A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1
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    Default How Obama Has Stealthily Dismantled America's Immigration Enforcement Laws

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/...orcement-laws/

    I guess now we know why he has a record high deportation total. Stat padder
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    James Madison

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    I'll look into this sometime today. After the "You didn't build that" ridiculousness that FOX blatantly lied about, they have about as much credibility with me as a hooker extolling the virtues of chastity.
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    Not sure when this country last dealt well with immigration. Ceratainly wasn't Bush or Clinton.

    That said, the deportation numbers always stand out to me. Seems his agency has been more active. Also, if you believe the government assessments, reports have recently been indicating that the flow of immigrants to the U.S. illegally have slowed considerably (mind you, that's been attributed to the slowing economy and bad job situation and not any government related actions). So, it's pretty difficult figuring out how to grade this President on Immigration.

    I still remember President Bush arguing that we needed the illegals because they will do work Americans won't and the economy would collapse without them. Thought that was a very strange position for the Executive office to take.
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    Not sure when this country last dealt well with immigration. Ceratainly wasn't Bush or Clinton.

    That said, the deportation numbers always stand out to me. Seems his agency has been more active. Also, if you believe the government assessments, reports have recently been indicating that the flow of immigrants to the U.S. illegally have slowed considerably (mind you, that's been attributed to the slowing economy and bad job situation and not any government related actions). So, it's pretty difficult figuring out how to grade this President on Immigration.

    I still remember President Bush arguing that we needed the illegals because they will do work Americans won't and the economy would collapse without them. Thought that was a very strange position for the Executive office to take.

    hmm...that must explain why AZ & TX are so enchanted with Federal enforcement...and it must also explain the moves that are being made behind the scenes as referenced in a previous post.
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    and the $11 billion reshuffled by illegals to non-existant Latin American relatives last year through fraudulent dependent claims? yup......policy is certainly is in play!
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Fox News...what can I say other than hilarious?

    Out with the Old -- Gut What Works
    Interesting...I had no idea that all 20M illegal aliens came over the border on January 22nd, 2009. I mean, if the old system "worked," then we didn't have any illegal aliens here, right? Right?

    Both the 287(g) and the Secure Communities agreements were rewritten to emphasize that only criminal aliens would be processed. A “don’t-ask, don’t-tell” policy took effect for all other illegal aliens.
    Right, I forgot the other system was "working" so incredibly well, that Obama focusing on CRIMINALS who are in this country illegally was so terrible. I mean, we had zero illegal aliens before Obama took office! So its his fault the criminals were even here! Why isn't he hiring 1 billion border patrol officers to stand every 10 feet on the boarder with AR-15s?

    In with the New -- Rewrite the Rules
    In 2011, Obama’s Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) Director, John Morton, issued a series of internal directives instructing agency staff to focus their efforts exclusively on removing illegal aliens with criminal records. The administration would exercise “prosecutorial discretion” for all others. The new priorities – still in place – imply that immigration violations, in and of themselves, are inconsequential.
    I guess they ran out of criticisms, because now they're just repeating themselves. Stupid Obama! Letting all 20M illegals in at once!

    States that enacted their own bills requiring local police to identify illegal aliens and turn them over to federal custody, felt the blows one after the other. The DOJ sued Arizona, South Carolina, and Utah.
    Never mind that these policies were at their heart profiling, and discriminated against the millions of aliens here legally. Never mind that, we'll just ignore it and say OBAMA HATEZ THE STATEZ, OMG!!!!!11!!!

    In official documents, DHS stated that only 44% of the border was under operational control. And while deportations had, in fact risen slightly, the increase had nothing to do with expanding enforcement by the Obama administration. A “pipeline” of deportable cases was filled by vigorous enforcement during the last two years of the Bush administration. Those cases carried forward and Obama took credit in his first two years. Moreover, while deportations for violent criminal aliens had risen, all other deportations were down indicating that the Obama administration felt it could pick and choose which laws to enforce.
    So...they're prosecuting the cases that were lined up. Ummm...what's the issue here? Are you mad because Bush didn't prosecute them fast enough? I don't get it. Do you think Bush wants a thank you? Thanks, Dubya, for all the illegals ready to prosecute.

