A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1

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    Default I demands to see Romney's tax records because

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    Florida Atlantic

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    I find it hilarious that in the same article that this guy is going on a "gut feeling" about a scandal at Columbia (read: he is making it up), he bashes Harry Reid for making things up about Romney's tax returns. LMAO. More blatant right-wing hypocrisy!
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    George Mason

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    *sigh*

    I guess it's become that time of the election season. Something we should really be proud of as Americans
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    *sigh*

    I guess it's become that time of the election season. Something we should really be proud of as Americans
    Yeah, I have a feeling this is going to be mud-sling-iest campaign season in the history of mud-slinging. Its going to get dirty, and has already soured me to both candidates.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Yeah, I have a feeling this is going to be mud-sling-iest campaign season in the history of mud-slinging. Its going to get dirty, and has already soured me to both candidates.
    Yes. To be clear, the Obama camp and supporters are doing the exact same thing to Romney and I think it's equally as disgusting. I think the calls for Romney to release more of his tax records are ridiculous.

    Just to get that out of the way, before the usual three-ring circus comes in and starts accusing me of blindly supporting Obama (even though I clearly don't).
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    Florida State

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    Just answer the question posed...why won't Obama release the school records? It's a fairly logical political move by Romney to call Obama out like that. Every time Axelrod was asked about the school records on Sunday, he threw it right back on Romney releasing his taxes.

    And Lanky, he gave a fairly good explanation why he had that gut feeling...he went to Columbia the same time with the same major yet he can' remember the man, nor can any of his classmates. This goes a little further than Reid saying he knows without any basis for his assertion.

    Edit: And yes, it's mudslinging but if Romney wants to win dirt has to be slung and a lot of it!
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    Just answer the question posed...why won't Obama release the school records? It's a fairly logical political move by Romney to call Obama out like that. Every time Axelrod was asked about the school records on Sunday, he threw it right back on Romney releasing his taxes.
    Well I have not been clamoring for Romney to release his tax records either, likening it to the birthers clamoring for Obama to release his BC. Maybe Obama got a C in foreign affairs, which is why he won't release the records! Who knows. I don't really care.

    And Lanky, he gave a fairly good explanation why he had that gut feeling...he went to Columbia the same time with the same major yet he can' remember the man, nor can any of his classmates. This goes a little further than Reid saying he knows without any basis for his assertion.
    There are currently around 27,000 students at Columbia - I'm not sure what the population was in 1983, but I'm sure it was over 10,000. My school had around 20K students when I was there, and I bet you could find over 19K of them who never even heard of me (let alone a whole 400!). Does that mean I never got my degree also?

    Edit: And yes, it's mudslinging but if Romney wants to win dirt has to be slung and a lot of it!
    Very sad that this is the state of American politics.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Also, he says "none of the classmates I knew" ever heard of him. The dude could have been a total tool and hung out with the same 5 people throughout college. Even if he was super popular, how many does he keep up with today? I had some good friends in college I hung out with on a regular basis, probably a group of about 20 different people, most of whom I lost contact with after graduation. I'm sure most people have a similar story.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Also, I know most dismiss the Fact Check websites as more Liberal propaganda, but here is an excerpt from FactCheck.org's response:

    Last year, the New York Times wrote about Phil Boerner, who roomed with the future president during his first year at Columbia. The article included excerpts from the Columbia student directory, showing Obama living during his junior year at 142 West 109th Street near Columbia’s campus in New York City, and during his senior year at 339 East 94th Street. Boerner recalled that Obama sometimes wrapped himself in a sleeping bag to keep warm in the chilly apartment they shared, and that some nights he would cook chicken curry for dinner.

    In an article published in Columbia College Today, Boerner also wrote:

    Boerner: I remember often eating breakfast with Barack at Tom’s Restaurant on Broadway. Occasionally we went to The West End for beers. We enjoyed exploring museums such as the Guggenheim, the Met and the American Museum of Natural History, and browsing in bookstores such as the Strand and the Barnes & Noble opposite Columbia. We both liked taking long walks down Broadway on a Sunday afternoon, and listening to the silence of Central Park after a big snow. I also remember jogging the loop around Central Park with Barack.
    Obama even published an article in a school magazine called the Sundial. A reporter for the conservative Human Events magazine recently called it "a wholesale endorsement of all sorts of leftist claptrap fashionable at the time." The full article is available on the Web site of Politico.com. It was published in the issue dated March 10, 1983.

