A Burgundy and Gold Obsession
'Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.' - Groucho Marx

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  1. #1
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    Default Obama Cooking The Books?

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...ing/55179748/1

    As the American public, we were told that the deficit for last year was $1.3 trillion. Come to find out, that's because the federal government lied to us. I know, I'm shocked too

    The real total? $5 trillion. Big surprise. Right in the midst of Obama and Biden and their supporters going on a tirade about how his spending is absolutely not out of control like Romney says, it turns out it's far worse than anyone knew.

    I'd say I'm surprised, but this is what I've come to expect from this administration.
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    Baylor

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    Wake up America!! News media please quit drinking the Kool-Aid. There are so many things Obama has done or failed to do that if it were a Republican President you would be all over it. I say this as an Independent and not a Republican. As an adult I have voted for the Democrat Presidential candidate more often than the Republican candidate. News media please start doing your job and act like the Independent that you are supposed to be.
    Last edited by RG3 Fan; 07-05-12 at 02:49 AM.
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    Some people here will tell you that regardless of your voting history, you're a Republican. Other people will tell you there is no Liberal media, and that it is, in fact, a Conservative media. I know this, only because I have been subjected to the same false accusations based on similar things I've said.

    The truth is, it isn't the middle or the right that is being fed a plate full of lies. The fact that the left refuses to open their eyes to the facts and numbers is irrelevant. No matter how painful the truth is, is someone doesn't want to know or believe it exists, they'll simply cover their eyes and ears, and walk away - completely ignoring the reality that's around them.

    An interesting thing with these statistics, is a lot of them were first made public by left leaning media outlets, but conveniently muted, like a one sentence write up on the 14th page of the newspaper.

    I have come to the realization recently, that while people beg for the facts, they simply don't want to listen to, or believe them, unless they support the views and "facts" that they've conjured up for themselves already. I don't know if it's a societal or human nature thing, but it binds too many people in this country to a belief system that is heavily flawed with their refusal to accept the truth as it is, if it isn't in the best interest of those they support.

    So all I can suggest is that we continue to fight the good fight, and spread the message to anyone who will listen, and just hope change will come in the form of a complete overhaul of the United States government, before those at fault destroy this beautiful country.
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    James Madison

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    No, you're completely right. Republicans never do that. Ever. Nor to the same extent.

    Anywho, getting back to the topic at hand... this supports something I have believed for a while, that Americans say they care about the debt the country incurs, but only so long as it cutting debt doesn't impact what affects them personally. Which is a shame.

    Now whether that is due to the media not doing their job, or just willfull ignorance/apathy is up for debate.

    As for the actual article, couple of interesting things:

    •Social Security had the biggest financial slide. The government would need $22.2 trillion today, set aside and earning interest, to cover benefits promised to current workers and retirees beyond what taxes will cover. That's $9.5 trillion more than was needed in 2004.
    This is the elephant in the room that both parties continue to ignore. It needs to be dealt with, and immediately. The retirement age needs to be raised, which will piss off all the Boomers and lose votes, which is why both parties are reticent to propose it. Again, I find it funny that poor people on welfare are all for cutting retirement benefits, and old people are all for cutting welfare.

    And people wonder why we never get anything done.
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    Florida State

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post

    This is the elephant in the room that both parties continue to ignore. It needs to be dealt with, and immediately. The retirement age needs to be raised, which will piss off all the Boomers and lose votes, which is why both parties are reticent to propose it. Again, I find it funny that poor people on welfare are all for cutting retirement benefits, and old people are all for cutting welfare.
    Someone call?

    Oh and those damn war mongers want them both cut but stay away from the Defense Budget!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    No, you're completely right. Republicans never do that. Ever. Nor to the same extent.
    Nobody here said nor implied they didn't. What you're saying is the typical game played by the left in the wake of information that is damning to their chosen man.

    The major difference on this issue as far as the left and the right are concerned, is that when someone on the right does it, it's 24 hour news on every outlet, and in every newspaper. You can't get away from it. But when it happens, the left is up in arms - torch in hand, pitchforks ready. When someone on the left has a major flaw, error, deceitful act, cruel intent, it's swept under the rug.

    Stories that are harmful to the left only see the light of day because the guys like Rush Limbaugh, Glen Beck, etc. are tipped off about it and spread the word. The problem then becomes that the left has demonized these figures for years and writes them off as loons. So to the left, these stories become nonsensical, when in fact they should be receiving the same coverage and digging for the truth that the right would receive in the exact same situation.

    A perfect example off the top of my head is Karl Rove. The left still hasn't gotten over him. He should have been prosecuted. But he wasn't, and it's not the end of the world. Many people on the left are surprised to learn that the right generally dislikes Karl Rove as well, but it is often assumed that because he is a Bush guy, he is beloved, when it simply isn't the case.

