A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1
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    Default Canadians Households Are Worth an Average of $43,232 More Than U.S. Ones

    Not sure what to make of this, but I found it interesting and slightly distressing.

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/natio...us-ones/54652/

    Our neighbors to the north have reason to gloat: Canadians are on average wealthier than Americans. In a column for Bloomberg View, Stephen Marche points out that Environics Analytics WealthScapes data shows how in 2011 the net worth of the average Canadian household was $363,202 compared to the average American household at $319,970. That gives the average Canadian $43,232 more than the average American. As Michael Adams, who reported the figures last month in The Globe and Mail notes: "these are not 60-cent dollars, but Canadian dollars more or less at par with the U.S. greenback." Adams writes that real estate in Canada is worth on average over $140,000 more than that in America, and "Canadians hold more than twice as much real estate as Americans and, once mortgages are factored in, have almost four times as much remaining equity in their real estate." That said, he adds that America's "liquid (non-real estate) assets are still greater than Canadians’." And that's not all: Marche notes that while Canada's unemployment rate has fallen to 7.2 percent, America's was stuck at 8.2 percent.
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    George Mason

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    I'm always curious at the comparisons between the two countries. One thing that I think screws it all up:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population

    Yes, it's wikipedia, but the numbers are consistent with other sources I see.

    We have 10 times the number of people than Canada. That 10 times equates to about a 300 million person difference.

    I just don't think it's fair to compare the two countries in any sort of way - what measurements can you come up with that aren't impacted by the drastically different population sizes? Averaging doesn't work - the impact on us by the difference in population is not something that's really measurable, and averages certainly aren't going to take that into account.

    http://www.npr.org/2012/04/22/151166...g-the-new-poor

    I mean, christ, we have 40+ million on food stamps. The number of people using food stamps in our country is well above their total population; the strain that puts on the rest of our society just can't me measured in such a simple way. I'm not even convinced it can be accurately measured at all to discuss comparisons.
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    wellllll....personal wealth/net worth is the difference between assets and liabilities. I haven't researched the specifics of the Canadian Housing market....but the article doesn't have much depth to it...a major factor in the economic down turn was the huge growth in private debt. no doubt mortgages played a role and the precipitous fall in real estate values exacerbated the accounting, but private debt covers a lot of territory including credit cards, bank loans, etc. the stats are likely to vary highly by age group as well.

    btw....private debt rates have started to rise gain following a post 2007 scare in which we consumers worked to burn down a lot of debt. optimism? or an armageddon, gonna party like it's 1999 mindset? I know people in both camps.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Bunch of looneys up there, apparently.
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    Virginia

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    I have no doubt that this is true. In fact, I'm certain of it.

    Al has the right idea of how this happened. Commencing with providing loans in the mortgage/subprime mortgage market to unqualified buyers in 1993, the toll has been astronomical - as we have seen. A vast number of loans now outweigh the current value of homes on a grand scale. The toll on any municipality is too much to bear and we will see more bankruptcies (a la San Bernadino, Stockton, and Scranton [?]). This debt is unsustainable. The cards are just beginning to fall.
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    Minnesota

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    Damn anadians!
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance View Post
    Damn anadians!
    lol... I tried to fix it too.

    The fix wouldn't take.

    I guess now that they are ahead of us they no longer are deserving of a "C"
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  8. #8

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    I always find it funny that every country tries to compare themselves with America and then brag on it even if the stats are skewed. It shows that no matter what people may say we are still the benchmark and greatest.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    That's a pretty bold claim...

    We're 34th in infant mortality rates. Some of the countries ahead of us include: portugal, south korea, brunei, macau, cyprus, and cuba

    We're 7th in literacy, 18th in math, 13th in science
    Those rankings are only relative to other 'industrial' nations - to make us look good. There are countries that scored better than us that aren't considered 'industrial' nations. Isn't that awesome? Non-1st world countries have better scores than us, we don't really talk about that though because it makes us feel bad.
    http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...497574526.html


    I can then get into life expectancy, the gap between the best off and the worst off, the average media income, average wealth, etc. But some of those are (somewhat) subjective, and as already discussed hard to compare countries that are so different - but if we were to talk about them we'd hold some of the worst rankings there too. Feel free to look it up.

    We are really good at some things though. That list includes:
    - Number of adults incarcerated
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/23/wo...pagewanted=all

    - Number of combined gold metals, and number of total summer gold medals (we are 3rd in winter)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-tim...es_medal_table

    - Spending on military
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures






    So when someone suggests we're the 'greatest' or 'best' country in the world I must assume that they consider incarcerated adults, military spending, and Olympic gold medals as the only things that really matter in the world. Is that how you feel?


