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Random Commanders Thoughts

McD5 said:
ST, you just made a good illustration of both players. Personally, I'd take Green. But I'm also a Skins fan.

If someone from outside looked in, they might see this:

Green played much longer, yet Champ was an all-pro 7x versus only 4x for Darrell.

Green was a 7x pro-bowler, and Champ 12x pro-bower in far fewer seasons played.

Both had similar Ints, but it didn't take Champ nearly as long to get them.

I'll take Green, but Bailey isn't too far behind him, if at all.
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My point was the opposite. The two aren't on the same level but the stats are not a good gauge. all-pro and pro-bowl votes are just that... votes. Green played the same time Deion Sanders/Rod Woodson/Aeneas Williams/Mike Haynes/Mel Blount/Frank Minnifield/Lester Hayes..


All of which were competing for votes, while Champ was one of the ONLY shut down corners in his era.. Not to mention he played in the AFC which was a much weaker league defensively through his years, yet in the NFC, teams were built on defense and running the football. Champ didn't get votes because he was world beating, he got votes because he was the best with a weak crop.
 
DieselPwr44 said:
You want to know how to beat Champ Bailey? Throw the ball over his head. He can't locate it and if your QB is accurate, he gets burned every time.

As long as the ball is in front of him,where he can see it, he's awesome.

Shawn Springs played better for us than Champ ever did.
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That's a great observation, and definitely his biggest weakness. He does seem to lose sight of the ball when it's thrown behind him.

Champ was young here, and definitely improved after he left. Just like Carlos did.

Better coaching? Just better with experience? I'm not sure. But he definitely improved when he left.
 
SilentThreat said:
My point was the opposite. The two aren't on the same level but the stats are not a good gauge. all-pro and pro-bowl votes are just that... votes. Green played the same time Deion Sanders/Rod Woodson/Aeneas Williams/Mike Haynes/Mel Blount/Frank Minnifield/Lester Hayes..


All of which were competing for votes, while Champ was one of the ONLY shut down corners in his era.. Not to mention he played in the AFC which was a much weaker league defensively through his years, yet in the NFC, teams were built on defense and running the football. Champ didn't get votes because he was world beating, he got votes because he was the best with a weak crop.
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There's a lot of truth to what you say here. However, Darrell also played in a much easier time for CBs. He had an advantage over Champ. The rule changes made Champ's job more difficult.

I'm not sure how much that should be factored in, but it's worth noting.
 
SilentThreat said:
or that they didn't throw at him nearly as often... again, stats CAN lie.
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Did they throw at Deion? That didn't stop him from also recording a similar number of INTS as Darrell in far fewer years. And no one threw at Deion.

I'd say both Deion and Champ probably had better hands. But that's just my opinion.
 
McD5 said:
There's a lot of truth to what you say here. However, Darrell also played in a much easier time for CBs. He had an advantage over Champ. The rule changes made Champ's job more difficult.

I'm not sure how much that should be factored in, but it's worth noting.
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I literally made that point in my post... and while the rules might have been changing, the competition was lower as well.
 
SilentThreat said:
I literally made that point in my post
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I think it's Deion and Green, in whatever order someone prefers. And then there's a big drop off to the next tier of CBs. The stats might somewhat favor Champ over Green, but I believe some of that was due to a void of great CBs in the AFC.

I'm not sure Champ is even the first in that next tier. He may not even be the third best in that next tier. But he's pretty close. I just wouldn't say he's overrated as some have. He's quietly, at least in my opinion, had a pretty spectacular career.
 
McD5 said:
I think it's Deion and Green, in whatever order someone prefers. And then there's a big drop off to the next tier of CBs. The stats might somewhat favor Champ over Green, but I believe some of that was due to a void of great CBs in the AFC.

I'm not sure Champ is even the first in that next tier. He may not even be the third in that next tier. But he's pretty close. I just wouldn't say he's overrated as some have. He's quietly, at least in my opinion, had a pretty spectacular career.
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That's the same thing I've been saying since this conversation started... that Bailey and Green can't fairly be compared.
 
Portis was one of the guys that demanded to be treated by a separate set of rules. That attitude helped to define the issues of the 2000's Redskins and ultimately made them losers, despite some nice individual stats.

Remember when the team had to 'incentivize' him to show up for offseason work despite having a $55M contract in his pocket?

He was a selfish guy that never got the team concept.

Would have been OK if he were a golfer or tennis player.

You only win in the NFL with a team playing and working together.
 
Bulldog's Twin said:
Portis was one of the guys that demanded to be treated by a separate set of rules. That attitude helped to define the issues of the 2000's Redskins and ultimately made them losers, despite some nice individual stats.

Remember when the team had to 'incentivize' him to show up for offseason work despite having a $55M contract in his pocket?

He was a selfish guy that never got the team concept.

Would have been OK if he were a golfer or tennis player.

You only win in the NFL with a team playing and working together.
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That's not wrong but its overstating things. Portis performed on the field perhaps more consistently than any guy in that era. I could have done without some of the clowning and prima donna behavior. But on the field he got it done and for quite a stretch.

I think yours is a fairly harsh assessment that disregards the actual stats and facts.

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Redskins fans picking apart playoff teams and denigrating past players on that team?

Ahhh...the offseason....
 
Portis wasn't half the prima-donna that John Riggins was. Riggins, who held out an entire season for more money, who showed up drunk to team meetings and was hung over for the '82 NFC championship game.

Ulitmately none of that crap matters. What matters is what you do on the field. Portis did his job there. On the field he did whatever the team asked him to ... more than most on those teams. He was shifty, he was a banger, he blocked. He drew the focus of the opposing defenses for years, 320+ carries year after year, into eight-man fronts that never had any respect for the lousy QBs and mediocre WRs he was forced to play with. There were many, many problems with the teams of the 00's. Portis wasn't one of them.
 
Tanard Jackson will likely be reinstated on Tuesday.

Not sure if he's worth anything though.
 
He's cheap though... Give hom a spot in camp... If he struggles cut him

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Bulldog's Twin said:
Portis was one of the guys that demanded to be treated by a separate set of rules. That attitude helped to define the issues of the 2000's Redskins and ultimately made them losers, despite some nice individual stats.

Remember when the team had to 'incentivize' him to show up for offseason work despite having a $55M contract in his pocket?

He was a selfish guy that never got the team concept.

Would have been OK if he were a golfer or tennis player.

You only win in the NFL with a team playing and working together.
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Most players in the league get workout bonuses and other offseason incentives to show up. This is not just Portis.

Also, yes he had a relationship with Snyder, but that's not his fault. That's Snyder's fault. CP was a workhorse who pretty much did everything we asked of him, including fit his square physique into our round-hole running back position. No reason to hate on him, IMO.
 
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