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  1. #1
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    Default Would The Redskins Be That Much Worse Off With..................

    Betts at RB, Smoot at CB, Golston at DT and Orakpo at DE?

    You look at the uneven performances so far of some of the 'key' players on this team and their injury status and wonder if the talent is all it is cracked up to be.

    Personally I don't think the team would suffer with these substitutions.

    Portis, Hall, Haynesworth and Andre Carter are part of that handful of the most highly paid players on the team that so far have been missing in action.

    Carter has been mostly a disappointment since coming over from SF, and letting Orakpo shift between LB and DE to keep Carter in the regular lineup may at this point be a mistake.

    With this team set to be a non-playoff club, why postpone Brian's development?

    Portis needs to rest plain and simple. He has no burst because of the bone spurs and is only hurting the team. Betts should get a chance to show what he can do since he is 100% and is featured in the same between the tackles game that is now Portis' as well.

    Golston? This one is strickly knee-jerk on my part. With Golston you have a guy that is 110% effort who has gained 20 pounds to better handle the battles inside in the NFL. He may not be as explosive on individual plays as Haynesworth, but he is in shape and doesn't need to be subbed in and out during the game to catch a breather.

    In the backfield things couldn't get much worse.

    Only Chris Horton has really played at a high level.

    Hall has been a disappointment. He has been beaten for a couple of touchdowns already and has been embarrassed trying to make tackles in the open field.

    If the club is going to go man on Rogers' side and roll a zone on the other side, I don't see why Smoot can't do that.

    His problem is the same as Hall's - downfield coverage on the outside.

    So, there among the Portis/Haynesworth/Hall/Carter group is a large chunk of the future financial commitments of the Redskins over the next 2-3 years.

    And I think a case can be made that other players on the team could fill these spots in steady if unspectacular fashion.

    That as much as anything else may be the secret of how the Redskins recover their franchise over time from falling completely into the abyss.

    Depend upon unheralded draft picks and hungry younger players and then add in the RIGHT anchor/core players like Ray Lewis or Brian Urlacher or Peyton Manning when you have a top 5 pick that become the true leaders the others can count on.

    You can't be a core player and not show up and play 110%.

    You can't be a core player and complain publicly about your teammates or coaches.

    You can't be a core player and allow punks on your team ruin the chemistry and walk around without being held accountable.
    Last edited by Bulldog's Twin; 09-28-09 at 09:15 PM.
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  2. #2

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    Flirting with 8 - 8 and spending to the cap with high priced free agents or 4 - 12 and plugging in a bunch of unproven players and draft picks doesn't make much of a difference.

    In fact, I'd argue that the 4 - 12 team committed to the rebuild process is much further along than the Redskins who constantly fool themselves into believing that the next free agent signing is the one to put the club over the top and compete for a championship.

    We've narrowly escaped going 0 - 5 in the last two seasons combined vs. the likes of the Rams, Lions, and Bengals.

    If that isn't a sign to tear down the house, I don't know what is. Also, if that isn't a sign that we arguably could have got the same results without all the free-agency fiascos, I don't know what is.

    As currently built, the Redskins have a ceiling for success. That ceiling is 8 - 8.

    However, as currently built, there is no bottom in terms of how bad it can get.

    I'm afraid that the story of the '09/'10 season is not how good it can get, but rather, how low can we go?

    The lower the better in my opinion.

    It might be the only way to rescue this team long-term.
    Last edited by Canadian Hog; 09-28-09 at 10:09 PM.
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    The Skins structured the contracts of Randle-El and Carter so that if there's no cap in 2010, they don't have to take their option on and keep them.

    My guess is that both probably will be gone. Randy Thomas is more than likely gone and probably Daniels, Wynn and Griffin.

    Hall at best looks like a nickle CB and maybe the Skins should do the right thing and cut him as well......he earned the contract, but isn't living up to it.

