 }})
-
Welcome to BGO! We know you will have questions as you become familiar with the software. Please take a moment to read our New BGO User Guide which will give you a great start. If you have questions, post them in the Feedback and Tech Support Forum, or feel free to message any available Staff Member.
Random Commanders Thoughts
- Thread starter Burgundy Burner
- Start date
If you can back that up, tr1, please do. Otherwise you're just posturing. If you can ID the actual plays that were called for each QB, including whether or not there were options for the QB's both at the line and after the snap, and what each QB did with those options, I would be very grateful for the insight.
Edit: same for you, Mike. You guys both are very comfortable stating as fact that the playcalling is clearly different for Rob vs the other two. I know what we see transpire certainly LOOKS different, but it seems to me you're both making assumptions that can't be supported without knowing what the calls have actually been. Can you both at least admit that the initial call on a given play and what ends up transpiring after the ball is snapped aren't always going to be identical?
Edit: same for you, Mike. You guys both are very comfortable stating as fact that the playcalling is clearly different for Rob vs the other two. I know what we see transpire certainly LOOKS different, but it seems to me you're both making assumptions that can't be supported without knowing what the calls have actually been. Can you both at least admit that the initial call on a given play and what ends up transpiring after the ball is snapped aren't always going to be identical?
Last edited:
Ax
Guest
The pass Pierre dropped against Cleveland was off of play action.
And one of Robert's better pass plays against them was a rollout to the left.
We see the others do it more, cause they're in for more plays.
And one of Robert's better pass plays against them was a rollout to the left.
We see the others do it more, cause they're in for more plays.
Ax
Guest
The only plays they didn't call for Robert were long running plays. They called one first down gaining run by Morris. The other runs called were all the short ones.
Dumb callers.
Dumb callers.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
You asked me for an opinion and I gave it to you. Am I on the sidelines or listening to the plays coming in on the helmet? No, but I have an opinion from what I see on the field and I stated it.
I have admitted that...my last post before this where I said I know he doesn't make all the right calls and that I would be stupid if I did.
I am actually just having a conversation here like you, man. I am as frustrated as you are but I am trying to figure out why Gruden did what he did.
Me too, brother.
I didn't so much as for your opinion as I did ask why you seem so sure that Gruden called different plays for Rob vs the other guys, that's all. Because if he did, his possible reasons for it would be a bigger story than anything that's happened this offseason this side of McLovin getting hired.
To me the two big questions that come out of last night are
1) why did we struggle so much physically on pass pro last night and was it aberration or a really bad sign
2) to what extent, if any, did Rob contribute to the awful showing in his four possessions
I'll tell you this, Om. I watched the first quarter or so. When I turned it off I texted one of my friends "Let me know when Bob snaps in half."
Literally seven minutes later I get the text "Bob is down. Bob is down."
It was pretty obvious Griffin wasn't going to last much longer behind that line the way he was handling the pressure. I honestly have NO idea what Gruden was doing. And I'm no so sure he did either.
MikeSr619
The Cheerleader
I can see that. I don't know anything concrete and conspiracy theories are for hippies!!
Truth is; I don't know. I want to blame Griffin, Callahan, the OL, Gruden....hell, I would even blame Portis for his horrible commentating if I thought it would help us win. But I have zero solid answers; only thoughts and opinions. Those along with $1 will get you a cup of coffee nowadays.
QB's have options on plays. You know that right?
I'm glad you don't think Gruden is intentionally trying to get Rob killed. Really. Is it then your position that his incompetence ends the minute Rob leaves the field and the offense, two weeks in a row now, immediately starts to resemble an NFL offense?
Goaldeje
The Legend
I have no problem with Gruden running (potentially, hypothetically) different plays for different QBs. Part of preparing for the season is figuring out what you have in each of the QBs on your roster, so in some regard it kind of makes sense to run different plays for them.
