where do we go from here?

Ax said:

Yeah, and we all know Gary Clark ran a 3.40, in pads.
Caught every pass ever thrown to him.
Remained 26 years old his entire career.
Played for free.
And never fumbled.

And some people still had a problem with him too.

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and who was that sarcasm bomb aimed for?

SilentThreat said:

This post is the exact reason why i willingly have left other Redskins message boards. This season is a wash!? ARE YOU SERIOUS?? We were 2:00 away from being in first place. Overhaul the O-line? We have the number 1 ranked rushing offense in the NFL... We're in every game. We have a legit shot at every game. Auditioning younger players? Half of our offense is on the young side of their 20s, 2 of our strongest starters are ROOKIES. What football team are you watching? Were one of the youngest teams in the league, and that's STILL including London Fletcher who's at the top of his game.

Come on... Enjoy a season for once.. were 7 games in.

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Ok reality check because obviously some of you arent watching the games.

Morris has made a pile of great runs that dont get on espn, why? because they are for 2-4 yards. why were they great? because they should have gone for a loss, often he is making people miss while just barely getting the ball and he slides into seams better than anyone we have had in a long time. now Imagine if he wasnt getting pressured to make moves in the backfield, imagine him getting a 3-4 yard start before even seeing a different colour jersey?

Griffin has throw a LOT of short passes and this helped his accuracy stats, because he often didnt have time to throw anything else though so thats misleading, when he gets time he makes them count and he is so dangerous on the move that he has opened a lot of things up, but once he actually gets a workable pocket, we will see far more from him I think. frankly again, when we get an OLine this wont be a solid offence, this will be a great offence.

I think its funny that guys dont watch the game and then make comments to people who do, if you watched the games you would know that our Oline aside from monty who has played decently in every game and very well in most games and TW who has been up and down, is basically overmatched on every play. chester has no push in the run game and lick is so undersized that he often gets blown up even when he gets in postion. Polumbus looks like a turnstyle againts any decent DE and forced us to keep a TE in to help way too often. so yeah replacing 3 starters out of 5 to me is an overhaul.

I am not gonna fault anyone for getting excited, we have something to get excited about, we have a great young RB and a Great Young QB for the first time in decades, but thats what we have, what we dont have is a solid Oline, or even a decent one, lets not start fooling ourselves by quoting stats either, there is only one stat that matters and we dont lead the league in it.

im worried that we will get all excited and think " we can win with these guys" and then spend the resources somewhere else, making us wait yet longer for a decent oline lol,

as for the season, im not having any expectations, if we win, cool, but this season im just happy seeing rg3 develop and not get hurt, i wont have serious expectations until next year, for now i want us to build the team,

Rymanofthenorth said:

Ok reality check because obviously some of you arent watching the games.

Morris has made a pile of great runs that dont get on espn, why? because they are for 2-4 yards. why were they great? because they should have gone for a loss, often he is making people miss while just barely getting the ball and he slides into seams better than anyone we have had in a long time. now Imagine if he wasnt getting pressured to make moves in the backfield, imagine him getting a 3-4 yard start before even seeing a different colour jersey?

Griffin has throw a LOT of short passes and this helped his accuracy stats, because he often didnt have time to throw anything else though so thats misleading, when he gets time he makes them count and he is so dangerous on the move that he has opened a lot of things up, but once he actually gets a workable pocket, we will see far more from him I think. frankly again, when we get an OLine this wont be a solid offence, this will be a great offence.

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alright, well if were gonna start making the generalization that people aren't watching the games, you must not be because they flash the words offenSe and defenSe across the screen regularly, but i see you like to spell it offenCe. Before you try and belittle me, check your spell check that you're spelling it correctly.

In addition to that, lets take a look at the stats. You don't lead the league in rushing without an adequate offensive line. Are they the best in the league? Absolutely not, and i'm not making that argument anywhere, however the argument i am making, i'll include Griffin in that because he is a huge part of our rushing attack, and look at the experience and the age of our backfield.

Griffin - R
Morris - R
Young - 3
Helu - 2 (IR)
Royster - 2

You cant tell me, as young as these guys are, that he O-Line doesn't have SOMETHING to do with the fact that they're being successful? Come on.

Rymanofthenorth said:

I think its funny that guys dont watch the game and then make comments to people who do, if you watched the games you would know that our Oline aside from monty who has played decently in every game and very well in most games and TW who has been up and down, is basically overmatched on every play. chester has no push in the run game and lick is so undersized that he often gets blown up even when he gets in postion. Polumbus looks like a turnstyle againts any decent DE and forced us to keep a TE in to help way too often. so yeah replacing 3 starters out of 5 to me is an overhaul.

