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Random Commanders Thoughts

Skins have signed Dunbar. They've signed Foster. Zach Brown is next.
 
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Boone said:
I didn't used to be so cynical Fear. To be honest, I hate that I am. But a guy can only take so much. I tip my hat to those that still have some faith in this owner and Front Office.
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I remember reading this earlier in the week and wanted to come back and comment on it. I don't think any of us have much if any faith in the current front office. We thought Scot could do great things and went nuts over his drafts at the time, but those are not looking so hot at the moment either. The bottom line is that when this front office is involved, there is a good chance they will mess it up more than they will get it right.

As I think of the Cousins situation, it boggles my mind that so many think that if the Redskins can trade Cousins, get all these picks, or even let him walk for nothing, that they will then pick the right players in the draft. Where is this confidence coming from that this will work? Why do people think that having an abundance of draft picks will end up with great players based on who is making the picks? Looking back through the Snyder era, they have tried and failed at pretty much ever personnel strategy, except one. That is retaining your own players. It's true what Williams said about the draft being a crap shoot. Plenty of can't miss prospects are busts. But when you find good football players, you need to keep them. The Redskins always seem to let their good players walk to try and sign a shiny new player who was good for a huge chunk of change. Then they sign a bunch of middle tier players to fill out the roster. They rarely sign their own players that have done well for them.

I'm not saying that we should sign Cousins at any cost. In reality, they may have no chance even if they offer him 500 million dollars as Gruden joked the other day. But they should be working hard to re-sign him for a cost that will not cripple the team the next 5 years. Otherwise, we will all be putting our faith in the front office to find another guy in the draft. And I don't really have faith they will make the right choice. Oh, I hope they do and I will root hard for whoever it is, but I'm skeptical this front office can find that guy.
 
Fear The Spear said:
I heard Brown was asking for an insane amount of money
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Could be. But I'd seriously question what any source actually knows about the negotiations? I'm guessing that the answer is 'not much'. The player/agent certainly have no reason to let it leak that they want 'an insane amount of money'. And teams usually only leak that kind of thing AFTER they've lost a popular free agent. In other words, I call bullshit until we hear it from a reputable source. That doesn't mean it's not true. But I doubt anyone know that for a fact outside of the primary parties.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
I remember reading this earlier in the week and wanted to come back and comment on it. I don't think any of us have much if any faith in the current front office. We thought Scot could do great things and went nuts over his drafts at the time, but those are not looking so hot at the moment either. The bottom line is that when this front office is involved, there is a good chance they will mess it up more than they will get it right.

As I think of the Cousins situation, it boggles my mind that so many think that if the Redskins can trade Cousins, get all these picks, or even let him walk for nothing, that they will then pick the right players in the draft. Where is this confidence coming from that this will work? Why do people think that having an abundance of draft picks will end up with great players based on who is making the picks? Looking back through the Snyder era, they have tried and failed at pretty much ever personnel strategy, except one. That is retaining your own players. It's true what Williams said about the draft being a crap shoot. Plenty of can't miss prospects are busts. But when you find good football players, you need to keep them. The Redskins always seem to let their good players walk to try and sign a shiny new player who was good for a huge chunk of change. Then they sign a bunch of middle tier players to fill out the roster. They rarely sign their own players that have done well for them.

I'm not saying that we should sign Cousins at any cost. In reality, they may have no chance even if they offer him 500 million dollars as Gruden joked the other day. But they should be working hard to re-sign him for a cost that will not cripple the team the next 5 years. Otherwise, we will all be putting our faith in the front office to find another guy in the draft. And I don't really have faith they will make the right choice. Oh, I hope they do and I will root hard for whoever it is, but I'm skeptical this front office can find that guy.
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I'm sure if they feel Cousins can be signed at anything approaching a reasonable contract, they are trying. But that's a big 'if'. Your post made me think of that scene with Matthew Broderick and Denzel Washington in 'Glory'.



Someone's gonna win Kel :)
 
This is always how I've pictured Dan and Bruce making decisions on player personnel:

 
Kel Varnsen said:
I don't think any of us have much if any faith in the current front office. We thought Scot could do great things and went nuts over his drafts at the time, but those are not looking so hot at the moment either. The bottom line is that when this front office is involved, there is a good chance they will mess it up more than they will get it right.

