaches.
    Do you apply that same logic to the QB position? One guy is going on his second year. The other is going on his fourth--due to injury, let's call it his third.
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    Quote Originally Posted by micks113 View Post
    sorry to butt into this commentary Ax, but if you will indulge me......Jay Gruden is a company man. If you don't know what that means, it means he tows the company line. He will bench Robert in due time, this year will likely be a repeat of last year, merry go round qb's, saw this coming when last season ended. He must go with Robert, its a no lose situation for him, the Redskins brass wants it that way for now. Its his adjustments that are the key to the season and his career. (btw, McClue and Allen are both company men as well, Allen is the quintessential man, and McClue is trying to save his career so he will be a yes man also.) So you can see there is no "in your face independent thinkers" on staff.
    Jump right in, my friend. We're all just talking. And yes, we all know what you mean by, "company man".

    The thing is, even given your opinion of a "company man", it doesn't shift responsibility, or authority. He signed his contract, knowing the owner's reputation.

    Gruden has a guaranteed contract. If he submits to anybody else's desire when it comes to who starts, and who doesn't, then it's completely on him.

    BTW, having a room full of company men isn't automatically a bad thing. Ideally, everyone in the building, from the front office, to the players, to the equipment people, should be doing everything they can to help the company succeed. And if a head coach, especially one holding all the aces, with a guaranteed contract, truly believes the team has a better chance starting player X, over player Y, then he is obligated to do so. Because that is his job. If he relinquishes that authority, he does so, voluntarily. And he absorbs all the blame for it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Jump right in, my friend. We're all just talking. And yes, we all know what you mean by, "company man".

    The thing is, even given your opinion of a "company man", it doesn't shift responsibility, or authority. He signed his contract, knowing the owner's reputation.

    Gruden has a guaranteed contract. If he submits to anybody else's desire when it comes to who starts, and who doesn't, then it's completely on him.

    BTW, having a room full of company men isn't automatically a bad thing. Ideally, everyone in the building, from the front office, to the players, to the equipment people, should be doing everything they can to help the company succeed. And if a head coach, especially one holding all the aces, with a guaranteed contract, truly believes the team has a better chance starting player X, over player Y, then he is obligated to do so. Because that is his job. If he relinquishes that authority, he does so, voluntarily. And he absorbs all the blame for it.
    just a thought: what does it say about an individual who folks believe will not act on what he thinks is the "right" thing to do? can that person be trusted...ever?
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