What I do have an issue with is Gruden leaving Griffin in so long, without changing the nature of the scheme/plays/whatever that up to that point, clearly wasn't working, while knowing that your QB who has had a history of injuries is getting beat up awfully badly. What possible rationale would anyone have for that? Is the small, minute chance that Robert would string a few positive plays together worth the very real possibility of an injury? I don't see how you make that calculus, personally.
Definition of insanity, right?
I have had reservations about Gruden's leadership, and now I have severe reservations about his judgment.
What I do have an issue with is Gruden leaving Griffin in so long, without changing the nature of the scheme/plays/whatever that up to that point, clearly wasn't working, while knowing that your QB who has had a history of injuries is getting beat up awfully badly. What possible rationale would anyone have for that? Is the small, minute chance that Robert would string a few positive plays together worth the very real possibility of an injury? I don't see how you make that calculus, personally.
Definition of insanity, right?
I have had reservations about Gruden's leadership, and now I have severe reservations about his judgment.
Goaldeje
The Legend
Ummm... if you could kindly point me in the direction where I could get a cup of coffee for $1, I'd appreciate it.
None of us know what he was doing. Which is kinda my point.
I do have to wonder what the narrative would have been this morning had he pulled Rob after three series. I'm guessing at least some of the same punditry excoriating Gruden today for failing to pull Rob earlier would have been excoriating him for not giving Rob a chance to play his way out of a bad start, give the offense something positive to end/grow on, etc.
I really don't care what the buzz is this morning, though. Mostly I hope that
- Trent Williams doesn't get hurt any time soon,
- our special teams, already down their captain (Hayward) and a major contributor (Paul), don't slide back into historic suckage this season, and
- that from among the three QB's on the roster, one will emerge as a competent starter capable of managing the offense enough to let the players around him grow, let the team be competitive from week to week during the McLovin Rebuild, including allowing him to realistically assess whether or not Jay Gruden will be the head coach beyond this year.
Again Om. I could see that Bob was not going to last long in that game. I've watched a lot of preseason games over the years. 99% of the time I yawn and say "none of this crap really matters" because, let's face it, it doesn't. In that respect I never know what a coach is thinking. Some QBs that look crappy in the pre-season actually aren't and vice versa. That's not what I meant.
Last night was the first time I've watched a pre-season game and actually thought "the QB's gonna get killed if this keeps up." That sort of thing just doesn't register during the pre-season. If I, some schmuck who is only marginally paying attention to a half-assed version of a game, can see this inevitability, what the hell is the coach doing? Seriously? What the **** is he doing? At least when Shanahan did it the playoffs were on the line. It was inexcusable but at least there was a rational reason for doing something so dumb. What is Gruden's excuse? He's got some secret plan we don't know that involved getting the QB crushed beyond all recognition in a pre-season game?
If Griffin is that bad, start someone else. If he's not that bad, run plays that he can run. If that's not it and it's just that the line sucks, ****ing get him out of there before he gets killed. Is there an option I'm missing?
Again, I have no idea what Gruden was thinking.
Here's some cannon fodder:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ts-on-robert-griffin-iii/?tid=pm_sports_pop_b
What I hope to see is someone break down each of those plays with real-time video, so we can get a sense whether or not Rob could have moved in the pocket a bit to avoid any of the hits that came from the guys spinning our LT like a top.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ts-on-robert-griffin-iii/?tid=pm_sports_pop_b
What I hope to see is someone break down each of those plays with real-time video, so we can get a sense whether or not Rob could have moved in the pocket a bit to avoid any of the hits that came from the guys spinning our LT like a top.
micks113
NFL Pickem Champion 2016
- Joined
- Jan 22, 2010
- Messages
- 1,504
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 0
No.
McCoy's play came AFTER Griffin's, therein lies the adjustment. Gruden couldn't afford to keep McCoy in the pocket. He took the gamble with our #1QB, which everyone wanted btw, but once you lose one, it would be insane to lose another. The play calls were a matter of adjustment from the normal progression of a game. which we would expect a coach to make.