    Also, a better way of putting it can be found here:
    (warning, there is some bad language in this)
    [video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h__uutzcQXc[/video]

    (edit: apparently i said more better, lol)
    Last edited by tshile; 07-17-12 at 11:18 AM.
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    Warts and all, we are still the best country.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration
    A 2012 survey by Gallup found roughly 640 million adults would like to migrate to another country permanently if they had the chance.[7] Nearly one-quarter (23%) of these respondents, which translates to more than 150 million adults worldwide, named the United States as their desired future residence, while an additional 7% of respondents, representing an estimated 45 million, chose the United Kingdom. The other top desired destination countries (those where an estimated 25 million or more adults would like to go) were Canada, France, Saudi Arabia, Australia, Germany and Spain.
    But we definitely could be much better.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Warts and all, we are still the best country.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration


    But we definitely could be much better.
    So your claim then is that the number of people who immigrate to your country is the measuring stick that determines who is the greatest?

    Thats fine if you feel that way... just want to be clear on what your claim is before i try discussing it.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Every country that's not third world tries to emulate the US. Hence why most have McDonald's. Simple claim but it's the truth.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    Uh - McDonald's is in those countries to make money, I don't think it has anything to do with emulating the US.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    So your claim then is that the number of people who immigrate to your country is the measuring stick that determines who is the greatest?

    Thats fine if you feel that way... just want to be clear on what your claim is before i try discussing it.
    I would probably agree with Ax - people will generally flow to the best situation they can get to. So the number of immigrants is probably the best overall measure of a country's desirability, at least.
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    George Mason

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    No, it's not the truth. In any way.

    McDonalds is there to make money - not to emulate the US. If your claim was true they'd sell the same stuff in other countries that they sell here; but they don't. They cater their menu to the population they are trying to serve.
    Also if your claim was true, they'd be begging McDonalds to move there - they don't. McDonalds moves to other countries to increase profit and to create a global presence. Not because other countries want to emulate the US - that's a ridiculous claim....

    Based on how many countries have signifincantly different forms of governments, understanding of basic rights and public services, and other things, i don't know how you can make the claim that they emulate us.

    What country emulates us? Most other countries are considered 'socialist' by our standards...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    So your claim then is that the number of people who immigrate to your country is the measuring stick that determines who is the greatest?

    Thats fine if you feel that way... just want to be clear on what your claim is before i try discussing it.
    No t, I'm just saying that, all the negative statistics about our country you want to champion, will never change the fact that we are indeed the best thing on this planet, IMO.

    Warts and all.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    I would probably agree with Ax - people will generally flow to the best situation they can get to. So the number of immigrants is probably the best overall measure of a country's desirability, at least.
    I'm getting ready to go to lunch so I have to make this comment quick with no sources. I plan to return...

    I would want to see what countries people come from when they migrate. I'm curious how much we're the 'most desired' place vs % of migrants that come from central/south america. Because for those people - we're the closest place.

    Getting here is hard enough. Try getting a visa/citizenship in European countries with no money for a plane ticket and no boat.

    Furthermore, we have way more lax immigration policies compared to many European countries. I'm curious how much that has to do with it.

    Also I'd want to look at what % of migrants to the US are coming solely for the University education system, only to leave once they have completed their degree. Our public education system sucks, but our University system (the top elite end of it) is second to none (in my opinion).
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    No t, I'm just saying that, all the negative statistics about our country you want to champion, will never change the fact that we are indeed the best thing on this planet, IMO.

    Warts and all.
    So your claim is that you have an opinion, and that any facts i bring up are not important...

    ok, good chat!
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    I think the U.S. Culture still has a lot of appeal. One of the reasons for that is that we are still tops in the entertainment industry. Hollywood sells us better than our government or corporations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    So your claim is that you have an opinion, and that any facts i bring up are not important...

    ok, good chat!
    This, from a guy who accuses others of fabricating statements.

    Tell me, where is it that you live?
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    Quote Originally Posted by burgold View Post
    I think the U.S. Culture still has a lot of appeal. One of the reasons for that is that we are still tops in the entertainment industry. Hollywood sells us better than our government or corporations.
    Yeah. Freedoms and opportunities mean nothing.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    This, from a guy who accuses others of fabricating statements.

    Tell me, where is it that you live?
    I presented facts, and made a claim.

    You presented a fact, and made a claim.

    I asked you if that fact was what you based your claim on, you said no.

    You've yet to show me any facts to support your claim. I'm asking for them. I'm sorry if that came across as fabricating statements, that is certainly not what i intended and I do hate when people do that to me; so please call me out when you see it

    I live in Virginia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Yeah. Freedoms and opportunities mean nothing.
    We are not the only country in the world with freedom or opportunities. That's an ignorant implication at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    people want those corporations in their countries because they want to emulate our lifestyles and everything about us. McDonalds doesnt "invade" those countries.

    Japan emulates us. look at the youth and how much they try to act like their urban rappers. Look at all the fast food joints, Nike shoes, concerts, TV shows, etc.

    let me ask you this; where have you been outside of the US?
    I've been to Belize. It's a third world country. Is that what you want to base the conversation on? What countries we've all visited/lived in?

    I think you're ideas of why McDonalds exists in other countries is a bit presumptuous... it's only because the rest of the world wants to emulate us? you're right, it has nothing to do with corporations wanting to create a global image and increase profits.
    Last edited by tshile; 07-17-12 at 01:26 PM.
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