A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1
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    Florida State

    Default George Zimmerman

    I've been thinking about this a lot lately and am putting it out there for discussion.

    Let me start out by saying I was sympathetic to George Zimmerman because the idiots like Jesse Jackson, Sharpton and Spike Lee's of the world were trying to get some exposure for themselves, not justice for Trayvon Martin.

    Now, after months of seeing the case develop, I am thinking both parties bear responsibility for the unfortunate situation and I am beginning to think the State's Attorney is no better than Sharpton and crew with her desire for exposure! And here's why:

    What strikes me most is the FL law that will not permit 2nd Degree Murder be a primary charge allowing the jury to give manslaughter if the 2nd degree murder is not proven. I am not sure what other states do, but in Colorado for example, the killer is being charged with 2 different murder charges for each death. Someone with better knowledge can correct me if I am wrong, but here in MD you can charge with one crime and the jury can find a second lesser charge is more warranted, i.e. 2nd degree murder can be found to be manslaughter instead.

    So, I think this is going to turn out to be a huge cluster**** just like the Casey Anthony trial because the defendant was charged with the wrong crime. The State's attorney charged Zimmerman with the greater crime, which he will likely be found not guilty of and she'll end up looking stupid. I think the idiot should at least be sent to jail for manslaughter now that I have seen more facts in the case.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    James Madison

    Default

    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I do watch a lot of Boston Legal reruns; therefore I feel overly qualified to answer this. I believe you are correct, they can only rule on what is charged. The DA probably feels that it is a slam dunk case, and she doesn't want the jury feeling sorry for the defendant and finding him guilty for a lesser charge. That makes the decision harder for the jury, but also potentially leads to the possibility of them finding him innocent completely, because they don't feel the punishment for the heavier charge would be warranted.
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  3. #3
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    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I do watch a lot of Boston Legal reruns; therefore I feel overly qualified to answer this. I believe you are correct, they can only rule on what is charged. The DA probably feels that it is a slam dunk case, and she doesn't want the jury feeling sorry for the defendant and finding him guilty for a lesser charge. That makes the decision harder for the jury, but also potentially leads to the possibility of them finding him innocent completely, because they don't feel the punishment for the heavier charge would be warranted.

    I know they only charge for one crime in FL Goal, but I think the decision by this prosecutor is nothing more than grand standing to shoot for a charge they have little chance to convict on for her own ambitions, just the same as Sharpton and the other media whores convicted Zimmerman from day 1.

    Now that I am seeing more of the case, it looks like Zimmerman should do some time for this, just not Murder 2 time. So this prosecutor should be fired when this case fails the same way the Casey Anthony case failed. The State of Florida cannot afford another blunder like the Anthony case. Pamela Bondi should have stepped in and said they would seek the manslaughter charge instead.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

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    Default

    El...ambition or succumbing to political pressures?
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Well, I'm not a lawyer, but I do watch a lot of Boston Legal reruns; therefore I feel overly qualified to answer this. I believe you are correct, they can only rule on what is charged. The DA probably feels that it is a slam dunk case, and she doesn't want the jury feeling sorry for the defendant and finding him guilty for a lesser charge. That makes the decision harder for the jury, but also potentially leads to the possibility of them finding him innocent completely, because they don't feel the punishment for the heavier charge would be warranted.
    I watch a lot of Law and Order reruns and I concur.

    Ive avoided paying attention to this case because I too am finding it highly politicized and extremely sensationalized and I hate contributing to this less than noble aspect of our culture. Show trials are nothing more than Reality TV, which I absolutley detest.

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    Florida State

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    El...ambition or succumbing to political pressures?

    In this case? Ambition...


    If I am correct in thinking, you may be inferring that Holder or someone at the US Department of Justice may have pushed for something here? But Pamela Bondi would not let Holder come into FL to apply justice in a case like this without a fight. She's got aspirations of her own.

    After what happened with the Casey Anthony trial, overzealous prosecutor trying to go for the maximum and failing, Pamela Bondi can ill afford to have her office look inept in another high profile case. Not sure if this prosecutor consulted Bondi, and I don't think she necessarily needed to, but I would have thought Bondi would have consulted the DA in this case to ensure there would be no possibility for any egg on their face.

    Also, I saw the press conference with this DA... she seemed to revel in the spot light.
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    The more things change...the more they stay the same. It's like deja vu all over again.

  7. #7

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    George Mason

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    Holy crap can a case become anymore ridiculous than this?

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimm...6#.Ucx5bPnFVmw

    Basically the star witness that was on the phone with Martin when the shooting took place claimed to have written a letter to Martin's mother about what she heard over the phone.

    The letter is written in cursive.

    When asked to read the letter in court while on the stand, she said she can't read cursive.

    I have zero sympathy for Zimmerman in this case and in no way agree with what he did. I've been taught a certain way of deciding to use self defense and what it means, and in every way he violated that.

    But when you add this to other testimony about statements being coerced or altered, to the DA's overzealous speeches and clear attempt at making a name for herself, I just shake my head. Then add in the defense lawyer's attempt at a ****ing joke to open...