Coaches don't make adjustments until there is an event that calls for an adjustment to be made. Griffin's 4 series were a game plan, the other QB's series were the adjustment.
Last edited:
Goaldeje
The Legend
Based on... what? Gruden? Griffin? Neither? Both? Frankly, I'm seeing a total loss on both fronts, Head Coach and QB, and that depresses the hell out of me. At this point, I wouldn't trust Gruden to mow my lawn without hitting an underground water main; I think Griffin is just too far gone. We had a nice toy, and we broke him. I will be pretty surprised if either are here next year.
McLovin can build a winner, but he has to start over, imo, at those two positions.
Bulldog
The Legend
Why would Gruden have Griffin run the read option and deep passes off play action when those are the things he does well?
The whole point in preseason is for Griffin to show the coaches and GM as well as his teammates that he has GROWN and can now operate in the pocket with pressure, making throws on time in the short and intermediate zones.
Is anyone here trying to make the argument that an NFL offense in today's game can win consistently without an offense that can maintain possession of the ball?
With the rules changes, possession is largely today a product of both a productive running game and an effective pass offense based on timing routes and what are for most qbs high percentage throws.
For Griffin, these 'high' percentage throws seem to be an adventure.
Yes, the OL last night against the Detroit front seven was disappointing. But Griffin had time to get rid of the ball for completions on at least a few occasions where he ended up taking a big hit.
The number of passes he has attempted overall in the first 2 games of the preseason are a joke for a guy supposedly getting ready to start the opener against Miami.
This is beginning to remind me of last year, where we saw a similar lack of reps in the preseason and what we got was a very rusty starting quarterback during the first quarter of the season.
One thing I am confident about. Exercising the $16M option on Griffin for 2016 given his injury history and again getting hurt last night, was not the 'no brainer' that Bruce Allen alluded that it was earlier in the offseason.
To me there is 100% chance whether he is effective or not, Griffin won't play 16 games in 2015. If he ends up with a serious injury the team has screwed itself for 2016.
Who are you going to get to play QB and fill out the roster under the cap with $16M going to a player that could very well end up as a bust?
He should have had to earn the starting job and the option.
The fact both were handed to him just doesn't set well.
These are not the moves of a top-tier organization.
The whole point in preseason is for Griffin to show the coaches and GM as well as his teammates that he has GROWN and can now operate in the pocket with pressure, making throws on time in the short and intermediate zones.
Is anyone here trying to make the argument that an NFL offense in today's game can win consistently without an offense that can maintain possession of the ball?
With the rules changes, possession is largely today a product of both a productive running game and an effective pass offense based on timing routes and what are for most qbs high percentage throws.
For Griffin, these 'high' percentage throws seem to be an adventure.
Yes, the OL last night against the Detroit front seven was disappointing. But Griffin had time to get rid of the ball for completions on at least a few occasions where he ended up taking a big hit.
The number of passes he has attempted overall in the first 2 games of the preseason are a joke for a guy supposedly getting ready to start the opener against Miami.
This is beginning to remind me of last year, where we saw a similar lack of reps in the preseason and what we got was a very rusty starting quarterback during the first quarter of the season.
One thing I am confident about. Exercising the $16M option on Griffin for 2016 given his injury history and again getting hurt last night, was not the 'no brainer' that Bruce Allen alluded that it was earlier in the offseason.
To me there is 100% chance whether he is effective or not, Griffin won't play 16 games in 2015. If he ends up with a serious injury the team has screwed itself for 2016.
Who are you going to get to play QB and fill out the roster under the cap with $16M going to a player that could very well end up as a bust?
He should have had to earn the starting job and the option.
The fact both were handed to him just doesn't set well.
These are not the moves of a top-tier organization.
Ax
Guest
"Spilled milk, isle 10"
Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Total: 3, Members: 0, Guests: 3)
Who Read This Thread (Total Members: 21)
You haven't joined any rooms.