As I think of the Cousins situation, it boggles my mind that so many think that if the Redskins can trade Cousins, get all these picks, or even let him walk for nothing, that they will then pick the right players in the draft. Where is this confidence coming from that this will work? Why do people think that having an abundance of draft picks will end up with great players based on who is making the picks? Looking back through the Snyder era, they have tried and failed at pretty much ever personnel strategy, except one.

Otherwise, we will all be putting our faith in the front office to find another guy in the draft. And I don't really have faith they will make the right choice. Oh, I hope they do and I will root hard for whoever it is, but I'm skeptical this front office can find that guy.
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Lately, our drafts HAVE looked good. The problem in 2017 was many of them were IR'd
Simply looking at IR, there is plenty of talent we drafted on our own, or brought in as UDFA. They just couldn't contribute in 2017 due to injury,
so that was a poor year to judge output of our draft aquisitions.

This is a list of players ended up on our 2017 IR, that were our own draft or UDFA picks, that absolutely show promise for 2018 and beyond :

Allen, Jonathan DL
Compton, Will LB
Kelley, Rob RB
Long, Spencer C
Murphy, Trent LB
Nicholson, Montae S
Reed, Jordan TE
Thompson, Chris RB
Williams, Trent T

And those are just the injured ones, that unfortunately could not produce in 2017, or not near their fullest.
There were still quite a few healthy ones that we drafted, like Scherff, Moses, Roullier, etc that are building blocks for the future.
The bottom line is in the last several years our drafts absolutely have gotten better.
The idea that the Redskins are incapable of drafting their own talent is a very outdated one. Just look closely at recent years.
I guarantee you if you took the drafts from the past 7 or so years, and compared them to the ones going all the way back to Snyder's start of his ownership, that you would absolutely see a graph that is on a clear upward trend.
 
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Good points Fear.

Of course, it won't stop the myths. They've been around longer. They were true for a long time. More due to coaching/scheme changing than anything else.

But, people need a boogeyman. Who are YOU to deny them that! lol
 
You nailed it. Generally, it seems like there's always gotta be a scapegoat, a fall guy, a whipping boy.....whatever term you prefer to use.
One on offense, when the offense fails. One on defense, when the defense fails. One on the coaching staff, and/or FO.
If something fails, without hesitation, the blame gets finger-pointed at a predetermined scapegoat.
It's always the same guy. Because it's easy and convenient to convict the same person.
Maybe I exaggerate a little, but that's just how it seems to me.
This wasn't directed at any particular person here - just a general observation of common fan behavior. And just something to think about.
So, sorry for the little rant that went on a tangent.
 
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Many times, blame is warranted. The argument comes about when talking solutions.

But the current ongoing myth about the team not keeping there own guys is just that. A myth. It happened in the past, much more than it happens now.

Every team keeps who they think will be best for the team. Being wrong doesn't mean they don't try. We need a little luck, to justify stability. I don't believe Gruden is talented enough to be a great head coach. But he's good enough, provided Lady Luck shines down on us at the QB position.

BTW, if we draft a QB in the 1st, Gruden is likely safe for 3 more years.
 
I am keeping an open mind regarding our ability to draft (even where Bruce Allen is concerned).

But I think you are missing the point some are trying to make regarding draft picks. I haven't heard anyone state that we have not improved in terms of keeping draft picks and using them reasonably well. I think where there's considerable angst is in regards to who was driving how those picks were made. Those who believe McCloughan was some kind of draft savant (I'm not one of them) are concerned that with him gone, our ability to draft wisely and recognize hidden gems, is greatly diminished.

Personally, while McCloughan may have a great eye for overall talent, and one has to always remember there are no guarantees and that drafting well is a combination of skill and luck - I don't think McCloughan was 'all that' in terms of the guys he drafted while in Ashburn. Two examples I'd give are Matt Jones and Sua Cravens. Barring some miraculous turn around with Cravens, that's a 2nd and 3rd rounder who were specific McCloughan man crushes who were both total busts. So I am definitely not of the belief that McCloughan was some infallible Yoda-type like a lot of fans seem convinced of.

