Random Commanders Thoughts

Boone said:

You're seriously playing the ‘purple nurple' card now? Other than DJ Swearinger spouting off when things are at their toughest, have there been rumors this team practices soft or that there's a lack of effort or intensity?



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This isn't the first time Swearinger's complained about lack luster practices this season.

It's also not the first time this team's come out flat.

The only thing new today was Gruden falling on his sword and admitting the coaches didn't have the team prepared to play.

Like most fans, I'm upset. But I didn't invest too much in the game emotionally today. Last week as a different story and I didn't even want to go to work on Friday after the game. Anyway, what we are seeing on the field is a failure of leadership. I'm not at practices or in team meetings, so I don't know how the team prepares for games or the mentality of the team or coaches leading up to the game. But Swearinger's comments seem to be telling. What I can see is how the team plays on Sundays and the overall effort of the team and coaches. The defense for most of the game just looked like they were going through the motions. They didn't have that fight early on like they had against dallas. At least they showed some effort in the first half of that game on defense. But nothing defensively today.

On offense, they seemed to be surprised at how good the Chargers defense was. The announcers were saying that the Redskins coaches knew they could just run right at the Chargers all day. When that wasn't working and the passing game wasn't clicking, it was like they didn't know what to do. Gruden has always portrayed this look like he doesn't know what is going on or what is happening. He's the coach and he's responsible for what is going on. Yet he never seems to. People have pointed out before how he doesn't have a plan b. He only has plan a and if that doesn't work, he just doesn't know what to do or he just gives up.

Which today, he gave up. After the Breeland TD, if you are trying to win a football game, you go for 2. If you don't get it, then you can kick off and hope the other team runs out the clock for you. But if you get the 2 points, now it's a 2 score game with 2 1/2 minutes left. You try the onside kick and hope for a recovery and then try to score. You show some fight and show you are trying to win. You tell your team that you will win no matter what the odds are or what the situation is. Instead, he kicks the extra point and then kicks deep telling the team he doesn't want to win but wants to just get out of LA. Gruden doesn't want to win. He wants the clock to run out before he loses or before he can be embarrassed even more. The New Orleans game is an example of the former. He just hoped the clock would run out before Brees could bring the Saints back. Today was an example of the latter and he just wanted to get out before it got worse. It's a pretty bad mindset to have as a head coach and it's why he is not a successful head coach.

When you don't have the horses, you don't have the horses. I really don't buy into all of the rest of the psycho babble.

And I mean no disrespect to anyone. But ultimately the better team on the field wins in most Sundays and right now we aren't that. I draw no grand long-term conclusions from it.

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I've said before that I'm kinda like Elephant in that I had low expectations this year, and I'm just not as upset anymore as I used to get. I completely expected them to suck today, and they sure did. I was pretty pissed last weekend, but I got over it pretty quick. I did start to believe earlier in the season after they dominated Oakland, and beat Seattle in Seattle, but when the injuries continued to happen I knew they were in trouble.

I agree with others that this team is just terribly mismanaged from the top down, and has been for a couple decades now. I think they're getting better, like Bulldog mentioned, at not over-paying for aged stars, but they still make so many mistakes managing the roster imo.

I agree with Boone that injuries were a huge part of the collapse this year, but I think some of that goes back to management too. The Skins seem to take a lot of chances on talented players with a history of durability issues, and that philosophy back-fired in their faces this season. That's not the only area of roster management that makes me scratch my head though. Not signing Cousins sooner, letting BOTH starting wideouts go, not drafting more lineman on both sides, it just feels like to me that this organization lacks focus, philosophy, and a concrete plan. The Redskins don't have a management style or identity.

Looking forward, it feels like to me that this could be it for Gruden. I say that, because it feels like Cousins, and many others, won't be back. I guess Snyder and Allen could decide to keep Gruden and try to rebuild with him, but I kinda doubt it.

FWIW I'd say SanFran can be scratched off the possible landing list for Kirk. Garoppolo seems to be heating up and won 2 in a row.

At minimum lower KC's price if we decide to offer a Ltd anyways.

For the record I think we're better off with him than without, but only at the RIGHT price.

On merit, Gruden should be fired. Period.
He's done nothing to warrant keeping a job here.

