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Random Commanders Thoughts

RGIII never had the time in the off-season to correct/improve his technique, timing, reads, etc. He never really had the chance to progress to the next level. all parties played a role in the events leading up to his injury...and all parties played a role in the events leading to his starting without proper build-up.

all hind-sight, of course.
 
Just science and statistics. For every 1 Adrian Peterson, there are 10 Culpeppers that never return back to form.
First, I will definitely take issue with your analysis of "statistics" regarding ACL surgery rehabilitation. Secondly, comparing Peterson to Culpepper is not comparing similar things. At all. I guess I'm just confused how you are claiming to know the details of these injuries and surgical repairs enough to compare players, and players who aren't even playing the same offensive position...
 
It may be picking nits, but may be important to note that Griffin didn't have an ACL tear, per se. He had an MCL tear and Andrews decided while he was in there to re-do the ACL that was repaired when he was in College. He didn't think the job would sustain Griffin through an NFL career and have to be re-done at some point, anyway.

May be essentially the same, but could also be important to differentiate.

Nick
 
acl tears are literally hit and miss, for every peterson there is a culpepper or others who dont come back from it. Rg3 should have been held out until we were sure he was good, you never ask a player if hes ready, because players will lie, lol

Not according to my surgeon. It has now become commonplace for people to be back to 100% with some flexibility issues in the same year and back to full physical activity in 6 months. What made Peterson's recovery remarkable wasn't his rate of healing, it was his ability to overcome muscle atrophy. 3 things are responsible for RG3's down year.

1. The obvious lack of reps and time to build skill in his craft.
2. Muscle atrophy and building back tissue that had literally been eaten away by his body. There's no burst, acceleration and the strength level is only a faction of the other leg. This can't possibly be stressed enough yet it is rarely mentioned if at all. Folks who haven't had a limb repaired surgically just can't even conceptualize this.
3 The Brace. It is meant to slow him down as it limits moves that put stress on the joint including sudden changes of direction and bursts of speed, let alone how it affected his plant foot and mechanics.
 
It may be picking nits, but may be important to note that Griffin didn't have an ACL tear, per se. He had an MCL tear and Andrews decided while he was in there to re-do the ACL that was repaired when he was in College. He didn't think the job would sustain Griffin through an NFL career and have to be re-done at some point, anyway.

May be essentially the same, but could also be important to differentiate.

Nick

That's not my understanding at all. Yes he DID tear his ACL along with both sides of his MCL, it was the OTHER leg that was the old injury that he decided to clean up because the previous procedure was lower quality and was probably going to lead to problems in the future. So he had surgery on BOTH legs, another important factor that seems to be forgotten in many of these stories.
 
First, I will definitely take issue with your analysis of "statistics" regarding ACL surgery rehabilitation. Secondly, comparing Peterson to Culpepper is not comparing similar things. At all. I guess I'm just confused how you are claiming to know the details of these injuries and surgical repairs enough to compare players, and players who aren't even playing the same offensive position...

You'll "take issue" with the statistics of ACL rehab? What statistics are you referring to?

https://druggist4u.com/article.php?id=678150&category=KNEE

THURSDAY, July 11 (HealthDay News) -- Athletes who have anterior cruciate ligament (ACL) reconstruction surgery are six times more likely to suffer another ACL injury within two years than someone who has never had such an injury, a new study finds.

I remember a blog that Boone wrote two years ago, that said the only way we can screw up the RG3 situation was to play him recklessly, and allow him to get seriously injured. He was spot on, and unfortunately, maybe prophetic.

This ACL issue (something 99% of our fans haven't even realized yet--Larry Michael certainly isn't being asked to focus on it) is exactly what gives Shanahan the dubious award for the biggest coaching blunder in franchise history.

It's also why trading Kirk Cousins wasn't even an option in the offseason.
 
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That's not my understanding at all. Yes he DID tear his ACL along with both sides of his MCL, it was the OTHER leg that was the old injury that he decided to clean up because the previous procedure was lower quality and was probably going to lead to problems in the future. So he had surgery on BOTH legs, another important factor that seems to be forgotten in many of these stories.

The repairs were done to his right knee. They took a graft from his left knee to work on the right.

From What Washington Redskins QB Robert Griffin III faces during recovery from knee surgery - NFL News | FOX Sports on MSN

Because Robert’s patellar tendon in his right knee was used to perform his initial ACL reconstruction the patellar tendon in his uninjured left knee had to be used to create a new ACL.