    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/02/oba...ia-university/
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  10. #10

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    George Mason

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    I've gone to 2 less than prestigous universities (currently at George Mason University) and a community college.

    There's a lot of people I didn't know at all 3. I was pretty popular at CNU when I was there when I was 18/19 (which is why I didn't finish up there ) and there's a lot of people I didn't know there.

    I don't think not knowing someone who went to the university at the same time as you is grounds for suspecting that the person didn't attend and/or graduate from the school. But, it's also possible that things are much different at the Ivy league schools - I don't have any real experience with them or the people who attend(ed) them. Maybe someone here attended a school like these and can speak to it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    And yes, it's mudslinging but if Romney wants to win dirt has to be slung and a lot of it!
    I find it sad that it is so easily justified
    If a candidate that was actually worth a **** decided to run, and decided to actually run on the issues, he'd be completely demolished because the general (voting*) public loves the mudslinging despite claiming they despise it. So incredibly sad to me
    Last edited by tshile; 08-07-12 at 10:21 AM.
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  11. #11
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    I never believed for a minute that Obama didn't attend the schools he claimed. I also don't believe for a minute that he performed poorly. Sure, I think his politics and views of the world are way off, but he's not an idiot.

    What I think, and what I have always thought about why he won't release his school records, is because I believe he received grants/scholarships/etc. as a foreign student. It's the only logical reason why he will not release his records.

    Don't get me wrong, I have never been on the birther bandwagon. I have no opinion one way or another about his place of birth, because I honestly don't know. All I know, is people on both sides would be willing to do whatever dirty or illegal act it took to make themselves look good while vilifying the other guy.

    Now, as far as receiving foreign aid goes, there are two reasons that could be a big deal.....

    1. Maybe he really was born in a foreign country, and reaped the rewards of being a foreign student.

    2. Maybe he really was born in Hawaii, but knew that because of his dad' heritage, he could con the system and appear to be a foreign student to receive financial assistance to attend some of the top schools in the country.

    Since the second one would be fraud, it's obvious why he would want to keep his records sealed. Option 1 needs no explanation.

    Then there could be a third option that neither of these are true. I don't know, none of you knows. Obama knows, and he has spent plenty of money and lawyers tying it up to protect or hide something.
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  12. #12

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    George Mason

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    That seems like a sane and logic position to hold on the issue Extreme. There's nothing for me to argue with you on that one

    It's pretty much how I feel except that I don't care about looking into the issue any more than I care about looking into Romney's taxes over the last 20 years. One could certainly make the argument that I should care and I'm not saying that would be a dumb or bad argument it may actually be the absolutely correct argument, but none the less I don't care.

    Probably because, historically, these things are dragged out of context so bad it's unbearable to try to follow it, things are so blown out of proportion, and hypocrisy runs rampant among issues like this that it is hard for me to find either side (or their supporters) to be genuine or honest when they discuss it.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    None of my college transcripts made any mention of where the funding for the grades came from, and I'm assuming neither do Barry's. So, that's not the reason he won't release transcripts.

    Its certainly possible that he got assistance as a foreign student, thereby committing fraud, and it certainly makes it all the more shady when he doesn't release the records. Or, he could just be saying its none of anyone's business what grades he got. We don't know. My major problem with the article is that its fighting speculation with speculation, which is blatant hypocrisy.

    I worked in the office of student employment as a work-study for 2 years; I do know that if he was a foreigner and had any kind of employment on campus, there is a **** ton of paperwork somewhere, as I had to help countless students fill it out. And all of that should be on file with the university.
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    Florida State

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    I've gone to 2 less than prestigous universities (currently at George Mason University) and a community college.

    There's a lot of people I didn't know at all 3.
    OK, first off we are talking about the same discipline. I know when I was in college at Florida State, a very populated university, I knew a large portion of students in my discipline since we took many classes together. And I was only there for 15 months. Imagine 4 years together in the same discipline, are you telling me you wouldn't be able to recognize someone you went to college with if they were running for President? At least a handful would.


