A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

Thanks Thanks:  0
Likes Likes:  0
Disagree Disagree:  0
Post of the Year Post of the Year:  0
Page 1 of 10 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 191
  1. #1

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default President Obama and guns, why should I be worried?

    Now, there may not be anyone here who thinks President Obama is trying to take our guns away; if there isn't then so be it.

    But if there is, I'd like you to show me where this is true.

    I'm an avid gun rights supporter and gun enthusiast. I think we have the right to own firearms both for utility (hunting, entertainment, sport) and for protection (from criminals, and from a corrupt government if god forbid that day comes).

    (side note: i also think owning a gun is a lot of responsibility; both in it's operation and maintenance and in knowing the laws and when you can/cannot use it)

    So gun rights are important to me. The idea that someone would move us towards a european/japan like society where guns are not legal to own by a common person (that is, only in special circumstances, if at all) really, really bothers me.

    If you can show me that President Obama has an actual agenda that he plans on acting on (or has been acting on) to grossly restrict gun rights then I'll have a huge problem with him.

    But I just flat out cannot find the evidence to support it.

    In fact, I have evidence that refutes it...

    The Brady Campaign gave Obama a report card on his first year; he received F's in every category (meaning he's going the opposite way of more gun control. if he was meeting the brady campaigns expectations on gun control he'd get A's). Now I despise the Brady campaigns goal - I believe the "Assault Weapons Ban" is correctly named the "Scary Looking Weapons Ban". They are as on the opposite side of the spectrum as I am; so if they were giving A's that would really, really be a cause for concern for me.

    But here's what they say:
    Although President Obama understands that common sense gun laws are desperately needed to prevent America’s gun violence crisis, he so far has squandered his opportunity to push for those laws. He has not only failed to voice support for – much less sign – any new gun laws to close dangerous loopholes, but has actually signed repeals of more federal gun policies than President George W. Bush did in both of his terms.

    And just as disappointing, President Obama has failed to show leadership on the gun issue. Administration officials who support common sense gun laws appear to have been muzzled for speaking out in favor of laws supported by Barack Obama as a candidate and Senator. Their constructive solutions to America’s gun violence epidemic were quickly replaced with parroted NRA slogans
    You can read more of the report here:
    http://www.bradycenter.org/xshare/re...ear-report.pdf

    You can also read more in general from the gun control side at the site:
    http://bradycampaign.org/facts/studies

    Here's a list of pro-gun legislation thats happened since Obama took office:
    — In 2009, Obama enacted legislation permitting firearms in national parks.

    — In 2009, Arizona and Tennessee passed laws letting people carry guns in bars.

    — In 2010, the Supreme Court ruled 5-4 to extend federal gun-rights protections to states.

    — In 2010, Louisiana approved a bill letting people carry firearms in houses of worship.

    — In 2010, Arizona passed a law letting people carry concealed weapons without a permit. In 2011, Wyoming enacted the same law.

    — In 2011, the U.S. House of Representatives passed, with considerable bipartisan support, a bill that makes a firearm-carry permit in one state valid in every other state.

    — In 2011, Mississippi enacted legislation allowing people to carry firearms on college campuses, and in bars and churches. Later that year, the measure was expanded to include sporting events, polling places, airports, courthouses and other government localities.

    — In 2011, North Dakota and Texas passed legislation to ensure that employees may bring a gun to work, as long as it’s locked in a vehicle.

    — In 2011, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and New Hampshire put into effect versions of Florida’s “stand your ground” law, granting people broad latitude to use lethal force when they perceive a threat to their safety.
    source: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2...andy-guide.php

    Obviously President Obama didn't have a hand in every single one of those things; my point is more that pro-gun people have been getting their way since the 2008 election both at the state and the federal level.

    So... where am I going wrong here? Where am I supposed to be looking for this evidence that he is anti-gun?