    I expect a good number of players to be gone after this year.
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    I can agree on two and disagree on two.

    Betts is not Portis even when Portis is not healthy and especially not behind this line. He just doesn't have the vision and the instinct for the hole. That is without mentioning the blocking and Betts is just sorry at that.

    I have not been disappointed with Haynesworth either. His name might not be showing up like some folks thought it would but you are seeing more production from Griffin and whoever is lined up to Al's right.

    I didn't want the team to sign Hall long term and I can't say I am surprised. As I have mentioned before, the guy maybe a great athlete but he is a lousy CB. Frankly, I think if you can't play press man as a CB you shouldn't be a CB. Period. Smoot couldn't be any worse but this really makes the decision to let go of Springs look suspect. Springs on injured on the sideline at least offers you the chance at solid CB play when he gets healthy.

    Carter has been a disappointment to me all along. He has flashes every now and then of good play but there is no consistency. I am hoping his numbers pick up running next to Haynesworth but I can't see that Carter is so good that he should be starting ahead of Orakpo on that right side.
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    While Haynesworth hasn't produced to the extent 100 million dollars probably demands, he's made those around him better. Other than that, I think some changes along the lines of those proposed by BD could/should be in order. This team needs a shakeup right now. If that's inserting Collins, Smoot, Rak or Betts then maybe it will send a wakeup call.

    I'm actually hoping 2010 is an uncapped year. It could be a blessing in disguise. We could dump salaries, older players and perhaps some malcontents. As much as I love CP's ability, he's probably one of the first guy's I'd cut. I'd also say goodbye to Carter, Daniels, Wynn, Griffin, Rabach, ARE and possibly Smoot and Hall, depending on their performance this year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jimbo View Post
    While Haynesworth hasn't produced to the extent 100 million dollars probably demands, he's made those around him better. Other than that, I think some changes along the lines of those proposed by BD could/should be in order. This team needs a shakeup right now. If that's inserting Collins, Smoot, Rak or Betts then maybe it will send a wakeup call.

    I'm actually hoping 2010 is an uncapped year. It could be a blessing in disguise. We could dump salaries, older players and perhaps some malcontents. As much as I love CP's ability, he's probably one of the first guy's I'd cut. I'd also say goodbye to Carter, Daniels, Wynn, Griffin, Rabach, ARE and possibly Smoot and Hall, depending on their performance this year.
    I agree in that if insert Collins, Smoot, or whoever that you may get the attention of many. My concern with Portis is not his declining ability. To me my problem with him is he seems to be head inmate running the assylum. He had Snyder's ear and whines to the media. Time for him to be quiet and lead by good example.

    This teams needs someone like Parcells. Someone in charge to take control and tell the players it is his way or highway. Snyder on the other hand needs to keep arms distance from players. He should spend the money give the coaches the tools they need. If he wants to play fantasy football then join a league online.
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    Michigan State

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Portis needs to rest plain and simple. He has no burst because of the bone spurs and is only hurting the team. Betts should get a chance to show what he can do since he is 100% and is featured in the same between the tackles game that is now Portis' as well.
    Portis needs a rest? He only had 11 carries in the entire preseason and is averaging just over 15 per game. If he can't hold up physically anymore then we need to replace him. I love his attitude and pass blocking when he's in, but he can't seem to break one anymore. They put Aldridge on the roster rather than trying to get an O-lineman so give him a chance and see if he can break one with his speed.
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    I think it is also rare for him to get a big hole. The offensive line can't seem to run block worth a damn. Perhaps someone with speed, such as Alridge, could find a way to make something out of nothing on occasion.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    Betts at RB, Smoot at CB, Golston at DT and Orakpo at DE?

    You look at the uneven performances so far of some of the 'key' players on this team and their injury status and wonder if the talent is all it is cracked up to be.

    Personally I don't think the team would suffer with these substitutions.

    Portis, Hall, Haynesworth and Andre Carter are part of that handful of the most highly paid players on the team that so far have been missing in action.

