A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1
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    Default Bacon At Ramadan Celebration Probed As Hate Crime

    http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...-as-hate-crime

    I understand the hate crime legislation and why we need it, but I think things are getting a little ridiculous and it's being overused.

    This would be like charging someone with a hate crime for showing up to a Chanukah celebration wearing a Christmas sweater.
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    James Madison

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    Pretty rude and disgusting, not sure that it falls into the hate crime category though.

    On a side note, did they say what they did with the bacon? Cause if there's any left...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme
    This would be like charging someone with a hate crime for showing up to a Chanukah celebration wearing a Christmas sweater.
    I disagree.

    Three packages of uncooked bacon were left behind along with a note, which was signed by someone who used a code name and referenced a web site, Police Commissioner Ray Kelly told reporters Monday. The web site mentioned in the note contained references to the raw bacon, Kelly said.
    That's pretty bad. If this were a Passover celebration and someone left bacon behind with a note ... That's not just thoughtlessness. It's intimidation. I don't know exactly what 'hate crime' is defined as but I don't think an active attack on a religion like that shouldn't just be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje
    On a side note, did they say what they did with the bacon? Cause if there's any left...
    Heh. I hear that.
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    James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I disagree.



    That's pretty bad. If this were a Passover celebration and someone left bacon behind with a note ... That's not just thoughtlessness. It's intimidation. I don't know exactly what 'hate crime' is defined as but I don't think an active attack on a religion like that shouldn't just be ignored.



    Heh. I hear that.
    I think we can all agree these bastards should be put away for a long time if for no other reason than wasting bacon. Savages!
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  5. #5
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    Navy

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    Is it really a hate crime, or an enlightened person wanting his fellow neighbors to try the other white meat instead of going their entire life without knowing the delicacy that is Ham and Cheese or bacon and eggs?

    Naw its a very tasteless joke.

    Leaving bacon at a place like that is wrong....... especially when there are children at tailgates missing out on homemade Baconators, chocolate covered or bacon chicken and bacon kebobs.
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    I shall not be denied my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of arterial plaque!
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    Its a very tasteless joke. But sometimes very tasteless jokes can be illegal. This could definitely be seen as intimidation as Henry says, which makes it assault (based on my understanding of assault). And seeing as how it was motivated by religious difference, I think it definitely falls under the 'hate crime' umbrella. Just my 2 cents though.
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    I get the whole intimidation, trust me I do. But hate crime? If this passes as a hate crime, then what is to stop any crime from being turned into a hate crime? That's more the problem I have with it. To me, any crime against another person is technically a hate crime. Doesn't mean it should be prosecuted as such. And since there are know laws on the books that I know of that say you can't leave raw bacon somewhere, then I'm not sure how this even falls into the crime category, let alone hate crime.

    Now, if someone had beat a Muslim unconscious, then left him covered in bacon, I could see the argument. But simply leaving bacon in a park? While idiotic, ignorant and childish, not sure where a crime was committed. And if intimidation is a crime (I don't know what the laws are on the subject) then what those black panthers at the polls in 2008 did was waaaaaaaaaay worse than this, and that should be a hate crime if this is.

    The whole being intolerant of peoples cultures and religious beliefs is the stupidest thing in the world. I'm an atheist, but I don't sit here and rail against the word god on our money, I say the pledge the way it was written, and I go to religious events all the time with friends and family that are Christian, Jewish, Buddhist, and Muslim. I think it's a great thing to learn about all of these things to better understand people, but I never understood why people get so uptight and bent out of shape just because someone's beliefs differ from theirs. This is another example of why people suck, I just don't see it as a hate crime in any way. Just a bad joke that never should have been made.
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    Without knowing more I'd be leery of calling this a hate crime. It's rude, offensive, insensitive, inciteful, but I don't know that it meets the threshhold of hate crime.

    I reserve the right to change my mind, but I don't think that bacon has the historical or cultural weight of saying painting a swaztika on a synagogue or defacing an image of Mouhamad, or placing a noose or burning cross in a different setting.
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    Without knowing more I'd be leery of calling this a hate crime. It's rude, offensive, insensitive, inciteful, but I don't know that it meets the threshhold of hate crime.

    I reserve the right to change my mind, but I don't think that bacon has the historical or cultural weight of saying painting a swaztika on a synagogue or defacing an image of Mouhamad, or placing a noose or burning cross in a different setting.
    Yep.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    what did the note attached say? thats what would decide it for me.
    And yep.
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    My guess then would be to trust police who actually READ the note. Or at the very least wait to know more before passing judgement about their decision to call it what they feel is appropriate.

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    But Henry, there have been multiple examples in the news of police immediately jumping to the hate crime charge any time it's a crime against a minority. Even minor incidents like this. It's almost like they immediately say hate crime just in case.

    Then when you have a genuine hate crime, like the black mob attacking the white teen and telling him they were doing it for Trayvon, (I can't recall exactly where, but I believe it was somewhere in the Midwest like St. Louis) no hate crime charges were filed? There's a very huge double standard.

    Besides, until leaving bacon somewhere becomes a crime, the only thing this guy is guilty of is being a dick. There was no crime committed, unless news reports are leaving out a whole lot.

