A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1

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    Default any of you agree with Noonan?

    are we doomed to mediocrity and likely failure no matter the outcome this Nov? that what we suffer from is a deficit of great leaders?

    http://online.wsj.com/article/declar...nav_na_opinion
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  2. #2

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    George Mason

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    Yes. We do suffer from a deficit of great leaders.

    I am not entirely sure that there's a been a 'great leader' in my life time, unfortunately. To be fair, until the September 11th attacks sent us spiraling out of control with wars, billions upon trillions in spending, and more and more federal legislation that infringes upon our rights, I don't think we needed a great leader.

    But clearly, right now we do. We needed one 12 years ago. Unfortunately the options were Al Gore and George W Bush - and no one can convince me that Al Gore would have handled things better.

    I do disagree with the author in some regards. One being that we need a political genius; we don't need a political genius so much. What we need is someone who can unite people behind some common ideas. A guy who can put a road map down and guide us along it. If we had a president who could rally support on both sides of the isle, Congress would fall in line; Congress's latest ****upery is a symptom of a divided country with no leader, not the cause of it.

    I think Obama has proven himself to be polarizing. So no, I don't think he's the answer to that problem. Romney isn't either, in my opinion.

    Which is why I am so frustrated with the way we're behaving as a society right now. In my opinion everyone should have made it very clear they would not vote for either Obama nor Romney; yet we haven't. Instead everyone's settled for 'not as bad as the other guy' just like the author said.

    The other thing I disagree with is the author's implication that there's still time. That somehow between now and November one of the candidates (namely Romney, since I don't think there's a lot of room for change in Obama [which I find ironically depressing]) is going to prove himself worth of being that leader.

    I just don't see it happening. I see them placating to the extremes of both parties, the 'base' if you will.

    What america needs is a government that functions in our collective best interest, what we have is a government that functions in its best interest; mainly by consolidating power to the federal level.

    It is most unfortunate, in my opinion.
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  3. #3

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    agree with 90% of your post.

    the part I disagree with ... :-) ... is the notion that this polarization hasn't been intentionally engineered. it has.....what with nearly 50% no longer incurring tax obligations, entitlement dependencies all over the map, fraud in securing our borders in order to promote voting booth agendas...etc...etc.....versus the other 50% taking advantage of every loophole, creating technical schemes that no one understands to bilk money, politicians raking in income hand over foot while playing the 1% rhetoric game themselves......

    the whole dynamic has been intentionally engineered to create fixed, intractable interests. they aren't placating the base - they created it!
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  4. #4

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    George Mason

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    i can agree with that. i'm pretty sure it was engineered as well.

    i think the divide and conquer mentality works. our government has divided us so they can continue to conquer us.
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    James Madison

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    I find the last part of the article most interesting, about Rice. I think she would be an incredibly strong choice, but I also don't think any VP candidate is going to swing anything. I do think we are stuck between two disappointing candidates, not sure there is a winner present at all. Obama's supporters are disappointed, and he will not be able to galvanize them as much as in 08; Romney is so... bland, I'm not sure he can connect with most voters. Wouldn't surprise me to see record low turnouts.
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    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

  6. #6

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    I find the last part of the article most interesting, about Rice. I think she would be an incredibly strong choice, but I also don't think any VP candidate is going to swing anything. I do think we are stuck between two disappointing candidates, not sure there is a winner present at all. Obama's supporters are disappointed, and he will not be able to galvanize them as much as in 08; Romney is so... bland, I'm not sure he can connect with most voters. Wouldn't surprise me to see record low turnouts.
    I have a lot of respect for Rice, but I must admit I'm not exactly well informed on her. What I have seen I do like though. I can't imagine she would use this election to be a VP candidate though. Just doesn't make sense for her.
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  7. #7
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    Baylor

    Smile Who were the great Presidential leaders in history?

    Reagan (personally lost more money under his reign than anyone else, but boy he could really send a positive message)

    Clinton did well (lost all respect for him due to his zipper problem)

    Johnson not inspiring but passed more lasting legislation than any other President in recent history (Civil Rights laws, etc.)

    Kennedy was truly a great leader and politician. True tragedy that he was killed before he could serve another term.

    Eisenhower was truly a great military leader and not given enough credit for what he did as President.