But as has been mentioned from time to time, by myself since Marty, and by Boone in most recent years, the turnover of staffs and systems has been a huge problem for the franchise. If not the biggest. It's hard to stock a roster when the systems and the criteria for players that fit that system keep changing every few/couple years. Yes, we all know, much of the blame for that ultimately lies with Snyder. Add in the few times when it really wasn't his doing, and you've got a long track record, and a bad reputation. The only way to change the perception, is to change the MO. Which is currently underway. It's painful. And it likely won't bear fruit with Gruden. Sure, Jupiter could align with Mars, while the Moon is in the 7th house. Plan A could work more times than not. And we could have a season where a hangnail was the only injury, etc...
But if we were to fire Gruden now, we're back to square one of the bad reputation race.

In a more stable franchise, sending him walking after 4 seasons of mostly failure, (with 1 season of taking advantage of a division that was dreadful) would be accepted by most as "not that big a deal". For us, it'll be, "here we go again". The injury avalanche is seen by most as giving Gruden a mulligan for this season. I'm not sure it didn't just help mask his shortcomings as a head coach. And, since just gave him an extension, also guaranteed I believe. We have little choice but to give him another year. If we fire him now, the only way to get another coach who might be worth having, is to overpay them. Both financially, and with control. Or, settle for another Zorn.

So, that all being said, the one thing that changes this, is if he refuses to fire Kotwica. We have a good punter. We have had a pretty good run of kickers lately. But our return teams SUCK! Not only do have punt returner who can't track the ball in the air very well, who struggles to catch it cleanly if he does get lucky enough to guess where the ball might land, who then can't seem to hang onto the ball AFTER catching it. But even if he does ALL those things, we can't block a sole. Our coverage teams are spotty, at best. We need a ST coach that knows how to kick ass and gets results. We need a dedicated returner. One that does both KR's and PR's. And not much else.

We need to keep adding better players. Which we've been doing. Oline and Dline to be prioritized.
I like the direction Manusky seems to be headed. Which is being aggressive. When he can. He needs more weapons.

As for Crook. If we want to keep him, then when he comes into the locker after the final game, a contract with or best offer needs to waiting there. He gets 24hrs to sign it, or he can go **** himself eternally. He's been overpaid for 2 years. He's now a multi-millionaire who could retire right now and be set for life. He will be overpaid again, no matter what we offer. I believe the Greedy Lying Bastard is gone. If so, GOOD! We can get 4-5 quality FA's that might actually help us win more. If he stays, so be it. Doubtful he'll ever earn it. And to earn it he needs multiple postseason wins. Including a Super Bowl.

I guess I'm the contrary opinion on Gruden. I never thought he should have been given an extension, especially if it was just to appease KC1. If he were let go at the end of the season, it wouldn't bother me at all. He has barely learned in the last four seasons to do anything off-script, admitted yesterday they just weren't prepared (how the hell does this happen?) and it the man still cannot make halftime adjustments if you had guns pointed at his entire family.

Now, Snyder is forced to keep Gruden for at least another year just for the sake of optics... the wrong reason.

It's too late for him to be taken differently by the players. They have become accustomed to light practices and etcetera. The well is already poisoned, in that sense. If he turns hardass overnight, no one will take him seriously. We can't keep pointing to Belichick as a Coach who failed, then suddenly got it. Belichick is the outlier.

As far as the FO goes, all this pussy-footing with Kirk has taken valuable cap space away from being able to work a deal. I'm talking cap space, not necessarily how much he makes. No competent GM would allow this to drag on so long, one way or another. It's ridiculous. At this point, I just want him gone so the team can move on and these arguments can stop. Either let him walk and get the 3rd round compensatory pick or tag and trade him. Just be done with it. He isn't worth it.

Nick

If Gruden gets fired, believe me, it won't bother me either.

I should also add to my previous post, that losing 2-3 of the last games in the same fashion of the last 2, demands he be fired. It would mean, without a doubt, that the team has given up on him. That can't be repaired.

And, everyone knows I don't care if Crook stays, or goes. But the attempt to sign him to a LTD should come immediately, or not at all.
We'll be fine without him.

We can go 6-10 with a QB who doesn't cost $24m and still fill other spaces.

Until this team gets serious about building dominant lines and securing the Qb position, nothing will change and they will always hover near .500 with the occassional bob above .500 and a token playoff appearance every 8-10 yrs.

Some say, when healthy, we already have a top OL and to be honest, I just don't see it.