    Carter has been mostly a disappointment since coming over from SF, and letting Orakpo shift between LB and DE to keep Carter in the regular lineup may at this point be a mistake.

    With this team set to be a non-playoff club, why postpone Brian's development?

    ...You can't be a core player and not show up and play 110%.

    You can't be a core player and complain publicly about your teammates or coaches.

    You can't be a core player and allow punks on your team ruin the chemistry and walk around without being held accountable.
    I hate to toot my own horn but, tooooot!

    This is a case where I think we may actually be hurting ourselves. From what I've seen so far, Orakpo has provided a lot more pressure on the QB than Carter. Carter is IMHO at best a serviceable backup DE, that is to say, exactly the kind of guy we've looked at to be a starter at DE since Gibbs 1.0.

    However, I will say that I'm a bit conflicted about this issue. Having Orakpo play LB for a season might end up being a good thing in the long run. If he gets proficient at LB duties, it might allow us to get creative by dropping him into coverage on blitzes and the like from time to time. Other teams have done this with their DEs with pretty good success. Any extra wrinkles we could add to make things more difficult for opposing OCs/QBs to figure out would have to help.

    Either way, I agree with your main point DoppelDog (hey, I kinda like that ). At this point if the highly paid guys are going to sleepwalk through the season, we might as well let the scrubs and young guys get some experience and some film on file in preparation for blowing things up next offseason.


    Quote Originally Posted by Walking Deadman View Post
    The Skins structured the contracts of Randle-El and Carter so that if there's no cap in 2010, they don't have to take their option on and keep them.

    My guess is that both probably will be gone. Randy Thomas is more than likely gone and probably Daniels, Wynn and Griffin.

    Hall at best looks like a nickle CB and maybe the Skins should do the right thing and cut him as well......he earned the contract, but isn't living up to it.

    I expect a good number of players to be gone after this year.
    My short list of guys to get rid of after this season:
    (In no particular order)
    Thomas-Stick a fork in him. Nuff said.
    Wynn-See Thomas.
    Landry-Might be able to get a late first rounder for him that could be used to help re-build our OL.
    Montgomery-I like Monty but we're a bit stacked at DT at the moment and we might be able to get a decent mid-round pick for him....say a third or fourth. I think the Jags have been absolutely decimated at DT. Even so, I'd have to see the depth chart to be sure since I've also advocated getting rid of Daniels and Wynn.:fingersx:
    D. Hall-I had a bad feeling that he was just pretending for a few games last season in order to get another contract. Looks like I was right. He can't cover, tackle or avoid penalties. Other than that, he's a great DB. :doh:
    Betts-Betts is a serviceable back. However, he doesn't have the speed to compliment CPo, still doesn't block very well, and is dinged up too much. He's another guy we might be able to get a late round pick for, say a 5th maybe?
    Daniels-It's time for Father Time to hit the bricks. He's nothing more than a serviceable DT at this point.
    Jason Campbell-I've counseled patience with him but I think it's readily apparent at this point that he's probably hit his ceiling. Another career backup. Too bad we can't get anything for him and even worse for us, there doesn't seem to be a lot of QB talent in the college pipeline this year. Even worse, it's too bad that Brennan is on IR and Daniels has been promoted to the Saints' active roster.

    Bubble Players
    S. Moss-He's still productive but getting up in years. Right now still the only proven receiver on the roster so it would probably be best to keep him.
    CPo-Still has some gas left in the tank and more importantly, too expensive to release. IMHO he can still be productive for several more years if he had half of an OL in front of him.
    Cartwright-Not fast enough and with a bit of an exception this year, is a guy you can count on to keep his mouth shut and get his job done. In spite of lack of speed, very effective at getting field position on KO returns.
    C. Griff-I don't think he can get anywhere near playing a full season anymore but he's still pretty effective playing next to Fat Albert. OTOH, he is getting up there and has never been the most durable player. I could easily be convinced to let him go and keep Monty instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    Perhaps...Alridge, could find a way to make something out of nothing on occasion.
    ...a fumble? No thanks.