    Please don't post a bunch of speeches and quotes from Obama when he was a democratic senator from Chicago. Please show me votes, or other actions, that show that he has a real interest in using the next 4 years to restrict our access and/or use of guns. Because everyone showed me quotes/speeches for the 2008 election and they could not have been any more incorrect given how things have gone since then.

    edit: fixed the first sentence of the last paragraph to more accurately describe what i am and am not looking for.
    Last edited by tshile; 07-16-12 at 12:01 PM.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  2. #2

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    ahemm...speaking of bait and switch.

    aside from Fast & Furious...take a look at the UN sponsored gun control control treaty the Obama admin is apparently going to support.

    there are also the anecdotal exchanges one hears on the radio/TV that one has to personally decide are true or ont. I heard one in the past week from an individual (can't recall the name) who was a visiting lecturer for a year at the U of Chicago when Obama was there. The person stated he had this very conversation with Obama and it was clear Obama was unalterably opposed to the second amendment.

    I reject your challenge precisely because the modus operandi is to say one thing while doing the opposite.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  3. #3

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    Good, we shouldn't need to worry about you participating in the thread then. It's a relief, actually.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  4. #4

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Not sure where to find what you're looking for, but I'll state my views. I don't own any guns, but have considered buying one, and appreciate that I'm able to. That being said, I have no problem with more stringent gun laws, to keep them out of the hands of the crazies. However, the black market is still a much bigger problem than rogue gun shops ever will be in terms of criminals, so that's where the focus should be, imo.

    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    Good, we shouldn't need to worry about you participating in the thread then. It's a relief, actually.
    Lmao! He's going for the threads trolled in one day record, methinks.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  5. #5

    2016 BGO FF Champion
    Ugly American

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Location
    My location
    Posts
    6,927
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    34 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    Please show me votes,
    Senator Obama: Present


    The UN ban fansince mentioned will be worth watching. Obama's team is negotiating it, so, we'll see something there.

    Of the list you showed, I see 1 thing he was involved with. Not a very good barometer, IMO.

    The rest, so far, is guilt by association.

    At best, he's a moderate Democrat. Though I'd say he's very liberal.

    There are few, if any, liberal Democrats that don't want to ultimately do away with guns. Moderate Dem's are only pro gun, when being otherwise, would cost them their job.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  6. #6

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    ok! you can put your thumb back in your mouth!

    but you're right! Obama and his base have not been trying to change gun control laws, Fast & Furious didn't happen, he isn't party to this UN treaty, he hasn't manifested a pattern of saying one thing and then unilaterally executing the opposite, he hasn't routinely distorted the facts or made claims that were 180 degrees the opposite of he has done, there has been no effort to drive up the rpice of ammo or gain control over semi-automatics (or redefining them - btw...look at what this UN treaty defines as guns) .....you just want reliable quotes! awesome! go for it.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  7. #7

    Join Date
    02-01-10
    Location
    Waynesboro, VA
    Posts
    9,169
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    4 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    65
    James Madison

    Default

    Ask any liberal Democrat and they will tell you Obama has failed miserably on this issue as far as they are concerned. And they aren't buying for a second the story that the NRA is selling, that he was biding his time in this first term in order get conservative's guards down and then snooker them in his second term.

    They're actually pretty angry about it. For the Republicans to claim Obama is doing anything wrong in this arena is posturing, IMO.
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    OLine. DLine. Secondary.

  8. #8

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Senator Obama: Present


    The UN ban fansince mentioned will be worth watching. Obama's team is negotiating it, so, we'll see something there.

    Of the list you showed, I see 1 thing he was involved with. Not a very good barometer, IMO.

    The rest, so far, is guilt by association.

    At best, he's a moderate Democrat. Though I'd say he's very liberal.

    There are few, if any, liberal Democrats that don't want to ultimately do away with guns. Moderate Dem's are only pro gun, when being otherwise, would cost them their job.
    The list I mentioned was more to show that as a nation, since he has taken office, pro-gun people are better off than they were prior to him being in office. Which goes counter to the entire argument (which was presented in 2008, and is being presented again now) that those of us who advocate gun rights should be afraid of a presidency occupied by Barack Obama...