    If the story holds up as nothing more than what's currently being reported, and they do find the guy.....he will certainly claim it was his right under the first amendment. Again, the guy is just a dick, not a criminal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    ... Again, the guy is just a dick, not a criminal.
    Thank goodness, if dickishness were criminalized a third of the population would be incarcerated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    But Henry, there have been multiple examples in the news of police immediately jumping to the hate crime charge any time it's a crime against a minority. Even minor incidents like this. It's almost like they immediately say hate crime just in case.

    Then when you have a genuine hate crime, like the black mob attacking the white teen and telling him they were doing it for Trayvon, (I can't recall exactly where, but I believe it was somewhere in the Midwest like St. Louis) no hate crime charges were filed? There's a very huge double standard.

    Besides, until leaving bacon somewhere becomes a crime, the only thing this guy is guilty of is being a dick. There was no crime committed, unless news reports are leaving out a whole lot.

    If the story holds up as nothing more than what's currently being reported, and they do find the guy.....he will certainly claim it was his right under the first amendment. Again, the guy is just a dick, not a criminal.
    This is one of the times where I'll criticize the press. It is possible in these situations, a reporter asks... "Do you think this was a hate crime?" and the police spokesperson answers "We're exploring all possibilities at this point." or something more direct like "We are investigating that possibility" and away we go.

    I go back on forth about whether that type of question is reasonable to ask... it probably is, but I do find in this sensational world we live in sometimes the qualifiers get left behind esp. in titles.

    I don't know if that's the case here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    But Henry, there have been multiple examples in the news of police immediately jumping to the hate crime charge any time it's a crime against a minority. Even minor incidents like this. It's almost like they immediately say hate crime just in case.

    Then when you have a genuine hate crime, like the black mob attacking the white teen and telling him they were doing it for Trayvon, (I can't recall exactly where, but I believe it was somewhere in the Midwest like St. Louis) no hate crime charges were filed? There's a very huge double standard.
    So are you suggesting that our system of justice unfairly favors minorities? Specifically blacks?

    Besides, until leaving bacon somewhere becomes a crime, the only thing this guy is guilty of is being a dick. There was no crime committed, unless news reports are leaving out a whole lot.

    If the story holds up as nothing more than what's currently being reported, and they do find the guy.....he will certainly claim it was his right under the first amendment. Again, the guy is just a dick, not a criminal.
    What's being reported is that someone purposefully left something offensive to a religious minority with a note directing them to a website. Based on this the authorities think it might be a hate crime.

    Since we don't know what was in the note or on the website we can't really tell much of anything, so why are we upset at the cops again?
    Last edited by Henry; 08-22-12 at 10:54 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    So are you suggesting that our system of justice unfairly favors minorities? Specifically blacks?
    When it comes to deciding whether to process something as a hate crime or not, it absolutely does.

    Example: If a white guy shoots and kills a black guy, it is almost always processed as a hate crime. When the roles are reversed, I honestly cannot recall if I have ever heard of a case where somebody who was not white was charged with a hate crime.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    What's being reported is that someone purposefully left something offensive to a religious minority with a note directing them to a website. Based on this the authorities think it might be a hate crime.

    Since we don't know what was in the note or on the website we can't really tell much of anything, so why are we upset at the cops again?
    The point I'm trying to make, is what part of that is a crime? Is it a crime to offend someone by being an asshole? No. Is it a crime to leave a note telling someone to visit a certain website, even if the website is grossly offensive? No. Unless some drastic changes have been made in the laws very quietly, I can't see where a crime was committed based on what's being reported. The guy or girl responsible is guilty of nothing more than being an insensitive asshole with a horrible sense of humor. While very ignorant, it isn't a crime. So if it isn't a crime, by definition it can't possibly be a hate crime.
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    "Oh, the poor, oppressed white man! Its tough being a white male, ages 18-35!" -nobody
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    "Oh, the poor, oppressed white man! Its tough being a white male, ages 18-35!" -nobody
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    Cute. This statement has absolutely nothing to do with what we were talking about. We were specifically talking about whites only prosecution for hate crimes. It's a fact. No matter how much you want to act like it doesn't matter, it does.

    Now unless you have something showing otherwise, comments like this are meaningless.

    For the record, the fact you fail to see the irony in your statement makes it even more hilarious.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    trolling...in his 5.0 with the rag top down so his posts can flow...

    its obvious he doesnt believe that white people cant be hated on or opressed for their skin color. Probably best to just leave him be with his little quips and troll remarks that offer nothing.
    Love the Vanilla Ice reference, you don't see that every day

    But you're absolutely right. Perhaps it's because I've been a casualty of affirmative action on more than one occasion, or perhaps it's because I grew up in predominantly black neighborhoods my whole life and knew what it was like to always be the minority, but it's still comical how accurate the statement he meant as sarcasm actually is, other than the -nobody part.
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    Lanky, not saying this as a mod but just as a fellow masterdebater:

    You gotta stop walking into the china shop with your sledgehammer.

    Enjoy the thread fellas. Try not to get each other too worked up.
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