    The only good news I can scrape up from this mess is that if we're incredibly lucky Snyderatto finally realizes it just ain't gonna happen the way things are currently structured and blows things up both in the F.O. and on the field.
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    You and I agree that CP can't do it without a line in front of him. He doesn't have one. They elected to put Alridge back on the team instead of trying to shore up the line. Why put Alridge back on the team if you're not going to use him? At least he could potentially outrun someone when running for his life from defenders. CP can't. Until or unless they fix the line, CP is useless.
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    I agree on Golston and Orakpo, and would concede that given the way this line is run blocking these days, Betts would be just as productive as Portis would be.

    However, Smoot as a CB is a but ludicrous. He's been a big reason why we're last in the league in 3rd down defense. He was responsible for Manningham's TD in week 1 (he makes an open field tackle they kick a FG), the 3rd and 13 Stafford scramble (had an open shot to light the kid up and at the very worst force a field goal, instead another arm tackle whiff gives them a 1st), and he's been historically soft in coverage. I would be horrified if he was anything other than a nickel or a safety. He's too much of a liability in run support and lacks the burst to keep up with the #1's of this league.
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    the big problem is that Jim Zorn hit his ceiling a year ago at 6-2.

    this movie only continues to get worse. like Spurrier he is deaf, dumb and blind and the players have tuned him out.

    his philosophy has worn thin on everyone outside of the commune he belongs to.

    sometimes I think he should be wearing a Greek toga and reading from Plato.
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    Don't mince words man, Say what you mean
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    Eh. Things may look bleak but I'm always of the belief that you play the best players you got. That's not Smoot, Betts or Golston.

    Panicking isn't going to solve anything. If sweeping changes need to be made, make them in the offseason. This is our team, for better or for worse.
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    It wasn't with a thought to cutting the 'star' players and playing all the backups I wrote this.

    It was more a thought that with a coherent system, especially on offense, and greater accountability from a group of hungry ballplayers that the 'whole' over time might just be more valuable than individual parts that are shinier and carry a pedigree.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulldog's Twin View Post
    It wasn't with a thought to cutting the 'star' players and playing all the backups I wrote this.
    I don't know BD, that's pretty much exactly what this second graph sounds like.

    It was more a thought that with a coherent system, especially on offense, and greater accountability from a group of hungry ballplayers that the 'whole' over time might just be more valuable than individual parts that are shinier and carry a pedigree.
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    The thing is Henry, we don't really have any star players. Perhaps Haynesworth was before he arrived here. How many pro bowl players do we have? How many league leaders? There are probably only a handful of players I would miss if they left. If we're losing and playing this badly with them, we can't do any worse without them.
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    The thing is, Betts is playing like crap too. So is Smoot.

    This isn't a player problem. It's a team problem. Replacing underachieving starters with underachieving backups isn't going to solve anything. I mean, we're trying to solve something, right? Not just make ourselves feel better by benching people ...

    The one move I would agree with is to put Orakpo in at DE for all downs. I think the decision to move him to LB was a mistake.

    But 'What the hell, let's try this' three games into the season is a panic move. In my opinion.
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    If players are not performing try somebody else (assuming there is somebody else) to let players know that they will be held accountable for their play, or they will be benched (Betts and Portis are not the only RBs available). Although you have a fair point. It is too soon to panic and do something rash, however at what point do we say this isn't working, let's see what this other player can do?

    And why, if they're trying to fix problems, bring in another running back (Aldridge) instead of addressing the problem (the offensive line)?
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    Quote Originally Posted by China View Post
    And why, if they're trying to fix problems, bring in another running back (Aldridge) instead of addressing the problem (the offensive line)?
    Excellent question.
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