    And it still boggles my mind, and shows how incredibly partisan the country has become, that people could find fault in the number of VIOLENT CRIMINAL DEPORTATIONS going UP. RISING. As in, FEWER VIOLENT CRIMINALS IN THE US. Talk about missing the forest to yell at a few trees....



    I can't even continue with the article. Its nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Fox News...what can I say other than hilarious?

    said the man who quotes Ezra Klein!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Interesting...I had no idea that all 20M illegal aliens came over the border on January 22nd, 2009. I mean, if the old system "worked," then we didn't have any illegal aliens here, right? Right?
    The part you quoted was specifically speaking of work enforcement programs concerning illegals. You're reference to the 20 million illegals isn't even the same topic being discussed. Not sure what the relevance is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Right, I forgot the other system was "working" so incredibly well, that Obama focusing on CRIMINALS who are in this country illegally was so terrible.
    There's a reason the administration and Justice Department are fighting Arizona, Texas and Alabama so hard. If they were really concerned with focusing on criminals that were here illegally, they would be applauding these state mandates, not trying to stop them. They told Arizona that they can't even ask a non English speaking Latino arestee that just killed somebody if he is here legally or not. Obama focusing on criminals who are here illegally? Hardly. More like turning his head to most everything that wasn't already in the pipe when he took the oath.

    Additionally, a fact that seems lost on Obama and his supporters, based on comments being made on the matter, is that the act of being an illegal immigrant is itself a criminal act. Why do these criminals get a free pass to walk around committing that crime, and not being pursued until they commit an additional crime? Why don't we let armed robbers walk around until they commit a murder?
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    exactly Ex....and what message does that send to the rest of us?
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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    exactly Ex....and what message does that send to the rest of us?
    I know what message it sends to me - If illegal no longer means illegal, then I'm gonna have a pretty sweet weekend.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    The part you quoted was specifically speaking of work enforcement programs concerning illegals. You're reference to the 20 million illegals isn't even the same topic being discussed. Not sure what the relevance is.
    Uh...is this a serious quote? The number of illegals in the US is not relevant to illegal aliens in the workforce? Um...okay...

    There's a reason the administration and Justice Department are fighting Arizona, Texas and Alabama so hard. If they were really concerned with focusing on criminals that were here illegally, they would be applauding these state mandates, not trying to stop them. They told Arizona that they can't even ask a non English speaking Latino arestee that just killed somebody if he is here legally or not. Obama focusing on criminals who are here illegally? Hardly. More like turning his head to most everything that wasn't already in the pipe when he took the oath.
    Addressed this in my post. Read the whole thing next time please.

    Additionally, a fact that seems lost on Obama and his supporters, based on comments being made on the matter, is that the act of being an illegal immigrant is itself a criminal act. Why do these criminals get a free pass to walk around committing that crime, and not being pursued until they commit an additional crime? Why don't we let armed robbers walk around until they commit a murder?
    Not lost on me - but the majority of illegals are hard-working people who don't cause trouble, and are a major part of what keeps the country running. Exporting all the money they earn to their home countries instead of spending it here is an issue, but it is their money after all.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Exporting all the money they earn to their home countries instead of spending it here is an issue, but it is their money after all.
    Why is that a bad thing? What is it you think they do with the money when they get it?

    (you do realize it has to come back here, right?)
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    Why is that a bad thing? What is it you think they do with the money when they get it?

    (you do realize it has to come back here, right?)
    I'd rather that they spend it in the US at US businesses to stimulate the US economy.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I'd rather that they spend it in the US at US businesses to stimulate the US economy.
    i'm curious how you explain that it doesn't do that.

    yes, it may spend some time in another country changing hands, but it eventually has to come back here.

    the only way it can't come back here is that it gets destroyed - which is actually kind of good because it increases the buying power for the rest of us (less money in the supply means what we individually have is now a larger % of the money supply). but thats besides the point because they don't just destroy money...

    so eventually it comes back here. yes maybe the worker didn't spend it at the local grocery store, but no matter who he sent it to it eventually came back to the US. maybe in the form of paying for real estate, or some other sort of investment. maybe a plane ticket, or some item off ebay. some way some how it has to come back here. because at the end of the day our money is worth nothing to anyone else unless they can turn around and spend it here - thats where it gets its value from.
    Last edited by tshile; 07-27-12 at 02:03 PM.
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    George Mason

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    my point is that it's a giant cycle. there's no reason to be concerned with money 'going over seas', it's a giant misunderstanding of how the world works to be concerned about that.

    now, if you want to get upset that a person in town A is sending money over seas, and when it comes back the odds of it going to the (very) local economy of town A are slim to none, then ok. but most people aren't trying to drill down that far in the argument.

    furthermore, the same could be said about you every single time you travel outside of your town/county to buy/do something. so it's really a silly argument all the way around.
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    Well that's the point - the local businesses are missing out, and not getting stimulated.