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Ok so you want to make an argument that these guys are getting blown off the ball and 3 of the 5 need replacing? But then below here you don't want me to quote stats to justify my argument? No, the world doesn't work that way. Stats don't lie. Here's a stat for you.

Alfred Morris has 1 less rushing yard then Arian Foster... in 30, count it, 30 less carries.... that is not because he's simply making great plays turning negative into positives, yes that has a lot to do with it, but it also has to do with the blocking scheme we run. These guys are taught to engage the defender momentarily and shed, thus allowing the hole to open up and the RB to hit it.. and hit it hard. This is what makes Morris so good is his vision and his ability to work with THIS offensive line.

Rymanofthenorth said:

I am not gonna fault anyone for getting excited, we have something to get excited about, we have a great young RB and a Great Young QB for the first time in decades, but thats what we have, what we dont have is a solid Oline, or even a decent one, lets not start fooling ourselves by quoting stats either, there is only one stat that matters and we dont lead the league in it.

im worried that we will get all excited and think " we can win with these guys" and then spend the resources somewhere else, making us wait yet longer for a decent oline lol,

as for the season, im not having any expectations, if we win, cool, but this season im just happy seeing rg3 develop and not get hurt, i wont have serious expectations until next year, for now i want us to build the team,

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The last thing i'm going to mention here is the age of the O-Line we have on the roster right now.

Montgomery - C/G - 7 years experience
Lichtensteiger - C/G - 4 years experience

Chester - G - 7 years experience
Hurt - 2 years experience
Gettis - Rookie
LeRibeus - Rookie

Black - OT - 7 years experience
Polumbus - OT - 4 years experience
Williams - OT - 3 years experience


Last time i checked, offensive linemen are DEVELOPED, and we have youth there. This notion that you can draft an O-linemen and he can come in and dominate is absolutely insane and people need to realize that. This league, and this division especially, has some superman like players playing on the D-line and expecting young guys to stop them, stone cold, on EVERY PLAY is ridiculous. I will agree that we need to add a couple pieces, and that at time this line frustrates me, but they need to work TOGETHER and screaming for an OVERHAUL every time they give up a sack is over the top.

We gave up 3 sacks to arguably, the best defensive front 7 in football. Does Griffin have something to do with that, absolutely, but so does our O-line. We have much bigger needs on this team then (and coming into this year, i never thought i would have been saying this) offensive line, and to be honest, i've been proud of what i've seen out of these guys. They've stepped up and they've done their jobs. Is there still work to do, absolutely, but this year i can absolutely see progress, i see big holes, and i see Griffin having time to attempt the deep ball on occasion.

FWIW offence and offense are both correct, one is the British spelling and one is the American.

And Ryman what exactly are you looking to accomplish with this statement other than to insult and piss off a bunch of people around here? "Ok reality check because obviously some of you arent watching the games." It's needlessly "douchy" and really is tedious when these useless things are injected because you guys make some great points around all the bullhockey. I agree with your points about the O line for example but see a more glaring need in the secondary. I would put O Line at #2 though. The problem is this Cap penalty, it's going to hinder us next offseason as well and limit our ability to address both. We're going to wind up with more scrubs in some of those slots next year.

I agree with Countertrey...why are you trying to insult so many on this board? Ryman you seem like an intelligent and articulate poster but when you break down the X's and O's to support what the Skins should and shouldn't do...you seem to ignore the cap penalties and restrictions. A team can't just blow up a line and rebuild without some concerns about the cap.

I'll third the fact that the secondary is the most glaring weakness. We need another CB or two, and two safeties (can Jackson stay off the reefer? Can Meriweather bounce back? Who knows) to get started. Hopefully Crawford and Bernstein can address some of these needs, but its still too early to tell on them. Chris Horton looked great his rookie season, then inexplicably regressed to the point of being out of the NFL.

CounterTrey said:

FWIW offence and offense are both correct, one is the British spelling and one is the American.

And Ryman what exactly are you looking to accomplish with this statement other than to insult and piss off a bunch of people around here? "Ok reality check because obviously some of you arent watching the games." It's needlessly "douchy" and really is tedious when these useless things are injected because you guys make some great points around all the bullhockey. I agree with your points about the O line for example but see a more glaring need in the secondary. I would put O Line at #2 though. The problem is this Cap penalty, it's going to hinder us next offseason as well and limit our ability to address both. We're going to wind up with more scrubs in some of those slots next year.

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I couldn't agree with this more. Our secondary has glaring holes and we need to address them... We need to do something at Free, keep Doughty at Strong, and we need either a true no. 1, or a better no. 2 and that Free Safety help.


I know i'm going to sound either a little crazy, or a little bit like my boy, but i firmly believe that if Reed Doughty is in at safety on that play, things go differently. I honestly don't think he gets caught flatfooted and out of position.