It remains to be seen if we continue the upward trend in terms of talent evaluation and drafting - but I'm not afraid with Bruce Allen and the scouting operation we have. We drafted pretty well last year. Of course some will say that those were 'McCloughan's picks' although I don't buy that because I think on draft day, big board or not, you have to make tough decisions and obviously we did so without his input. We won't know for a few years how Bruce Allen (if he remains in his current role) and his team have done in the post-McCloughan era.
 
Patience and hope. A Redskins fan's mantra. I'm patient. I have no choice for the addiction I have.

I have not though spent one red dime on anything team related for over 5 years now and won't until things change for the better. And by better I mean not limping into the final regular season game of the year hoping to beat a crappy opponent for a playoff berth and shitting the bed.

Hear me, Dan?
 
Fear The Spear said:
Lately, our drafts HAVE looked good. The problem in 2017 was many of them were IR'd
Simply looking at IR, there is plenty of talent we drafted on our own, or brought in as UDFA. They just couldn't contribute in 2017 due to injury,
so that was a poor year to judge output of our draft aquisitions.

This is a list of players ended up on our 2017 IR, that were our own draft or UDFA picks, that absolutely show promise for 2018 and beyond :

Allen, Jonathan DL
Compton, Will LB
Kelley, Rob RB
Long, Spencer C
Murphy, Trent LB
Nicholson, Montae S
Reed, Jordan TE
Thompson, Chris RB
Williams, Trent T

And those are just the injured ones, that unfortunately could not produce in 2017, or not near their fullest.
There were still quite a few healthy ones that we drafted, like Scherff, Moses, Roullier, etc that are building blocks for the future.
The bottom line is in the last several years our drafts absolutely have gotten better.
The idea that the Redskins are incapable of drafting their own talent is a very outdated one. Just look closely at recent years.
I guarantee you if you took the drafts from the past 7 or so years, and compared them to the ones going all the way back to Snyder's start of his ownership, that you would absolutely see a graph that is on a clear upward trend.
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I would just state that we've missed on the high impact positions. Allen seems to be a biggie, so that helps, but looking back at our drafts, we've been very unsuccessful at the highest effect places of the field.

QB
RB
MLB
WR
CB - We're looking a lot better with Fuller, Bree is seemingly on the way out the door
FS



I am very happy that we've focused on the lines as of late, and been what would appear to be effective. If we draft a starting caliber LG then we would start this season having a starting line consisting of all players that we drafted here... The same with the D-line if we can add a good NT style DT to split Allen and Ioannidis. This is something we've missed for a LOONG LOOOOOOOONG time.
 
SilentThreat said:
I would just state that we've missed on the high impact positions. Allen seems to be a biggie, so that helps, but looking back at our drafts, we've been very unsuccessful at the highest effect places of the field.

QB
RB
MLB
WR
CB - We're looking a lot better with Fuller, Bree is seemingly on the way out the door
FS
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As I, and others have stated, the constant turnover in coaching staffs, or systems, has been a big part of why our drafting hasn't been as productive as we'd all like.
But to specifically address the positions you listed...
QB - The only teams that haven't struggled, are mostly the lucky ones. Brady was a 6th rounder. Brees was an available FA. Rodgers and Rapistburger fell to their teams. Etc... It's not always the case, but I'm sure you get what I mean.
RB - Again, there are what, 3-5 great RB's in the league? They don't grow on trees either. A better commitment, better blocking and scheme makes more successful RB's than the RB himself. Except in those rare cases. I'd love to find the next Larry Brown. But in the meantime, we need our coach to do more than provide lip service to the running game.
MLB - This may be one of our hardest hit positions, as far as constant scheme/coaching changes go. Manusky is only in the second offseason with the team. Hopefully he will stabilize the defense, and provide our scouts with a good idea of what kind of guys he wants/needs.
WR- No argument here. We have really come up short here. We've drafted some decent guys, but no stars. Hopefully, Doctson will have as big, or bigger, a leap from year 2 to 3, as he did from 1 to 2.
FS - We hit the lotto with Sean Taylor. Doubt we'll ever see another like him, with his potential. Maybe Nicholson will be the steadying force we need at that position.