    This is a complete mockery of the legal system and any possible 'justice.' This case could have been text book writing in self defense and set precedence and really cleared the air on what is otherwise a murky subject at best. Instead it's a ****ing clown show.
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  8. #8

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    Default

    A clown show, soon to be followed by rioting, and looting, if the wuss walks.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

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    Florida Atlantic

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    I mean, the idiot defense attorney opened up with a knock-knock joke; this trial is already in the crapper.
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    Default

    Ladies and gentlemen, the Florida legal system!

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    victrix causa deis placuit sed victa Catoni.

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    George Mason

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    I should mention that girl apparently introduced completely new information her testimony today.

    what a joke.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    I loved how she said she heard "several shots" yet there was only one fired.

    THATS reliability right there.
    Normally I would say the judge should be throwing out the testimony after all of this nonsense.

    But this Florida. Apparently clown shows are the standard.
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    Towson

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    What major, televised trial these days doesn't make a mockery of our system? This is one of the primary reasons I'm against cameras in the court room.

    Not impressed by what I've seen from either side thus far. A Knock Knock joke in the defense's opening...WTH? By the way the prosecution's "star" witness acted on the stand they clearly didn't prep her to behave like a civilized human being in public, unbelievable.

    I feel terribly for Trayvon's family having to sit through this, I don't know how they can handle it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    A clown show, soon to be followed by rioting, and looting, if the wuss walks.
    The only think I'd change here is the word "if." "When" this wuss walks, there will be civil unrest. Thank you media.
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    Default

    I'm just getting tired of people saying he's guilty, simply based on the fact that he "pursued" him, when he should not have "pursued".
    NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED when he pursued him.
    And that is NOT JUSTIFICATION for a guilty verdict.

    The fact that he pursued is irrelevant. What's relevant is what happened from the time the 2 came face to face.
    What if Zim calmly approached him, and the kid freaked out ? That changes everything.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fear The Spear View Post
    I'm just getting tired of people saying he's guilty, simply based on the fact that he "pursued" him, when he should not have "pursued".
    NO CRIME WAS COMMITTED when he pursued him.
    And that is NOT JUSTIFICATION for a guilty verdict.

    The fact that he pursued is irrelevant. What's relevant is what happened from the time the 2 came face to face.
    What if Zim calmly approached him, and the kid freaked out ? That changes everything.
    I respectfully disagree. I think context is important. Self defense is a strong claim for a defendant to prove (yes, when you claim self defense the burdon of proof is on you) and in my opinion you can't take an entire situation and carve it down that way.

    To me this whole case revolves around the question of instigation and escalation. Did Zimmerman instigate and/or escalate the situation?

    I'm not claiming he did, I don't know. I think this would have been a great case to find out how well self defense holds up when the person claiming it voluntarily removed himself from a safe situation and put himself into a dangerous situation that resulted in someone losing their life.

    That's why his pursuit is important to people like me. It's just a shame this is a clown show, it could have been a very, very interesting case in self defense. Which is something I'm really interested in.
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    I respectfully disagree. I think context is important. Self defense is a strong claim for a defendant to prove (yes, when you claim self defense the burdon of proof is on you) and in my opinion you can't take an entire situation and carve it down that way.

    To me this whole case revolves around the question of instigation and escalation. Did Zimmerman instigate and/or escalate the situation?

    I'm not claiming he did, I don't know. I think this would have been a great case to find out how well self defense holds up when the person claiming it voluntarily removed himself from a safe situation and put himself into a dangerous situation that resulted in someone losing their life.

    That's why his pursuit is important to people like me. It's just a shame this is a clown show, it could have been a very, very interesting case in self defense. Which is something I'm really interested in.

    hmmm....putting oneself in a dangerous situation? or premeditation? what are you really focused on?
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    Florida State

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    Welcome to Florida. What an embarrassment.

    We can't vote, we couldn't convict Casey Anthony, our teachers love to sleep with students and this will undoubtedly bring us to new lows.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    hmmm....putting oneself in a dangerous situation? or premeditation? what are you really focused on?
    I don't buy the idea that it was premeditated. I don't know Zimmerman, but it just doesn't seem like he was out to cause problems, I just think he made some really dumb decisions.

    His comment about 'they always get away' is a little troubling, but it's not enough to put the guy away for murder in my opinion.

    You can have responsibility in a crime without intending to. I think manslaughter is the appropriate charge to bring to a jury (notice I said bring to a jury, I'm not so sure he's guilty of it) not murder.

    What am I focused on? I'm focused on gaining a better understanding of when it's right to take another person's life and when it's not. You never know when you'll find yourself in that situation, if it was something you could predict I'd like to think most people would avoid it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    I cant see any way hes found guilty.
    I can see lots of ways - fear and intimidation on the jury's part that their lives may be in danger for a certain verdict, simple bias on their part like so much of the rest of society, and the precedent of the Casey Anthony trial that no verdict is predictable.
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    The irony is that regardless of the verdict, Zimmerman will be imprisoned for a long time. Because even if he is acquitted, he will have to imprison himself into hiding for a very long time, to avoid the threats.
    He himself is almost better off, if he's found guilty and serves something like 7-10 years. Because once he serves his time, I imagine he'd be safer at that point in society, than if he had not served any time.
    Then again, he could be very un-safe in prison and face some serious conflict from other prisoners.
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