The last few weeks,we have watched as the Vikings and Cowboys Olines took over games against us,imposed their will and took the fight out of the team. Has our starting Oline ever done that?
Too many times, this team fails on short yardage rushes. The other day, on sports radio, Geoff Schwartz put it like this: If your backs are getting contacted in the backfield or at the LOS, that's a failure of the Oline.

That goes on too often in our run game, even when 100 % healthy.

The Dline desperately calls out for more talent to go along with Ioannidis and Allen. In hindsight, the FO should've spent their money on Campbell instead of the two McBland bros.

We as fans have talked Redskins football for years and to a member, most have agreed that you win upfront and that we should focus more there as a team.

When do the so-called "professionals" at Redskins Park get the memo?

Does anyone here have any faith in this front office to build two dominant trench units?

Whether one wants to look at the last 26 yrs or the last 20 of this team's performance, the pattern set here doesn't give one a whole lot of confidence.

It definitely starts with the lines. A dominant Oline can carry average QB's, WR's, and RB's to Championships.
I do think it's our running schemes that are a bigger problem than the linemen we have. Sure, we need to solidify center and LG. But the coaches either can't draw up effective run plays, or can't properly teach the ones they do have.

On D, we still, after 783 years, seem to have players better suited to run a 4-3. If a sure fire MLB is available, either in FA or the draft, I'd love to the switch made.
(I just made Brother Ryman's Christmas card list)
If Zach Brown can play the position...BOOM!

We've had a handful of RB's who don't seem to "get it" in an era where the RB is essentially a disposable, wear & tear item.

Other words... it's the scheme, not necessarily the RB. When you can watch running plays develop on TV as a casual observer, they are already taking too long. Imagine that to an NFL-speed player. The run game has never gotten right under Gruden.

I'm still convinced we'd be at top-15 Defense with the current personnel as a 4-3. I don't care about the "Well, most of the plays are run from a 4-3" when the thing is still fundamentally a 3-4 and they still haven't been able to either draft or sign a true, legit NT. They still don't have one. Even Ionnadis is listed as a DE when he'd make an even better DT in a 4-3. All this talk about the LB position would be put to rest, too.

Boone said:

I don't know that you have some new super-objective insight because you've disinvested We all see 'the product'.

'Injuries aside...'. What does that mean? Literally, it means, ignore the fact that half your season starters are no longer on the field. Factor in playing what turns out to be one of the top 2 or 3 hardest schedules this year...

That's quite a bit to 'aside', isn't it?

I don't have much to argue with the rest of your points. The plan at WR has, decidedly, not worked out. Our RB's have not excelled. Our [URL=https://www.bgobsession.com/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=1]#1 [/URL] RB Fat Rob - like him or not - went on IR midseason, and our OL stability has been non-existent.

Nearly every Redskins fan realized this season had a lot of question marks. Totally new defensive coaching staff, new WRs, McVay departing and Gruden calling plays - I don't think it took a genius to figure out there was a lot of instability that could come into play with this team in 2017. Things could've gone our way. With a super solid QB in Cousins, we could've returned as a playoff team. Things didn't go our way, and we now look at a 5-7 win season. Its not a jaw dropping shock.

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Three points and I will leave it alone...

1st - Even with the onslaught of injuries, this team was still talented enough to win games that Gruden lost by his inability to make adjustments, and manage the game itself. This team could be looking at an 8 or 9 win season and they underachieved, regardless of injury.

2nd - The mention of disinterest in the NFL as a whole was not because it gives me super insight no one else has, it simply helps me be much more objective.

Like you said, it doesn't take a rookie to see the WR and RB situation on this team was suspect, but I kept hearing about how Terrelle Pryor was the answer, how an unproven 2nd year player who was actually playing his first full season, would be enough to replace 2 of the better receivers in the league. How a rookie RB would be challenging for the #1 spot, a rookie who was a backup in college. How Fat Rob would be the go to guy, when he'd had 2 100 rush games his whole career.

The shear level of homerism regarding this team leaves way too many fans delusional about the product on the field. I've been guilty of it myself, but you're suggesting that the overwhelming majority of fans did not think we'd compete for the division. There were many on this site who thought we would.

3rd - The Dan Snyder effect: I truly believe in our lifetime, we will never see a dominant Redskins' team again as long as Dan Snyder is in charge. The man simply cannot build a successful football team on the field. And as long as Bruce Allen is by his side, it compounds that.