SilentThreat said:

I know i'm going to sound either a little crazy, or a little bit like my boy, but i firmly believe that if Reed Doughty is in at safety on that play, things go differently. I honestly don't think he gets caught flatfooted and out of position.

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He would've just lost the footrace outright, lol.

Lanky Livingston said:

He would've just lost the footrace outright, lol.

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I don't think Cruz gets behind him. I think he's in better position while they might give up a play, i believe he keeps Cruz out of the endzone, and who knows what happens from there.

SilentThreat said:

I don't think Cruz gets behind him. I think he's in better position while they might give up a play, i believe he keeps Cruz out of the endzone, and who knows what happens from there.

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I was just taking a potshot at Doughty. I believe you're right, Doughty probably recognizes the situation much better, and is at least in position to break up the pass. Who knows if he does? We've seen him in position before, and just gets beat physically. But yeah, I agree with you - he wouldn't have been caught flat-footed like that. Inexcusable, IMO, for Williams to do so. If we didn't have such a dearth at the position, I would have cut him.

Lanky Livingston said:

I was just taking a potshot at Doughty. I believe you're right, Doughty probably recognizes the situation much better, and is at least in position to break up the pass. Who knows if he does? We've seen him in position before, and just gets beat physically. But yeah, I agree with you - he wouldn't have been caught flat-footed like that. Inexcusable, IMO, for Williams to do so. If we didn't have such a dearth at the position, I would have cut him.

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by the way, you need to change your sig

Lanky Livingston said:

I was just taking a potshot at Doughty. I believe you're right, Doughty probably recognizes the situation much better, and is at least in position to break up the pass. Who knows if he does? We've seen him in position before, and just gets beat physically. But yeah, I agree with you - he wouldn't have been caught flat-footed like that. Inexcusable, IMO, for Williams to do so. If we didn't have such a dearth at the position, I would have cut him.

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I agree with both of you. Reed might have gotten beat, but I'd bet he at least makes a play on it and stops the TD. No way he'd have been caught as off guard as Williams evidently was.

The rushing stats can be misleading because Griffin is getting yardage in chunks up the field rolling wide for 7 or 8 yards per carry.

Cunningham, Steve Young, the early Vick all did the same thing in terms of helping their team's run stats rise near the top.

But that's hardly an endorsement of the OL.

I don't recall the Eagles or Falcons having great lines during those years.

I also agree that Morris has had to get a lot of his yards after contact, meaning the line is not neutralizing that first zone of the defense.

When Morris does get room it is usually on drives where Griffin has set the table with a long run or bang-bang passes that have the defense on their heels.

This is not the Hogs in Super Bowl 17 or 22 folks.

Again, Trent Williams has come on and now looks like he may live up to his draft position at left tackle.

That is the really good news.

Elsewhere, Polumbus and Lichtensteiger are backup quality players and that's what they were before they came to Washington.

Chester and Montgomery are serviceable, meaning if you are strong at the tackles and have a top flight LG inside then you can get by with them.

But they are not a SOURCE of strength.
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The O line is doing better because they have a QB that works with them to avoid pressure. The O Line doesn't have to be perfect - they just have to block in a way that allows Griffin to figure out what to do - whether that be scramble, get rid of the ball quick, throw it away, etc.

This is also the first time in a long time the same 5 guys have started 7 games in a row. Williams missed some time due to an injury in one game, but other than that we finally have some consistency up front.

You don't need a great O line to win a super bowl, Rapelsburger certainly didn't have a great O line when he last won one. You just need everyone to be on the same page; o coordinator/play caller, qb, o line, receivers, rb. Being on the same page and working with each other is going to cover up for lack of individual talent.

But Ben is only 30 and appears to be breaking down due to injuries in consecutive seasons. When he came into the league and won in 2005 the Steelers had a very good offensive line. The 2008 line was also good.

Since then they have aged and except for Pouncey haven't successfully replaced their talent.

The kind of pounding Ben is taking now is not what I want to see happen to Griffin.

Yes, as a rookie on a rebuilding team one can accept that with limited talent on the OL Griffin is going to have to run more and sometimes scramble for his life.

That's fine at 22 or 23.

But hopefully over time we can surround him with better talent so he can be that drop back passer that leads this team to 12 or 13 wins and runs in critical situations where his athleticism makes the difference in big games.

But running abd getting exposed against the Rams or Bucs?

No way.
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tshile said:

This is also the first time in a long time the same 5 guys have started 7 games in a row. Williams missed some time due to an injury in one game, but other than that we finally have some consistency up front.

You don't need a great O line to win a super bowl, Rapelsburger certainly didn't have a great O line when he last won one. You just need everyone to be on the same page; o coordinator/play caller, qb, o line, receivers, rb. Being on the same page and working with each other is going to cover up for lack of individual talent.

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Exactamoondo!

