A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1

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    Florida Atlantic

    Default Obamacare SCOTUS Decision Expected TODAY

    Conflicting reports right now, some outlets are saying the Mandate has been struck down, others are saying it survives as a tax. Very complicated.
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  2. #2

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    Florida Atlantic

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    The entire HCA has been upheld. CNN initially reported incorrectly that it was struck down.
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  3. #3

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    George Mason

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    i find it funny that fox news hasn't changed their site yet. i guess they weren't ready to part with the 'nobama' banner they have taking up 3/4 of the front page just yet.

    i can't decide how i feel about this... i agree with the mandate because i feel like it will get rid of the uninsured just dropping their medical bills on us... but i'm not sure (just my opinion) it's constitutional
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  4. #4

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    So, our taxes are going up. Shocking!

    And they will continue to.
    As will healthcare costs.

    Last chance to kill the beast is this fall. If it lives, Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid have a new baby entitlement brother, that will outgrow them both in being financially crippling, ineffective programs that do more to help politicians get elected, than their professed intention of actually helping the people.

    This is only my opinion.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Yay! I get to pay for every illegal without insurance! Just what I need with all this extra money I have laying around from this amazing economy and low gas prices!
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    I'm pretty sure we were already doing that.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by Henry View Post
    I'm pretty sure we were already doing that.
    Yep, to the tune of about $60B a year, or somewhere in that ball park.
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  7. #7

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    George Mason

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    i thought mexico was billed for those?
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  8. #8

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    George Mason

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    how would you propose stopping it, out of curiosity?
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    Even if we bill them, they'll pay us back with some of the $760 million dollars we give them annually.

    It's why we can afford to pay higher taxes. All tax paying Americans have dollar bills falling out of our asses. Greedy bastards, we are, for actually wanting to keep our own money for ourselves.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  10. #10

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    George Mason

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    I agree with you that we shouldn't be giving all this money to other countries. I'd also love to stop funding Israel's douchebaggery.

    I'm not sure what it has to do with the health insurance bill though.
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  11. #11

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    They're both a waste of money. On paper, their stated goals read well. In reality, they're just government programs that serve greater political purposes than anything else.

    We can't afford to keep them up.

    No problem for politicians though. They just raise, or create, more taxes.

    Must be nice.
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    "Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and **** the prom queen"

  12. #12

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    Florida Atlantic

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Serious enforcement on the borders, turning away illegals who use the hospitals as ER rooms, stricter punishment for being caught as an illegal.
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    A lot of that $60B is from American poor who abuse ER rooms due to their lack of health insurance.
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  13. #13

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    LMAO!!!

    - SCOTUS basically said two things:

    . this is a political matter we're not getting into the specifics of healthcare
    . the President of the United States and the Dem Patry partisan vote that moved this into law basically lied: they said this was not a tax increase.

    - gonna get interesting

    . I've basically been on the sidelines when it comes to politcal parties and my wallet - my whole life. I just stroked a large check to the Tea Party. first contribution I have ever made.

    . there are many strategies that can come into play to defeat this assault on liberty.....its impact on the economy will sound the death knell. folks have no idea whay is abt to hit over the next few years.
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  14. #14

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeSr619 View Post
    Serious enforcement on the borders, turning away illegals who use the hospitals as ER rooms, stricter punishment for being caught as an illegal.
    Posted via BGO Mobile Device
    while I personally agree with you, they'll never pass laws allowing (much less forcing) hospitals to turn people away. they just wont.

    i agree on the other parts, but i'm wondering how much money is actually saved once you're done paying for increased border enforcement and shipping illegals back. both are very expensive.

    so, i don't think any of them are actually answers when you try to actually use them in reality; as much as we want them to be. nice ideas on paper though.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    LMAO!!!

    - SCOTUS basically said two things:

    . this is a political matter we're not getting into the specifics of healthcare
    . the President of the United States and the Dem Patry partisan vote that moved this into law basically lied: they said this was not a tax increase.

    - gonna get interesting
    ...
    Not really... they didn't say they weren't getting in the specifics, they said it's not unconstitutional and it's not their job to protect us from the people we willingly vote into office. If we don't want something like this then we shouldn't vote them into office. And you can cite whatever polls you want about people not wanting it, when election time came these are the people who were voted into office.