Nick
 
I think where we can all find common ground is that:

1. Shanahan made several critical mistakes. First in letting the pressure to bring Griffin back in 2013 - but lets also acknowledge that 99% of that 'pressure' came from Redskins fans and Griffin himself. And of course, the decision to keep Griffin in the game in the playoff game against Seattle when he clearly needed to come out. Again, Griffin holds some responsibility for that, but Shanahan has to own it ultimately.

2. Only time will tell whether Griffin can become something approximate to the dazzling player physically we saw in Season 1. None of us knows the answer to that.

3. Griffin must play smarter and less recklessly, and Gruden must set that expectation and play call accordingly. We can't eliminate the threat of Griffin using his feet, as that puts him at as much danger as turning him loose. But Griffin needs to use that threat a lot more judiciously.

4. Injury history or not, Griffin is the best QB we've had under center in 20 years. I am taking the mindset that I'm going to enjoy having him on my team while I can. I hope it's for the next 15 years, but there are no guarantees in life.
 
CT, I thought you were splitting hairs last year when you kept telling us the injury would heal in 6 months after surgery, and I think you're splitting hairs now. Part of a rehabilitation process is all factors affected by the injury. Sure, as you say the ligaments may have been healed, but the whole was not...and it was obvious. I do credit you for making the distinction between the knee injury and the affected surrounding areas...ie, muscle atrophy, but it appears you continue to place the 2 in different categories, when the reality is it is all part of the whole.

Robert was not 100% to start the season...that was quite obvious and the brace was only a small factor. I have run with a brace and can tell you, while cumbersome, it does not affect you enough to be "the" excuse many keep running back to for support of Robert's super human abilities (Not suggesting you do that CT).


Like Boone says, his success relies heavily on his ability to refrain from playing with reckless abandon. That has been my fear since it was first suggested he would be our next QB, that remains my fear today.
 
acl tears are literally hit and miss, for every peterson there is a culpepper or others who dont come back from it. Rg3 should have been held out until we were sure he was good, you never ask a player if hes ready, because players will lie, lol
Eh, if it were the 80's or 90's I might agree with you about the "hit or miss" comment regarding ACL recons. Today it's pretty common for elite athletes to come back after 1 and 2 ACL recons. A big factor is proper rehab and athlete management. It's pretty evident now RG3 came back a bit too early and was mismanaged.
 
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I found this sports artist on twitter who does amazing work. He appears to be a Skins fan too, based on the numerous Skins paintings. He's really incredible. Especially his Sean Taylor pieces.

https://mobile.twitter.com/PierickSmith
 
One thing that pissed me off last year was even when Bob did play it safe & slide, seemed the D still took shots on him that weren't called. Same thing once he got rid of the pitch too.

To stay healthy it's mostly on him then the rest on this O-line, probably 60-40 IMO.
 
CT, I thought you were splitting hairs last year when you kept telling us the injury would heal in 6 months after surgery, and I think you're splitting hairs now. Part of a rehabilitation process is all factors affected by the injury. Sure, as you say the ligaments may have been healed, but the whole was not...and it was obvious. I do credit you for making the distinction between the knee injury and the affected surrounding areas...ie, muscle atrophy, but it appears you continue to place the 2 in different categories, when the reality is it is all part of the whole.

Robert was not 100% to start the season...that was quite obvious and the brace was only a small factor. I have run with a brace and can tell you, while cumbersome, it does not affect you enough to be "the" excuse many keep running back to for support of Robert's super human abilities (Not suggesting you do that CT).


Like Boone says, his success relies heavily on his ability to refrain from playing with reckless abandon. That has been my fear since it was first suggested he would be our next QB, that remains my fear today.


The reason I split them is because they are 100% distinctive from each other. One is an injury, the other is a rehabilitation of muscle and a regeneration of a strength and endurance base. If you can sprint and cut at full force and speed without any pain or hindrance then you are in fact healed and that happens by 6 months in MOST cases according to surgeons attached to world renowned Sports medicine practices I have talked to and had operate on me. But the mere fact that you (figuratively) got so out of shape that your muscle atrophied complicates the return process. That does NOT equate with the sentiment that ACL tears are career enders or the like or that it takes years to heal or get flexibility and range of motion back. Sorry but conditioning is not the same as physical health and that's what I consistently have taken issue with and corrected.