    The Brady report card is the part that I find really damning as it specifically relates to him. Thats about as pro-gun-control as you can get without literally trying to take away everyone's guns, and they gave him the worst grade they have.

    I'm not trying to argue his general political persuasion... I just don't see where anything he's done for the nation since taking office has done anything to indicate he wants to take away our guns; in fact, he's done the opposite...
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  9. #9

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    And, let me add, if Obama's grand plan was to spend the first 4 years throwing the republican argument that he's going to take our guns away in their faces, only to get reelected and then take away all of our guns...

    then i'll admit I was wrong and he fooled me.

    I just think that's a joke of a stance and not based on anything in reality... it's partisan hackery in it's finest (which is just my opinion...)
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  10. #10

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    However, the black market is still a much bigger problem than rogue gun shops ever will be in terms of criminals, so that's where the focus should be, imo.
    It's refreshing to see someone that typically leans left have this view.

    It always strikes me as amazing how many pro-gun-control people think that if we just made strict laws about what guns we can all have the criminals will decide to follow those laws when trying to get equipment to break other laws...
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  11. #11

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Whoops, I meant: give me all your guns! Rabble rabble rabble! (Can't disappoint fansince!)
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  12. #12

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Ask any liberal Democrat and they will tell you Obama has failed miserably on this issue as far as they are concerned. And they aren't buying for a second the story that the NRA is selling, that he was biding his time in this first term in order get conservative's guards down and then snooker them in his second term.

    They're actually pretty angry about it. For the Republicans to claim Obama is doing anything wrong in this arena is posturing, IMO.

    ok. I get it.

    none of you want to address Fast & Furious, the UN Gun Treaty, efforts such as the failed Democrat sponsored initiative in Ill a couple years ago to essentially raise the price of gun ownership and ammo as a different path to gun control, core Democratic Party pronouncements over the years vis gun control, what Obama states publicly and what he does behind the scenes - this President is notorious for twisting everything (remember...there are no taxes in Obamacare!!!!)

    yea. yea. yea. this is all part of the larger effort to distract from the core issue of mismanagement of the economy. on cue to the HBO show the other day on gun control.

    the template gets tiring guys:

    - I want an honest discussion

    - I don't know all the facts..it's not my area of specialty...but here's a link that lays it all out!!!

    - Please demonstrate to me how the non-authoritative source doesn't reflect ground truth

    - I'm not convinced by the counter-arguments (though I won't check them out any more than you check out my sources) you have produced....ergo..the non-authoritative and incomplete source must be right!

    - I hate Limbaugh and all those other right wing buffoons...but Ezra, Politico, Stewart...well we established in another thread that they're really Conservatives in disguise! I can trust them! no way I'm reasoning in circles!!!!

    - how can you possibly debate my iron-clad logic?!!!! you don't add anything to the thread.

    that's the playbook!
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  13. #13

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    fansince62 i was hoping you'd keep your trolling out of the thread. seems you cannot help yourself.

    it's not that noone wants to discuss those things, it's that noone wants to discuss them with you. you haven't proven yourself to be worth discussing things with because you're not fair in any way you address people you disagree with, you make up their opinions for them, and you've appointed yourself the judge of when facts are relevant, when they aren't, when they're fake, and when they're not. Last, but not least, when things start to come up that take away from your 'side' of things you switch the conversation to something else.

    you seem to think your tricks are not observed by the rest of us... they most certainly are. you're not a sly as you think you are.

    why would anyone want to try to have a real discussion with someone like that?
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  14. #14

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    sorry t...you must have missed the point I was making.

    the template you and others employ is obvious. the patterns are there. you no more master the facts...do real research...than what you accuse me and others of. I look at the "analyis"...and frnakly...end up amused more than anything else.