    It's not a tax increase. It's a penalty in the form of a tax if you don't comply. There's a bit of a difference there.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    The Irony of the Individual Mandate

    There are many ironies in the furor around the individual mandate. The fact that it was originally a Republican idea tends to get the most attention. But here’s another: There is no better deal in the legislation — and there has perhaps never been a better deal in the individual health-care market — than to go without insurance and pay the mandate’s penalty.

    Here’s what happens now if you decide to wait until you’re sick to buy health insurance: Every health insurance company will tell you no, or they’ll charge you an exorbitant rate, or they’ll offer you insurance that will cover everything except your illness. Insurers, quite rightly, do not want to cover preexisting conditions, and there’s little consumers can do to make them change their minds.

    Under the Affordable Care Act, here’s what happens if you wait until you’re sick to buy health insurance: You can buy health insurance and no insurer can charge you more for walking into their office with a lump the size of a golf ball. The catch is that between now and getting sick, if you can afford insurance — which the law defines as you have access to insurance that costs less than eight percent of your income — you have to pay a penalty of $695 a year (that’s the 2016 number; after 2016, it rises with inflation) or 2.5 percent of your annual income, whichever is greater.

    The fact of the matter is that $695 a year or 2.5 percent of your annual income is likely to be a lot less than a decent insurance policy will cost you. In a way, paying the mandate is like buying an option to purchase insurance at some future date, when you need it more, for a price that you could never have gotten before the mandate.

    But let’s say you try to eke out an even better deal than that: Let’s say you don’t buy insurance and you simply refuse to pay the mandate. What can the government do to make you pay?

    Well, unlike if you refuse to pay your taxes, it can’t throw you in jail or put a lien on your home or other property (page 336 of the legislation). It can potentially reduce your tax refund, but that’s really it. If you’re not getting a tax refund, you’re free and clear.

    Given these specifics, it’s worth asking why anyone thinks the mandate will work at all. And it’s worth saying that some don’t. “Even as it exists today, the individual mandate is weak and still presents problems because the penalty is so low,” Aetna Chief Executive Mark Bertolini told Reuters. “Obamacare individual mandate unlikely to work” wrote Marrill Matthews of the Institute for Policy Innovation, an organization that opposes the Affordable Care Act.

    Most analysts are more optimistic, and for two reasons. First, Americans want health insurance, they want access to care before they get sick, and with the subsidies in place, they’re getting help to buy it. Second, Americans tend to follow the rules. In Massachusetts, where the mandate is similarly weak, compliance has been extraordinarily high.
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  17. #17

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    yes...really.

    that's your dissembling spin. it's on tape: NOT A TAX INCREASE. SCOTUS did not reject precisely on justification that it is a tax.......THEY (the people who voted for this) LIED. but we knew that from the beginning.
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    70% of Americans oppose Obamacare.

    Some prefer to avoid the obvious - aside from the direct assault on freedom - it has to be paid for. it's income redistribution on a MASSIVE SCALE....based on ideology that is fundamentally opposed to individualism, accountability/personal responsibility and mastery over one's own fate. moreover, in the end, it will be impossible to realize the ideological ideal that lies behind it. aside from cost...technology changes too fast.

    I just wish the supporters would be honest insetad of lying about it...year...after year...after year...after year.

    ps...it also undercuts the logic behind reproductive rights. think about it.
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  19. #19

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    George Mason

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    no, thats not really how it went.

    what they said was that under the commerce clause this cannot be enforced; however, if it is a penalty enforced via a tax (or, another way of wording it, you receive a tax credit for having it) then it is constitutional because congress has the power to levy taxes

    therefore, they're suggesting it be treated as a tax. my understanding is that wasn't the original plan, however they'll go that route to prevent it from being over turned.

    I don't think anyone saw that coming.

    So to turn around and say we were lied to when the bill was presented is quite a stretch, to put it nicely.
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  20. #20

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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    70% of Americans oppose Obamacare.

    Some prefer to avoid the obvious - aside from the direct assault on freedom - it has to be paid for. it's income redistribution on a MASSIVE SCALE.

    I just wish the supporters would be honest insetad of lying about it...year...after year...after year...after year.
    and we'll see how true that 70% is in november.

    prepare to be disappointed. i'll be disappointed with you.
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