And, Bulldog, no one is going to confuse these guys with the Hogs. But the Hogs brand of Oline play, and the current style are two different animals.

Think about this, unless we drafted ever one of them at the same time, the salary cap era wouldn't allow us to keep the Hogs together. Them days are gone brother.

The Giants have mixed and matched on their OL pretty well given the cap as have the Texans.

Manning and Schaub have the time to set up and find receivers.

That's what I am looking for here, not a line comprised of Hall of Famers.

I don't think one high pick for Trent is enough of an investment for the OL, to then fill the other spots with castoffs and waiver wire guys.

We need better than that.
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Bulldog's Twin said:

The Giants have mixed and matched on their OL pretty well given the cap as have the Texans.

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The Texans lost two major pieces of their OL this offseason in Winston & Meyers, due to the cap. The Giants OL was together for 3-5 years before becoming truly dominant, and they don't have any one "superstar" on that line, its a solid unit.

SilentThreat said:

alright, well if were gonna start making the generalization that people aren't watching the games, you must not be because they flash the words offenSe and defenSe across the screen regularly, but i see you like to spell it offenCe. Before you try and belittle me, check your spell check that you're spelling it correctly.

In addition to that, lets take a look at the stats. You don't lead the league in rushing without an adequate offensive line. Are they the best in the league? Absolutely not, and i'm not making that argument anywhere, however the argument i am making, i'll include Griffin in that because he is a huge part of our rushing attack, and look at the experience and the age of our backfield.

Griffin - R
Morris - R
Young - 3
Helu - 2 (IR)
Royster - 2

You cant tell me, as young as these guys are, that he O-Line doesn't have SOMETHING to do with the fact that they're being successful? Come on.




Ok so you want to make an argument that these guys are getting blown off the ball and 3 of the 5 need replacing? But then below here you don't want me to quote stats to justify my argument? No, the world doesn't work that way. Stats don't lie. Here's a stat for you.

Alfred Morris has 1 less rushing yard then Arian Foster... in 30, count it, 30 less carries.... that is not because he's simply making great plays turning negative into positives, yes that has a lot to do with it, but it also has to do with the blocking scheme we run. These guys are taught to engage the defender momentarily and shed, thus allowing the hole to open up and the RB to hit it.. and hit it hard. This is what makes Morris so good is his vision and his ability to work with THIS offensive line.



The last thing i'm going to mention here is the age of the O-Line we have on the roster right now.

Montgomery - C/G - 7 years experience
Lichtensteiger - C/G - 4 years experience

Chester - G - 7 years experience
Hurt - 2 years experience
Gettis - Rookie
LeRibeus - Rookie

Black - OT - 7 years experience
Polumbus - OT - 4 years experience
Williams - OT - 3 years experience


Last time i checked, offensive linemen are DEVELOPED, and we have youth there. This notion that you can draft an O-linemen and he can come in and dominate is absolutely insane and people need to realize that. This league, and this division especially, has some superman like players playing on the D-line and expecting young guys to stop them, stone cold, on EVERY PLAY is ridiculous. I will agree that we need to add a couple pieces, and that at time this line frustrates me, but they need to work TOGETHER and screaming for an OVERHAUL every time they give up a sack is over the top.

We gave up 3 sacks to arguably, the best defensive front 7 in football. Does Griffin have something to do with that, absolutely, but so does our O-line. We have much bigger needs on this team then (and coming into this year, i never thought i would have been saying this) offensive line, and to be honest, i've been proud of what i've seen out of these guys. They've stepped up and they've done their jobs. Is there still work to do, absolutely, but this year i can absolutely see progress, i see big holes, and i see Griffin having time to attempt the deep ball on occasion.

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Im Canadian, and I speak the queens english, so thanks for coming out.

WE lead the league in rushing because we have a rushing QB, not because we have a dominating Oline, remember all those years that Philly and then ATL led the league in rushing? same deal. its a misleading stat.

the scheme has made this oline look decent at times , but the fact is that they get blown up a lot, morris has had a great season so far but his averages are inflated by his longer runs , frankly when we play a decent defence, he is benefitting from teams really being aware of RG3. the age of this oline means hardly anything given that only monty and TW have been playing very well, lick and chester need to be replaced and polumbus only starts because we didnt get anyone better and brown has been hurt.

btw the guys who asked why I was being "douchey" lol read who i was responding to, im ok with someone arguing with me, but dont quote your opinion and act like im not watching the games, when its clear by the statements someone makes if they are watching the games or just reading about them later.

also sorry i should read all the responces before responding, someone else already brought up atlanf philly lol as well as the fact that we dont need 5 HOF plyers, 2 would be nice with a mix of guys all the way from mid roundders to udfa, but right now we have what amounts to one high rounder and 4 udfa