A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
Game 12 - Philly. No biggie. Just a season in the balance ...

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  1. #12481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    Take him out after the third offensive series.

    His counterpart, Stafford, only played two offensive series'. Griffin played four. It's the second pre-season game. Leaving Bob out there was not necessary and (obviously) dangerous given the circumstances.


    Griffin is not Matt Stafford. Stafford is a top half of the charts QB in this league. Griffin is not. Griffin needs the work. Everyone wants to point at top tier QBs talking about "would you do it with them" but he's not as good as them. They know pocket presence, they know how to avoid the rush, they know how to read defenses.
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    Stafford is only that because of one man and one man only. Stafford was a QB with constant shoulder problems and a huge paycheck coming in to the league until Johnson showed up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentThreat View Post
    Yeah but those guys 'dinged up' have a lot better track record then Griffin. They also have proven they don't necessarily need the reps at a core level. Desean Jackson doesn't need to go out and play against a bunch of 2's to get better at the deep ball. Trent Williams doesn't need to go out and get live fire reps to get better at Pass Pro. Ryan Kerrigan doesn't need reps to work on bull rush. Griffin needs reps in pocket presence.
    not if there is no point to it - i.e., a totally broken pass pro capability.
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  4. #12484

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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Stafford is an established, arguably elite QB. Bob is ... not.

    What would be interesting is to see how many series the other 30 starting QB's got over the weekend though. And to maybe get a sense of what other teams with projected starters short on experience got.

    Also, I just put a breakdown of Bob's nine pass plays in the Development Tracker thread. Would love to get some feedback on that from you and others, particularly if anyone has the time/inclination to review the videos ... to me they paint a pretty clear picture of two things. One, pretty crappy pass pro on several of them, and two, a QB who had no idea what to do in response.
    3 sec isn't much time for anyone. of course, not speaking to the bedroom capabilities of anyone on this board.
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  5. #12485

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    Al, if there's any way you can go back and look at the nine plays, watch Bob and see objectively what he does/doesn't do once he finishes his drop, please do it. Yes, the pass pro was bad Thursday night. But no, Bob was not without options or the chance to do what all NFL QB's must be able to do--make the hot read and/or buy an extra second or two to either make a play, throw it away, or get the hell down and live to fight another day.

    Please don't take my word for it. See for yourself.
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  7. #12487
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    I've been saying this exact point for two years now.

    It's always met with "our O-line sucks" chants.

    Manning and Brady would have had plenty of time behind our O-line last year. Ditto for Seattle.

    If you go back and watch the SB from last year, one thing stands out big time. Tom Brady gets that ball out quickly. He doesn't need a great O-line.
    Last edited by McD5; 08-25-15 at 11:52 AM.
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    Thank you Jay Gruden. Multiple Superbowl appearances on deck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentThreat View Post
    Ok so he had 9 drop backs. Say you call 2 screens, a roll right, and a TE seam. You've now taken 4 of those 9 plays, and taken away those reps from his experience. That's 40% less then an already very limited amount of snaps where he's responsible for pre-snap reads and pocket conditioning.

    I do find myself wishing he could have gotten into SOME sort of a rhythm, and maybe you're right, roll outs and screens could have started that process, but like I said, no matter what he does, it's going to be scrutinized and evaluated, and opinions are going to be formed.
    well....you know the ole saying about opinions!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    Al, if there's any way you can go back and look at the nine plays, watch Bob and see objectively what he does/doesn't do once he finishes his drop, please do it. Yes, the pass pro was bad Thursday night. But no, Bob was not without options or the chance to do what all NFL QB's must be able to do--make the hot read and/or buy an extra second or two to either make a play, throw it away, or get the hell down and live to fight another day.

    Please don't take my word for it. See for yourself.
    OM...I've never disputed that griffin is part if the problem. I did watch that game and there was no doubt in my mind - having watched this in Redskin land long before Griffin ever arrived - that the blocking was atrocious. It's assuming a non-event could have succeeded (i.e., well, if Griffin had just done this or that the fact that the pocket collapsed in half a little lamb's heartbeat could have been negated.) NO ONE CAN PROVE THAT. it's pure speculation unaccompanied by any real support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I've been saying this exact point for two years now.

    It's always met with "our O-line sucks" chants.

    Manning and Brady would have had plenty of time behind our O-line last year. Ditto for Seattle.

    If you go back and watch the SB from last year, one thing stands out big time. Tom Brady gets that ball out quickly. He doesn't need a great O-line.
    that's nonsense. Brady and likely Manning would have been killed behind a Redskin line. Did you watch any of the games in 2013 or 2014? You know....Brady and Manning do get sacked. incontrovertible proof that they to are susceptible when under pressure. now magnify that by the order of magnitude higher probability that the incidence rate of pressure was higher for all Redskin QBs over the last several years...and perhaps one arrives at a different conclusion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I've been saying this exact point for two years now.

    It's always met with "our O-line sucks" chants.

    Manning and Brady would have had plenty of time behind our O-line last year. Ditto for Seattle.