    Thatswhatshesaid!
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Well that's the point - the local businesses are missing out, and not getting stimulated.


    Thatswhatshesaid!
    Right, instead a real estate agent is, or maybe a person that works a hotel or a restaurant, or a small business somewhere else is receiving an investment, or maybe it's an airliner that is getting the money, we can go on and on.

    Like I said, I can say the exact same thing about you any time you leave your county or state and spend your money at a mall or a movie theater in some other county or state - you're depriving your local economy! It's just silly to get that wrapped up in it. The money comes back into someone's hands that is a US citizen at some point. It has to. If it didn't have to then it would have no value to begin with. So no, it may not be Marry at the local grocery store that gets it for a hard days work, it may be Jane the small business owner in a completely different state. Either way, the money winds up in a a citizens hands. It doesn't just magically disappear, never to be seen again by US citizens.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Uh...is this a serious quote? The number of illegals in the US is not relevant to illegal aliens in the workforce? Um...okay...
    You're twisting like Chubby Checker. The piece in question was not talking about illegals in the country. It also was not talking about illegals in the workforce. What the piece in question was referring to, was the comparison between enforcement of immigration laws in the workplace now, as opposed to how it had been.

    Since the laws were enforced before Obama (I'm aware not 100% complied), and they aren't enforced at all now, the situation would obviously then be moving in the wrong direction, would it not?

    If you don't see the vast difference in that and what you said, there's no need to discuss it any farther, because the discussion will move nowhere.

    I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt believing you may have misread the piece or not read it in its entirety, but I don't know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    the majority of illegals are hard-working people who don't cause trouble
    Lanky, you know better. You can't claim this as true or false any more definitively than I could claim the exact opposite. There is no way to prove either side of this argument.

    As far as the illegals benefiting the country, that's laughable. They don't spend their earnings here, they don't make their homes here, yet they still receive all the benefits an American citizen does, on the taxpayer's dime.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    Right, instead a real estate agent is, or maybe a person that works a hotel or a restaurant, or a small business somewhere else is receiving an investment, or maybe it's an airliner that is getting the money, we can go on and on.

    Like I said, I can say the exact same thing about you any time you leave your county or state and spend your money at a mall or a movie theater in some other county or state - you're depriving your local economy! It's just silly to get that wrapped up in it. The money comes back into someone's hands that is a US citizen at some point. It has to. If it didn't have to then it would have no value to begin with. So no, it may not be Marry at the local grocery store that gets it for a hard days work, it may be Jane the small business owner in a completely different state. Either way, the money winds up in a a citizens hands. It doesn't just magically disappear, never to be seen again by US citizens.
    in one sense you're right...the money is loaned back to us by the Chinese to assist us in bringing ourselves one step closer to the deficit/debt cliff's edge.

    value...btw is not inherent in a currency...you're making a mistake here. value is in the goods and services that are exchanged. currency is simply a medium for exchange - think of it as a common language that enables communication. in an honest market....currency can be seen as a store value....but it lost a lot of that capacity back when Nixon detached the value from a bedrock standard (gold)...enabling governments (especially ours recently!) to open up the printing presses.
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    "the majority of illegals are hard-working people who don't cause trouble"

    I'll pass the word to the rape/murder victims of the minority of illegals. and to the taxpayers funding all the healthcare and fraudulent income transfers.

    but I appreciate the real thought behind your pov: it's ok to break the law! it's ok not to enforce the law. fundamental lesson: if you believe something is fair, right, just...whatever....it's ok to break the law! all bets are off boys and girls! if you believe a law is wrong....ignore it! you'll be a better person for the experience.
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