Best example I can give is the latest coaching hire...Jay Gruden. The man can put together a damn good offense, but lacks the leadership skills it takes to be a winning NFL coach. He's no leader, much like we've seen before. Snyder had the chance to bring in a leader, a coach who knows the game, Zimmer who lost his starting QB and his starting RB, but is still competing for the NFC Title. These guys came from the same team, one has elevated their team to solid contender, the other has not. It was because Snyder was enamored with the prospect of a dynamic offense that would fill seats by scoring points, not a boring defensive minded coach who understands that winning is more than just a high powered offense....that seats will fill when team is competitive, contending.

When healthy we have one of the better lines in the NFL.

Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers and Russell Wilson all play behind lines that are significantly more limited than ours.

On defense, Allen and Ioannidis are the START of a good line.

Young, coachable players with upside.

What the team needs is 2-3 more DL from the draft to fill out the starting unit and provide that first line of depth when there are injuries.

After Jonathan and Matt got hurt there was no one left up front that scared anyone.

Terrell McClain and Stacy McGhee were reaches in free agency as guys that could come in and make an impact.

These guys are spot starters/rotation guys who are effective 20-25 plays a game.

Over 16 games they are not frontline performers yet we paid them like starters.

That was a clear mistake in free agency.

So, I see an OL that should be fine in 2018 and a DL that could be markedly better with the two youngsters back and a couple of wise investments in the offseason.

What we need IMO most of all is skill players.

On offense we don't have a franchise back. One of the reasons Goff has been so successful is the presence of Todd Gurley.

At wide receiver and tight end we have a lot of maybes and possibles.

Josh Doctson has not shown he is near arriving as a truly consistent playmaker.

Jamison Crowder has failed the test in showing he is capable of moving out of the Garçon/Jackson shadow to be a top threat on his own.

I don't think we should move on from these guys just yet, but we can't count on them to be the starters next season and give them a pass either.

At tight end we need to reshuffle the cards.

We in essence are starting 33 year old Vernon Davis. He is the only tight end that ends up being both healthy and productive over 16 games.

Sprinkle is a rookie with size and some upside so he's fine as the #4 .

Niles Paul has to go. We are paying a clear #3 TE almost $2M a year. He doesn't make plays in the passing game and is the best of a horrible group of blockers at the position.

We need to find a backup TE that can help on Teams for less.

The team needs to give serious thought to bringing Reed back. There isn't a more injury prone player in the NFL. He came to camp hurt!

For the money we aren't getting anywhere near fair value.

I haven't checked on his contract details but we need to give at least some thought to moving on from him.

We need to bring in a veteran blocking end at the very least here if we keep Reed for another year.

Finally, at outside linebacker we have invested heavily in draft picks and cash for Kerrigan, Smith, Murphy, Anderson and waited two years for Galette.

Unfortunately we still don't have that dominant outside rusher that causes offenses to change their game plan to account for him.

Kerrigan is a 100% effort guy that takes advantage of his opportunities to use his smarts and guile to beat people.

He schooled the Giants' RT a couple of weeks ago.

But in games against the Eagles and Cowboys he didn't really impact those contests when facing pro bowl caliber tackles.

We need a guy that can win one on one against the better OL the way Miller or Beasley does.

Without that player and a competent nose tackle there is no point in running a 3-4 or even lining up in it a certain percentage of the time.

We need to be able to stop the run, which again we didn't do against Dallas or the Eagles.

We didn't even slow down Dallas' backup rusher Alfred Morris.

Reed would be draft day trade bait if it were me.

We need a veteran WR. Not sure who's available. But a clear #1 is the best option. A high end #2 if that's the best we can get.

A veteran RB, skilled at pass pro.

LG and C.

A QB who wins.

On defense we need the 4-3, and more quality interior linemen.

EDIT: And a new special teams coach!

When you have a tough season to finish and when it's clear the regular season is emphatically over, you begin to hear a lot of noise, much of it correct and reasonably accurate, but also much of it simply off base.

Our lines are not a finished product. But the Redskins HAVE focused on both the lines in recent drafts. It's unfair to suggest they haven't. Have we used every pick in 2 or 3 drafts on them? No. And neither has any other NFL team. But we have brought in significant talent and I believe we'll continue to do so.