    If you go back and watch the SB from last year, one thing stands out big time. Tom Brady gets that ball out quickly. He doesn't need a great O-line.
    that's nonsense. Brady and likely Manning would have been killed behind a Redskin line. Did you watch any of the games in 2013 or 2014? You know....Brady and Manning do get sacked. incontrovertible proof that they to are susceptible when under pressure. now magnify that by the order of magnitude higher probability that the incidence rate of pressure was higher for all Redskin QBs over the last several years...and perhaps one arrives at a different conclusion.
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    its the line
    its griffin
    its gruden
    its snyder
    its now even scot

    there is always some "reason" for people to be upset and go to extremes. But, the truth is, we haven't even played one meaningful game and people are already at each other's throats. maybe its time to look at ourselves as fans and slow down just a little.
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  13. #12493
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    It is Scott's fault.

    Scott Brunell.
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  14. #12494

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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    If you go back and watch the SB from last year, one thing stands out big time. Tom Brady gets that ball out quickly. He doesn't need a great O-line.
    Of course, if you go back to both SB's against the vaGiants, it was quick pressure up the middle, or around the edge, that Tom pocket couldn't handle.

    Or, did we conveniently forget that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    that's nonsense. Brady and likely Manning would have been killed behind a Redskin line. Did you watch any of the games in 2013 or 2014? You know....Brady and Manning do get sacked. incontrovertible proof that they to are susceptible when under pressure. now magnify that by the order of magnitude higher probability that the incidence rate of pressure was higher for all Redskin QBs over the last several years...and perhaps one arrives at a different conclusion.
    That's incorrect. From the article, if you read it:

    It’s no coincidence that pocket quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady consistently rank among the fastest releases in the league as they’re rightly touted for their quick decision making and ability to work within the flow of the offense, and their pocket stats back this up.

    • Peyton Manning had an amazing 29 touchdowns on passes thrown in two seconds or less.


    2 seconds or less.


    Not 3, not 5, not 7. You and I could block for Peyton Manning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Om View Post
    CT, I'm genuinely curious ... how would you have had Jay "protect him" in those series against the Lions? Suiting up Trent wasn't an option once the game started ... and we don't know what the actual play calls, hot reads, etc., were that Bob may or may not have executed. Seems to me if we needed to get Bob some reps handling the basic passing game, Jay's options were either to let Bob and the OL try to get their collective shit together, or pull Bob altogether since he couldn't seem to help himself out there.

    Am I missing another option that would have allowed him to get Bob pocket reps, and also "protect him?"
    What Mike said. It's truly amazing to me how much more dynamic and creative the play calling is when Cousins and McCoy come in and I don't buy it's because RG is arrogant or dumb or slow on the uptake. Gruden sets them up to succeed by calling plays that move the pocket and avoid the pressure. When play action from runs is NOT working as it wasn't in this game you adjust. Either yank Griffin and keep him from getting killed or start calling plays for him like you do for Cousins and McCoy that give them a fighting chance against a pass rush that has its ears pinned back.
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    I would be foolish to try to turn RGIII into a pocket passer. It would be foolish. The way he is as a runner, we have to take advantage of that. He strikes fear into defensive coordinators when he runs outside. I'm going to let him be himself. -Jay Gruden Jan. 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by SilentThreat View Post
    Did we sign him?
    Not that I'm aware of....
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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    That's incorrect. From the article, if you read it:

    It’s no coincidence that pocket quarterbacks like Peyton Manning and Tom Brady consistently rank among the fastest releases in the league as they’re rightly touted for their quick decision making and ability to work within the flow of the offense, and their pocket stats back this up.

    • Peyton Manning had an amazing 29 touchdowns on passes thrown in two seconds or less.


    2 seconds or less.


    Not 3, not 5, not 7. You and I could block for Peyton Manning.
    Cool! we'll forget about Brady's leg injury that sidelined him for a season and Manning's neck surgery. Those were both non-contact incidents that happened chasing the wife around the pool!

    btw...Manning? first seven yrs in the NFL? no lower than 8 sacks a season and a high of 13. but, yea, sure, even you or I could keep him from being sacked.

    won't even bother getting into the analysis that covers outliers.
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    They might have quick releases but the book on both Brady and Manning is if you make them feel pressure their play breaks down, especially Brady. Furthermore as much as I think Brady is overrated they are both unfair QB's to be using as the litmus test for what is a reasonable amount of time to have pass protection and still consistently make plays. Manning especially is a freak in that regard. Why not compare RB stats to Peterson while you're at it and wonder why the rest of the league can't cut it? I don't absolve Griffin of responsibility here but I think like Shuler and Ramsey and several other quality prospects the Redskins have completely ruined their psyche by throwing them to the wolves and not grooming/protecting them. I think if we had a coach that a freakin clue how to coach the guy from day one, Griffin would be a Superstar by now.
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    I would be foolish to try to turn RGIII into a pocket passer. It would be foolish. The way he is as a runner, we have to take advantage of that. He strikes fear into defensive coordinators when he runs outside. I'm going to let him be himself. -Jay Gruden Jan. 2014

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    Quote Originally Posted by McD5 View Post
    I've been saying this exact point for two years now.

    It's always met with "our O-line sucks" chants.

    Manning and Brady would have had plenty of time behind our O-line last year. Ditto for Seattle.

    If you go back and watch the SB from last year, one thing stands out big time. Tom Brady gets that ball out quickly. He doesn't need a great O-line.
    Please, dear God stop. Please.

    I suppose the fact that as soon as Scot arrived with the 5th overall pick in his first draft, he chose an OLineman means all was well?

    Sorry Kevin Bacon, I didn't buy it at the end of Animal House, and I ain't buying it now.
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