In all fairness, I think draft criticisms need to be focused on the period of each regime. Even though parts of the FO have remained, their criteria changes with each new coach. That's just the way it is.
 
Ax said:
As I, and others have stated, the constant turnover in coaching staffs, or systems, has been a big part of why our drafting hasn't been as productive as we'd all like.
But to specifically address the positions you listed...
QB - The only teams that haven't struggled, are mostly the lucky ones. Brady was a 6th rounder. Brees was an available FA. Rodgers and Rapistburger fell to their teams. Etc... It's not always the case, but I'm sure you get what I mean.
RB - Again, there are what, 3-5 great RB's in the league? They don't grow on trees either. A better commitment, better blocking and scheme makes more successful RB's than the RB himself. Except in those rare cases. I'd love to find the next Larry Brown. But in the meantime, we need our coach to do more than provide lip service to the running game.
MLB - This may be one of our hardest hit positions, as far as constant scheme/coaching changes go. Manusky is only in the second offseason with the team. Hopefully he will stabilize the defense, and provide our scouts with a good idea of what kind of guys he wants/needs.
WR- No argument here. We have really come up short here. We've drafted some decent guys, but no stars. Hopefully, Doctson will have as big, or bigger, a leap from year 2 to 3, as he did from 1 to 2.
FS - We hit the lotto with Sean Taylor. Doubt we'll ever see another like him, with his potential. Maybe Nicholson will be the steadying force we need at that position.

In all fairness, I think draft criticisms need to be focused on the period of each regime. Even though parts of the FO have remained, their criteria changes with each new coach. That's just the way it is.
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Absolutely, it's very hard to draft for the future if you have no idea what scheme will be around... you can only draft for the current teams needs. This is a painful truth. It's all a crap shoot, but at times it appears we aren't even trying...

QB - RG3 in the 1st round, Kirk in the 3rd round (same draft) Sudfeld in the 6th... that is ALL the QBs we've drafted since Allen took over.
RB - We've tried a bit more with players like Jones and Perine a bit higher, but we've passed on some serious studs. I still have a bit of faith in Perine, but i don't think he'll ever be a game changer.
MLB - Perry Riley (4th round, 2011), Stephen Daniels (7th round, 2016), Thats the extent of our drafted ILB since Allen took over
WR - we agree
FS - Yeah, we hit the lotto with Sean, but he's been gone since before Allen got here.... and we've yet to address the position by anything other than a free agent. Nicholson is listed as a SS, so who knows if he'll move over.


I agree, that probably has a lot to do with it, but QB and MLB still hurt me a lot. Those two players are the most important to their prospective sides of the ball. We've had talent there, when London was here, he was the starter, but that's the best time to bring in some guys and get them learned.

The other thing it shed's a light on is how far back the RG3 trade has set us back.... and the ripple effect it had on the franchise.
 
Kel Varnsen said:
I remember reading this earlier in the week and wanted to come back and comment on it. I don't think any of us have much if any faith in the current front office. We thought Scot could do great things and went nuts over his drafts at the time, but those are not looking so hot at the moment either.
Click to expand...

I've heard this from many, but we have to ask if they've been put in the position to succeed as MacGloughan imagined when drafting them. Of course everyone has busts, but this team as a whole has not been a beacon for developing talent, under Gruden or the current front office.
 
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Chris said:
Patience and hope. A Redskins fan's mantra. I'm patient. I have no choice for the addiction I have.

I have not though spent one red dime on anything team related for over 5 years now and won't until things change for the better. And by better I mean not limping into the final regular season game of the year hoping to beat a crappy opponent for a playoff berth and shitting the bed.

Hear me, Dan?
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Unfortunately, he doesn't hear us. Those who continue to make this franchise one of the most profitable in the world by purchasing team stuff and tickets are still out there making this one of the most profitable in the world. Until that changes drastically, it will be more of the same.
 
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