    as for my status in the BGO Universe....I can't account for what you and the girls discuss behind the scenes. I frankly don't care. I do have enough PMs from others that I am confident that yet another Universal assertion by you and the tupperware club is not based in fact.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  15. #15

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    sorry t...you must have missed the point I was making.

    the template you and others employ is obvious. the patterns are there. you no more master the facts...do real research...than what you accuse me and others of. I look at the "analyis"...and frnakly...end up amused more than anything else.

    as for my status in the BGO Universe....I can't account for what you and the girls discuss behind the scenes. I frankly don't care. I do have enough PMs from others that I am confident that yet another Universal assertion by you and the tupperware club is not based in fact.
    I accuse others of nothing. I accuse you of trolling and everything else i listed above. Let's be very clear on that.

    Discuss behind the scenes? I don't discuss anything behind the scenes with anyone here? Not sure where that comes from. I think i've had 2 PM's since i joined the site that weren't from an admin.

    I'm open to the conversation, but I refuse to be baited into it the way you do. If you can't learn how to have a reasonable conversation with people then thats pretty much the way I plan on addressing your points.

    edit: i was also rather presumptive in saying that no one wants to discuss it with you. someone may want to, i can only speak for myself.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  16. #16

    Join Date
    09-20-11
    Posts
    8,920
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    George Mason

    Default

    So, back on subject, the one thing that has been mentioned is the UN treaty that is currently being discussed.

    From what I've gathered, the 'goal' of the treaty is to regulate the international import, export, and trade of weapons.

    It would create a registry for those transactions so that they can be monitored.

    Now, I've seen a bunch of pro-gun sites talk about how this would/could turn into a registry for the US, but I don't see anything that's non-partisan that suggests that. I'm not claiming that the treaty wouldn't force them; I'm saying everyone i've read that says it does force a registration for US citizens and domestic use is speculating, I've yet to see proof that the language does force it.

    There is some ambiguous language such as not permitting the transfer if it could "adversely affect regional security" or "seriously impair poverty reduction or socioeconomic development." Thats quite subjective and on it's face I'd kind of be worried about it

    But at the end of the day we have a 2nd amendment that SCOTUS takes very, very seriously with many precedents. a UN treaty would not over rule that.

    I definitely think it's something to pay attention to, but I don't see it as being very threatening; yet. We'll see what the actual language of the treaty is.


    oh, and ax
    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    Senator Obama: Present
    that was not lost on me
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  17. #17

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    The whole quoting PMs thing is a bit childish, guys. If you've got something to say, say it. Otherwise, keep it in your republican PM circle jerk, please.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  18. #18

    Join Date
    07-22-09
    Posts
    7,589
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    The whole quoting PMs thing is a bit childish, guys. If you've got something to say, say it. Otherwise, keep it in your republican PM circle jerk, please.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device

    couldn't agree more...though you have more or less fallen victim to the same vice in the past.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  19. #19

    Join Date
    07-15-09
    Location
    Houston, TX
    Posts
    13,516
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    couldn't agree more...though you have more or less fallen victim to the same vice in the past.
    Fair enough, and it was childish of me to do so. I won't do it any more.
    0 0 0 0
     
     

  20. #20
    BGObsessed
    Join Date
    04-01-11
    Location
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Posts
    4,738
    Post Responses
    Thanks, Likes, & More
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Blog Entries
    3
    Army

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Fair enough, and it was childish of me to do so. I won't do it any more.
    Progress!

    I'm willing to propose a trade, hear me out..... Could you please refrain from going apocalyptic on me whenever I reference you being on the left, when you completely ignore when other people say it? If you can do that, I will accept your citations in debates, regardless of how absurd the source is in my opinion (unless it's a blog)
    0 0 0 0
     
     
    It's ok, I don't like you either.

 

 

Similar Threads

  1. President Obama's In Town
    By Nobody in forum The Political Asylum
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 07-15-12, 10:22 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 04-15-11, 07:57 AM
  3. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 11-15-10, 04:51 PM
  4. Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-14-10, 01:10 PM

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •