A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1

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    Florida Atlantic

    Default Holder: New Voter ID Laws are Poll Taxes

    Holder equates forcing people to travel long distances or spend money on IDs that they need for ID purposes to poll taxes. I personally am not sure where the line should be drawn between maintaining the sanctity of the voting booth and infringing on people's right to vote.

    Also, while it shouldn't be a big deal to get a state-issued ID card, I don't have the perspective that others may have. And from this chart, its clear that the new law would effect poor people and minorities the most:



    Thoughts?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/0...oll-nbsp-taxes
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  2. #2
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    Army

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    I really haven't met anyone anywhere who agrees with him on this. To call it stupid is an understatement. Anyone with any sense knows exactly what's going on here. It's the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about.

    That being said, who here didn't have to show ID to register to vote? Since the answer is nobody, how can these people seriously claim they legitimately registered to vote, and showing ID for that was no problem, but now when it comes to voting.....oops, problem. It even says right on my voter card - must show picture ID. OH NOES POLLTAX!!!!!!!11111

    And I will say something, since I have lived in a situation most of my life that makes me privy to certain info most of you honkys don't have ........there's a reason a lot of black don't have IDs. If you're curious, go to a poor neighborhood, and they will tell you exactly why, and it has nothing to do with money. Most of you are smart enough to put together the reason.

    .....not saying there aren't people who are legitimately too poor to afford ID, but those people can't be legally registered without ID anyway.
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  3. #3
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    Baylor

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    Smells like Duvall County in Texas in 1948 all over again. You can be any dead person and vote if you do not have voter ID. The comparison to this as a poll tax is totally absurd.
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  4. #4

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    Default

    Holder is the punchline to a bad joke.

    As for making sure minorities have a valid ID, if the NAACP wanted to really be a useful organization, they could remedy the problem faster than the government. They could use the money they sucker out of people, to use on the mostly BS news-maker issues they inject themselves into, and actually do something with it. But, they'd rather use a story like this to sucker even more money out of more of the people they're supposed to be fighting for.

    They're a joke, too.
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  5. #5
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    Minnesota

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    What exactly is the problem that voter-ID laws are trying to solve?

    Voter fraud?

    Everything I've read suggest that the biggest problem in "fraudulent" voting comes at the registration stage, not at the polls.

    I don't have a problem with requiring photo ID or a birth certificate for registration, I do, however, have a problem with requiring them for currently registered voters at the polling place.

    Also, ID laws don't just disproportionately affect minorities, poor people and students, but also women, who are more likely than men to change their names.

    Edit: Many of you might love to hear that the last place I voted was in Minnesota, where there are very large immigrant and student populations. In MN if you are a student, you can register to vote on election day with your student ID card, so long as your university has provided a student housing list to election officials. And can you imagine what happens? People in Minnesota actually vote. Their voter turnout is consistently higher than the national average.
    Last edited by renaissance; 07-11-12 at 09:33 AM.
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  6. #6

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    Default

    I don't see how requiring someone to have their ID with them to vote, is any different than having to carry your drivers license when you drive.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance View Post
    What exactly is the problem that voter-ID laws are trying to solve?

    Voter fraud?
    It's trying to prevent illegals from voting, and doing it multiple times, and keep certain groups from having people vote dozens of times. Voter fraud is a Democrat way of life - vote early, vote often. This law would prevent that, so Democrats don't want it.

    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance View Post
    I don't have a problem with requiring photo ID or a birth certificate for registration, I do, however, have a problem with requiring them for currently registered voters at the polling place.
    So you would have no problem with someone going to dozens of polling places and voting multiple times, just for saying they are who they say they are, buy not verifying it?

    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance View Post
    Also, ID laws don't just disproportionately affect minorities, poor people and students, but also women, who are more likely than men to change their names.
    Try not to get caught up in that spin on it, they don't care about women or minorities being denied rights, that's just the game they play because they're going to miss those million extra votes their fraud usually nets them.
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  8. #8
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ax View Post
    I don't see how requiring someone to have their ID with them to vote, is any different than having to carry your drivers license when you drive.
    Especially since it's made clear when you register that you have to show ID, just as you do to register.
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  9. #9

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    George Mason

    Default

    You should have a photo ID anyways, as a responsible adult.

    I have no problem with the laws. I think they should do more to validate a person's eligibility to vote.

    Hell, I think there should be a very basic test about where the candidates stand on some basic, yet important, issues. But I know most people disagree with me on that.
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  10. #10
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    Minnesota

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    It's trying to prevent illegals from voting, and doing it multiple times, and keep certain groups from having people vote dozens of times. Voter fraud is a Democrat way of life - vote early, vote often. This law would prevent that, so Democrats don't want it.
    It's not trying to prevent illegals from voting, it's trying to prevent people without ID from voting.

    And I have yet to see that there is some systemic problem of voter fraud at the polls which would warrant requiring ID to vote.

    So you would have no problem with someone going to dozens of polling places and voting multiple times, just for saying they are who they say they are, buy not verifying it?
    Yes I would have a problem with it. Just like I have a problem with people breaking any other law.

    Try not to get caught up in that spin on it, they don't care about women or minorities being denied rights, that's just the game they play because they're going to miss those million extra votes their fraud usually nets them.
    Not sure who "they" are, but I care about minorities, poor people, women, and young people being denied rights at a disproportionately higher rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    You should have a photo ID anyways, as a responsible adult.

    I have no problem with the laws. I think they should do more to validate a person's eligibility to vote.

    Hell, I think there should be a very basic test about where the candidates stand on some basic, yet important, issues. But I know most people disagree with me on that.
    Right, and plenty of people have photo ID, the problem is many people do not have a current, accurate state-issued ID. My driver's license, for example, currently displays my old address. When I change my polling place (I just moved), my driver's license won't match my registration. God forbid I get married and change my name but don't get an updated ID in time to vote.
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  11. #11

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    Florida Atlantic

    Default

    Again, its all perspective. The right sees this huge voter fraud issue on the left, but we see a huge denying rights problem on the right. The voter disenfranchisement in the 2000 election was astonishing.

    EDIT: we as in, the not right. Not we as in "the left." Just to clarify.
    Last edited by Lanky Livingston; 07-11-12 at 12:01 PM.
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  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Again, its all perspective. The right sees this huge voter fraud issue on the left, but we see a huge denying rights problem on the right. The voter disenfranchisement in the 2000 election was astonishing.
    I would venture to say, that there were few, if any, who knew what the hell they were doing, that were "disenfranchised".
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  13. #13

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by renaissance View Post
    Right, and plenty of people have photo ID, the problem is many people do not have a current, accurate state-issued ID. My driver's license, for example, currently displays my old address. When I change my polling place (I just moved), my driver's license won't match my registration. God forbid I get married and change my name but don't get an updated ID in time to vote.
    Uh.. it's the law where I live that you change your address within 30 days of moving.

    You should also do it out of a sheer desire to not be ignorant and to be responsible. That is how the state contacts you for things like jury duty, summons, etc. By not updating your address you risk getting in trouble for stupid things simply because the state cannot contact you.

    Your problem is that you haven't updated your address, which you should have done. That doesn't make the policy bad, it makes you irresponsible.

    Sorry, you get no sympathy from me if you can't do something as simple as keep your license up to date (which is required by state law where I live; I cannot imagine it's not required by state law where you live). In fact, I would almost be willing to say that if you can't do something simple like update the address on your drivers license maybe you shouldn't be voting. I'm almost willing to say that. It's pretty borderline for me.


    Edit: I'm not trying to be an ass, but this is where I get very very fed up with the 'left'. They want to accuse anyone who supports this idea of being racist or wanting to disenfranchise voters who typically vote for certain parties. When the truth is we find it absolutely unacceptable that you cannot find the time, or the desire, to carry an accurate, state-issued photo ID. The fact that it is then turned into a race thing just makes it an absurd argument and fans the flames because now we're being accused of being racist.
    Last edited by tshile; 07-11-12 at 12:21 PM.
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  14. #14

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Lol@irresponsible. My what a high horse you sit on.
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    So it's not irresponsible to not update your address with the state when you move (assuming you hold a state-issued ID that requires you to do so)?

    Is that the argument you're making?

    Or are you trying to suggest that I pretend I'm never irresponsible?
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  15. #15

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Im suggesting that you lobbing insults and acting high and mighty at someone who is merely offering a perspective is laughable.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    If you think being told that your action is irresponsible is an insult, then maybe you should reconsider your action?

    I'm sure he has reasons, but to blame the policy for being bad because he hasn't done the responsible thing is laughable.

    Your pathetic attempt to attack me with no basis is also laughable.

    What he did was irresponsible. I pointed it out. You, somehow, got your panties in a bunch over it. Maybe you should actually avoid the subforum? Little things seem to upset you. Last time you had to take a childish, passive aggressive approach of posting in the sticky thread trying to be witty and crafty about it.

    edit: or you can put me on ignore. that would probably work best for you.
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  16. #16

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    George Mason

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    I don't need to know her to call not updating your address on your state-issued id after moving irresponsible.

    Notice, I'm calling her action of not updating it irresponsible; i have no idea how responsible she is/isn't in general.

    I cannot believe you are so offended by such a simple remark. You, sir, are the joke at this point. Everything was fine until you tried to poke me with a stick just because you get easily upset at internet forums.
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  17. #17

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    George Mason

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    BTW I have no idea of maryland requires you to update your address. I know VA does. If MD doesn't then I'm 100% wrong and you don't have to update your address. It's a pretty big assumption on my part
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  18. #18

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Easily upset? I laughed at your insults and just like expected you turned it on me. You offer the same ol rhetoric with everyone too. Its pathetic.
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    You can't even disagree that it is irresponsible to not update your address on your license.

    You're just upset I called it irresponsible.

    Get a grip dude. You obviously have a problem with me and it's turned into you looking for any reason to try to insult me.
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  19. #19
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    Minnesota

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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    Uh.. it's the law where I live that you change your address within 30 days of moving.

    You should also do it out of a sheer desire to not be ignorant and to be responsible. That is how the state contacts you for things like jury duty, summons, etc. By not updating your address you risk getting in trouble for stupid things simply because the state cannot contact you.

    Your problem is that you haven't updated your address, which you should have done. That doesn't make the policy bad, it makes you irresponsible.

    Sorry, you get no sympathy from me if you can't do something as simple as keep your license up to date (which is required by state law where I live; I cannot imagine it's not required by state law where you live). In fact, I would almost be willing to say that if you can't do something simple like update the address on your drivers license maybe you shouldn't be voting. I'm almost willing to say that. It's pretty borderline for me.


    Edit: I'm not trying to be an ass, but this is where I get very very fed up with the 'left'. They want to accuse anyone who supports this idea of being racist or wanting to disenfranchise voters who typically vote for certain parties. When the truth is we find it absolutely unacceptable that you cannot find the time, or the desire, to carry an accurate, state-issued photo ID. The fact that it is then turned into a race thing just makes it an absurd argument and fans the flames because now we're being accused of being racist.
    You are right. I am irresponsible because I haven't changed my address and I do not deserve one bit of your sympathy.

    That was the entire point of my previous post.
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  20. #20

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    George Mason

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    whatever you say mike. i'll just drop it until you have something meaningful to actually contribute. i'm sick of going around in circles with you. when you grow up let me know. until then i apologize in advance for the hurt feelings my posts give you.


    you've driven this thread exactly into the thing you bitch about. congrats.
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