Furthermore you can never address the atrophied muscle and live a daily normal life and probably not ever even notice. The distinction is returning to an elite level of athletics. That takes the extra time to build up that strength and conditioning base. E I've also worn one of those braces and had a completely different experience than you evidently. It was like wearing a weight or spring on my leg and had an enormous effect on my ability to really do anything. Running is one thing but cutting and accelerating moving laterally...all hugely impacted by that stupid brace. I would have been stunned had it NOT had a huge negative effect on him. I also think it's only one part of a whole mix of issues affecting his ability to come back so soon and do it effectively.

And McD like I said all I know is what actual surgeons who have over 90% success rates with this procedure told me and it was that things have progressed so much in the last decade that the 6 times more is just NOT true anymore. In fact MOST have full recoveries and we aren't left with ugly scars and torn up knees, I have scars from bikes wrecks that dwarf my ACL scar. It's just progressed a ton and is no longer anywhere close to what it used to be.
 
One thing that pissed me off last year was even when Bob did play it safe & slide, seemed the D still took shots on him that weren't called. Same thing once he got rid of the pitch too.

If I remember correctly, did he not make a statement, that was basically taunting or daring defenders into hitting him after the play ?
 
I can't recall that but if he did his dumbass deserves those extra hits. It'd be different if he was Cam's size but dude is closer to Webster as far as that goes.
 
My football teams qb actually doesnt even have an acl anymore and played in college after injuring it google Darryl Leason if you dont believe me, the issue is that acl tears are rarely a lone injury, and the worse injuries are the cartillage injuries that often come with it.

the reason I said these injuries are hit and miss are because lots of guys dont rehab well and there are complications as well. ive seen a lot of guys who simply dont come back from knee injuries
 
Griffin did say in a post game presser that he was basically bating defenders into a possible penalty when timing his tip-toeing the sidelines last year. I couldn't believe he said that, and I'm sure that got back to some of his next opponents that that was something he was trying to achieve. Seems a bit like a basketball(drive to the hoop, throw it up and hope to get a contact foul) play to me. Which tells me that he wasn't ready to try and run for an extra 15 yards so he was compensating for his lack of burst and moves by throwing in a John Stockton type of leverage play. Hopefully that nonsense is over this year.
 
The reason I split them is because they are 100% distinctive from each other. One is an injury, the other is a rehabilitation of muscle and a regeneration of a strength and endurance base. If you can sprint and cut at full force and speed without any pain or hindrance then you are in fact healed and that happens by 6 months in MOST cases according to surgeons attached to world renowned Sports medicine practices I have talked to and had operate on me. But the mere fact that you (figuratively) got so out of shape that your muscle atrophied complicates the return process. That does NOT equate with the sentiment that ACL tears are career enders or the like or that it takes years to heal or get flexibility and range of motion back. Sorry but conditioning is not the same as physical health and that's what I consistently have taken issue with and corrected.

Furthermore you can never address the atrophied muscle and live a daily normal life and probably not ever even notice. The distinction is returning to an elite level of athletics. That takes the extra time to build up that strength and conditioning base. E I've also worn one of those braces and had a completely different experience than you evidently. It was like wearing a weight or spring on my leg and had an enormous effect on my ability to really do anything. Running is one thing but cutting and accelerating moving laterally...all hugely impacted by that stupid brace. I would have been stunned had it NOT had a huge negative effect on him. I also think it's only one part of a whole mix of issues affecting his ability to come back so soon and do it effectively.

And McD like I said all I know is what actual surgeons who have over 90% success rates with this procedure told me and it was that things have progressed so much in the last decade that the 6 times more is just NOT true anymore. In fact MOST have full recoveries and we aren't left with ugly scars and torn up knees, I have scars from bikes wrecks that dwarf my ACL scar. It's just progressed a ton and is no longer anywhere close to what it used to be.

But CT, I never said it was career ending. I was addressing the hasty return to the field. My point was about the return, both factors you address weigh in on the decision to return to the field on a Monday night game to start the new season. The discussion we're having is about returning to early. He was not 100%. You cannot differentiate between the 2 when discussing a return to the field. If the knee is fine and the muscles around it have not healed, aren't you putting added pressure on the ligaments that have been repaired? He was not 100% as you say. He just wasn't and it was obvious on the field. The ligaments may have been repaired, but 100% is simply not accurate.

As for the brace, again...I think you are putting too much weight into it's effect on his performance. His early return to the field was the hinderance in his performance. The brace is only an excuse. It may have played a part in his abilities, but the injury and hasty return were the reason for his poor performance on the field...not because of the brace.
 

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