    All the rest in my personal lifetime don't even come close to being leaders in my opinion.
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  8. #8

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    Condi Rice would be a better President than Romney. As VP, she could handle foreign affairs, allowing Romney to focus solely on the economy.

    Opinion: Martin O'Malley is about the only person I can think of right now that wouldn't be better than Obama.

    Rice's problem will be Bush. The left side of the media machine, led by the DNC, successfully convinced a large portion of the population that the caricature they created of W was accurate. As a leader, he tried to take the higher road, and not waste time responding to the daily barrage of anal attacks by his enemies, hoping that the notion of fairness would take over. It was a good thought, but it failed miserably. Politics today requires bringing a gun to a knife fight.

    Unfortunately, the party's are so dug in, nothing will change much anytime soon. Finding a "leader" who would get the seal of approval from both sides, upon entering the WH, will be next to impossible.

    We need a dictator who would abdicate power after setting a proper course.

    I volunteer.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I volunteer.
    I'm down with that!

    but you'll find that, on average, the labor force leaves something to be desired.
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  10. #10

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    Florida Atlantic

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    Obama has lost much of the luster he had in 2008. Romney has always been a "blah" choice. This is 2004 all over again - the incumbent has set himself up for failure, and should be easily removed from office. The challenging party brings in an uninspiring, very questionable nominee to challenge. Will the results be the same? I'm not sure.

    As to the author's point, we have good leaders, they just don't get nominated, or don't run altogether.
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  11. #11

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    George Mason

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    I don't blame them. Politics has become a trashy institution driven by the extremes.

    If you're someone with the reputation of Powell, Rice, Christie, or Clark why would you put that at stake? Why would you put your family through that?
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    I find the last part of the article most interesting, about Rice. I think she would be an incredibly strong choice, but I also don't think any VP candidate is going to swing anything. I do think we are stuck between two disappointing candidates, not sure there is a winner present at all. Obama's supporters are disappointed, and he will not be able to galvanize them as much as in 08; Romney is so... bland, I'm not sure he can connect with most voters. Wouldn't surprise me to see record low turnouts.
    I would be very impressed if Romney picked Rice. I've always liked her. (as an aside, I think her treatment by the left when she was Secretary of State was one of the purest examples of vicious, racist, sexist hypocrisy that conservatives complain about daily. In her case I think they had a legitimate gripe.) I might consider voting for Romney if he picked her, but knowing Romney I doubt he would.

    Regarding the article, well, I usually agree with Noonan. She's a great writer and a great conservative pundit. And in this particular case she's absolutely correct. We need a Leader. We needed that in '08 which is why I voted for Obama. McCain was the safe choice but Obama had the potential to be a transcendent leader. Unfortunately, he hasn't lived up to that. Another mediocre politician in a long string of them. And Romney, he inspires no confidence whatsoever. I actually don't dislike him, but I just can't see him actually being president. There's no ... gravitas. Or something.
    Last edited by Henry; 07-17-12 at 12:21 PM.
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  13. #13
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    Baylor

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    I really don't want charisma or gravitas, I won't someone who can roll up his sleeves and get us moving again in a positive direction. That will take someone like Lyndon Johnson. Mitt definitely does not fit that bill. Too nice. Can Bill Clinton run again? Is it constitutionally possible?
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  14. #14

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by RG3 Fan View Post
    I really don't want charisma or gravitas, I won't someone who can roll up his sleeves and get us moving again in a positive direction. That will take someone like Lyndon Johnson. Mitt definitely does not fit that bill. Too nice. Can Bill Clinton run again? Is it constitutionally possible?
    Yes. The overall limit is 3 terms, 2 consecutively if if i remember my gov ap class correctly....

    edit: he was impeached... Not sure how that plays intro it....

    Edit 2: according to wikipedia I have no idea what I'm taking about...
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by RG3 Fan View Post
    I really don't want charisma or gravitas, I won't someone who can roll up his sleeves and get us moving again in a positive direction. That will take someone like Lyndon Johnson. Mitt definitely does not fit that bill. Too nice. Can Bill Clinton run again? Is it constitutionally possible?
    At this point we need both. We need someone who not only knows what he's doing, but it able to sell it to a deeply divided country. Like you I don't see Romney as that person. Sadly, Obama isn't that person either.

    So yes, I agree with Noonan.
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