    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    I find it sad that it is so easily justified
    I really don't know why people get all bent out of shape because of mudslinging in politics. It's politics. It's an ugly game and always has been. Go back and look at some of the more contentious Presidential races throughout the country's history and you will see this is not out of the ordinary. Quit expecting more from the candidates in this respect. It's never gonna go away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Well I have not been clamoring for Romney to release his tax records either, likening it to the birthers clamoring for Obama to release his BC. Maybe Obama got a C in foreign affairs, which is why he won't release the records! Who knows. I don't really care.
    I wish Romney had come out with them 3 months ago, we wouldn't be here now. But if you knew that Obama cheated all those years ago to get into college, would you still vote for him? How many people would? Would he have ever been elected to the Senate? Probably not. Much like his presidency, his life seems to be full of secrets...so much for transparency.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I worked in the office of student employment as a work-study for 2 years; I do know that if he was a foreigner and had any kind of employment on campus, there is a **** ton of paperwork somewhere, as I had to help countless students fill it out. And all of that should be on file with the university.
    You can't apply today's amount of paper work to the records they kept back then. Not saying there isn't a paper trail at all, but it would be a lot easier to hide school records. And we are talking about school records, not just transcripts.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I find it hilarious that in the same article that this guy is going on a "gut feeling" about a scandal at Columbia (read: he is making it up), he bashes Harry Reid for making things up about Romney's tax returns. LMAO. More blatant right-wing hypocrisy!

    ummm...you obviously didn't follow the logic of the post. the author posted these ruminations precisely because of the efforts being coordinated by reid and others (take 3 guesses....first two don't count Lanky) to impugn Romney.

    think of it as tit for tat.

    unlike you...very obviously....there are those among us who are intersted in this little piece of Obama history...especially since some memories of his past have turned out to be multiple stories conflated into hypothetical people and events.
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    fs, I get harangued daily for the links I use in my posts - and then you turn around and post this? Come on now...this is not rocket surgery.

    And I followed the train of thought completely (I cringe to call this logic) - Reid made something up so this guy is making something up in response. Its blatant hypocrisy.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    OK, first off we are talking about the same discipline. I know when I was in college at Florida State, a very populated university, I knew a large portion of students in my discipline since we took many classes together. And I was only there for 15 months. Imagine 4 years together in the same discipline, are you telling me you wouldn't be able to recognize someone you went to college with if they were running for President? At least a handful would.
    I would be able to recognize some, and not others. It would depend. There are quite a few people I recognize in my discipline at GMU, and a handful I actually know.

    Part of the problem for me is that I like to party and I'm in a CS major. You don't see very many CS majors at parties Most them are busy playing video games on a friday/saturday night. So no, I'm not exactly friends with many people in my discipline, but i recognize how I could be the exception rather than the rule

    But if someone walked up to me and said they graduated in 2012 from GMU (when I'm graduating) with a BS in CS (the degree I'm getting) I wouldn't write them off simply because I didn't recognize them. It's a big school that offers many classes...

    Quote Originally Posted by Elephant View Post
    I really don't know why people get all bent out of shape because of mudslinging in politics. It's politics. It's an ugly game and always has been. Go back and look at some of the more contentious Presidential races throughout the country's history and you will see this is not out of the ordinary. Quit expecting more from the candidates in this respect. It's never gonna go away.
    I'm not bent out of shape, i understand its politics and i'm aware of the history behind it. And unfortunately my expectations are set very low in this regard.

    That doesn't change my observation, and (unlike some) i don't use that as an excuse to partake in it. Mudslinging results in a gross distortion of facts, outright lies, and at the end of the day an uninformed/misinformed public. The same public that are going into the voting booth in November. To me that's disappointing to say the least.

    In addition to all that your explanation fits nicely with the is-ought problem. So, yeah, there's a reason to not think it's OK.

    Edit:
    El, that wasn't specifically directed at you but the mentality in general. It seems to be one that majority of the people have. Just ranting is all
    Last edited by tshile; 08-07-12 at 02:28 PM.
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    I think the author was being facetious to make a point. (And it's a fair point. Personally I don't care about tax records or college transcripts. That's early round election fodder that won't really matter when the dust settles. But if you do care, it's a fair point.)

    If he was being serious, he's a bit of an idiot, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    fs, I get harangued daily for the links I use in my posts - and then you turn around and post this? Come on now...this is not rocket surgery.

    And I followed the train of thought completely (I cringe to call this logic) - Reid made something up so this guy is making something up in response. Its blatant hypocrisy.

    1) it's not hypocrisy. think of it as Stewart-like sarcasm...cause that's exactly what it is....

    2) you should feel honored that I have elected to follow the spirit of your links!
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    Its not hypocrisy only if, like Henry, you give the author the benefit of the doubt. I don't.
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