Gruden deserves the heat he is getting right now. But those calling for him to be fired so that we can blow it all up and start over again from top to bottom for the gazillionth time - I think that would be the absolute worst possible decision. We knew this was going to be a transition year. I don't know where all the idiot fans here are that you claim said we were going to the Super Bowl this year Elephant? I don't know anyone here who wasn't, in their heart, nervous about losing our top 2 WRs, about our questionable running game, losing McVay as primary signal caller, etc... Add in major injuries to starter after starter after starter, ending up with one of the toughest schedules in the league (just by sheer effing luck) and none of us should really expect more than a .500 team this year.

Sometimes, the best thing a franchise can do is knuckle down and ignore the noise. Ignore the media. Ignore the fans. Circle the wagons. Quiet down the internal chirping, fingerpointing, and strife. Get your team focused back on the task at hand. And resist the urge to panic. All we've seen from our owner and 'GM' for 20+ years is panic, an inability to commit to long term coaches, and pandering to the fans. If they follow my advice, I think we will continue to improve and better days will come. If we don't, it's back to the circus for all of us. If you guys think we are going to find a better coach than Gruden coming off him being summarily fired, with all the drama that will ensue, and with where we are as an org right now - I'm sorry, but you are just flat out kidding yourself.

I don't think things are as bad as they are being painted. It's brutal to lose 2 straight games you had to have, in the fashion we lost them. It's a lost season plain and simple. Pointing to players spouting off - I hate it - but I don't think it 'means' anything other than that they are frustrated and venting. Pointing to Gruden saying he didn't have the team ready to play - that doesn't equate to he and the other coaches not caring, not trying, and just mailing it in. He's taking the pressure and blame and heaping on himself so that others don't have to endure it. He's saying 'It's on me'. And it is. That doesn't mean he is not a good coach and that the past 2 games represent his entire worth. We need to stick with Gruden and continue grinding. It's going to get better.

IMHO, the team's focus right now has to be to quiet the noise and make it clear that stability, hard work, and perserverance is going to reign, not panic and finger pointing. If we had an owner or 'GM' worth 2 shits, they'd already be expressing these things.

Sign Kirk - maybe not 'at all costs' - but if it takes $30 mill/year for 5 years, do it.
Make it clear Gruden's not going anywhere.
Make it clear that tryouts at every position are currently underway and that those who show they will continue to fight and who can concentrate and perform will be Redskins in 2018.
We need to commit to signing the best offensive weapons available at RB/WR/TE with our first 3 picks.
We need to find the best ST coach out there (mine the college ranks if necessary) and hire him.
We need guys who need offseason surgeries to have them now.

Those would be keys if it were up to me.

This is far from the first time Gruden has put a "meh" team on the field, though. Two chances last season to get some kind of playoff traction and one game against a team that literally had nothing to play for and the team came out as flat as possible. The last two games, it was the like the team didn't even care.

Crook is about the money. He'll do whatever his agent tells him to do. I don't think $30mil will be enough. Though it's twice what he's worth.
Agree on Gruden. Unless the last 3 games go like the last 2 did. Would mean the team has given up on him. That couldn't be fixed, IMHO.
And BTW, I do believe he will ultimately be fired after next season.
We have a bunch of free agents on the team. Them re-signing, or not, will say a lot about how they feel about Gruden & Co. And tryouts should be a 24/7/365 deal.
I'll forever be a BPA guy in the draft. Only if it's close, do you go need. But we do need the 3 you mention. I don't care how they're obtained.
New special teams coach? Yes. Please. For the love of spiders. Yes.
If they're cleared to play, they play.

ntotoro said:

This is far from the first time Gruden has put a "meh" team on the field, though. Two chances last season to get some kind of playoff traction and one game against a team that literally had nothing to play for and the team came out as flat as possible. The last two games, it was the like the team didn't even care.

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Nothing there to argue with brother. My feelings can be summed up as follows. To win in the NFL, job #1 is assembling the talent. I think under Gruden our team talent has greatly improved. That's why I won't make a final judgment of Gruden in a year where we had an incredibly tough schedule with half our horses in the stable. Can Gruden be even an above average head coach long-term? I think that's still in question. But I'd prefer the team show some effing patience for once and not overreact to a season where just about everything that could go wrong did go wrong.

Post #3000

WITNESS ME!!!!!!!!