    When he ws in the news, the left used it to demonize Bush. They worked the guilt by association angle every chance they got, and acted like Karl Rove was the devil, so Bush must be too. Well guess what? Jeremiah Wright, Bill Ayers, Charlie Rangel, Timothy Geithner, Van Jones, etc. are all just as bad, if not worse, than Karl Rove. But what does the left say when these criminals, crooks, cheats, etc., seemingly the only type of people Obama is associated with , are brought into the light by the right? Well, anyone who follows politics can tell you, they're all saints.

    A few of us pay attention to everything on both sides, and are willing to call a spade a spade, regardless of political affiliation. Others just follow blindly and get up in arms when they feel jilted by their side being accused of anything, whether true or not. Defending a horrible thing or a horrible person by saying the other guy did it too? That's just a silly defense, and an argument the left uses all the time - while ironically accusing the right of constantly doing it.

    Just to be clear, I'm not accusing you of being a torch bearing, pitchfork carrying blind Liberal. You lean left, and that's fine. I just want to avoid the merry go round of reading the same retort from the left claiming not to be left while constantly defending them and bashing the right. I was just making a generalized point based on your sarcastic comment.

    As for me, I'd rather keep it simple, and just call BS when I see it.
    Last edited by Nobody; 07-05-12 at 03:58 PM.
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    Florida Atlantic

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    Yeah, stories that make Dems look bad never make it into the MSM. Never!

    I could find many, many more. And if you're suggesting none of these stories would have seen the light of day without the likes of Glenn Beck and his ilk, please. Save it, because its simply not true. The reason the Glenn Becks and the Rush Limbaughs of the world break a lot of these stories is because they're hunting Democrat errors down like bloodhounds.
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    James Madison

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    Karl Rove is an excellent example of something both sides do that I hate, as is W. When they are in office/power, the party line is toed, and the company man is protected and backed, often to extreme instances. But once they are out of office/power, then the party says, "well, we never really liked him that much anyway". If you back him so vociferously during power, you should stick with him when he is out as well, or at least be prepared to have that figure thrown up as an example in these discussions.

    And if you can't see that same thing coming with Pelosi and Reid, you're blind.

    As for the media, I mostly agree. My problem is when conservatives try to pretend that FOX is anything other than the mouthpiece of the Republican Party. I do think there are individual attempts at honest reporting, but they are few and far between, and one has to really want to find them to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanky Livingston View Post
    Yeah, stories that make Dems look bad never make it into the MSM. Never!

    I could find many, many more.
    One major story, pursued SOLELY by Republicans, one slightly big story (Pelosi), exposed by Peter Schweizer (a Conservative), and a bunch of irrelevant banter is supposed to prove what exactly? If that was an attempt at proving the media is equally harsh and critical of the left, then I thank you greatly for proving my point that they don't.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Karl Rove is an excellent example of something both sides do that I hate, as is W. When they are in office/power, the party line is toed, and the company man is protected and backed, often to extreme instances. But once they are out of office/power, then the party says, "well, we never really liked him that much anyway". If you back him so vociferously during power, you should stick with him when he is out as well, or at least be prepared to have that figure thrown up as an example in these discussions.
    To be honest, I never heard anyone on the left or right, while Bush was in power or after, ever say anything good about Karl Rove. Implying there was some sort of protective support net with him among Conservatives when Bush was in office, simply doesn't jive with the facts. He was a despised man almost from the start. The only Conservatives who ever liked him, only liked him because he drove the left crazy. Comparing that with people who constantly reelect Pelosi and Reid like they're doing work for the good of the country, well that's just not an accurate comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    As for the media, I mostly agree. My problem is when conservatives try to pretend that FOX is anything other than the mouthpiece of the Republican Party. I do think there are individual attempts at honest reporting, but they are few and far between, and one has to really want to find them to do so.
    On the flip side, how many Liberals admit CNN is a mouthpiece for the left? Every time I've ever seen it brought up, the Liberals go on a tirade about how it's the most balanced reporting, and it isn't. Fox is outnumbered by Liberal networks, and they catch all the crap like they're the only biased network. At least Fox makes the effort to mix it up by putting Liberal hosts on their channel. CNN would never load their network with Conservatives.

    And I've said before that the only people on Fox worth watching in my opinion are Shepard Smith and Megyn Kelly. And Megyn's a Liberal, a fact seemingly lost on the left.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    No, you're completely right. Republicans never do that. Ever. Nor to the same extent.

    Anywho, getting back to the topic at hand... this supports something I have believed for a while, that Americans say they care about the debt the country incurs, but only so long as it cutting debt doesn't impact what affects them personally. Which is a shame.

    Now whether that is due to the media not doing their job, or just willfull ignorance/apathy is up for debate.

    As for the actual article, couple of interesting things:



    This is the elephant in the room that both parties continue to ignore. It needs to be dealt with, and immediately. The retirement age needs to be raised, which will piss off all the Boomers and lose votes, which is why both parties are reticent to propose it. Again, I find it funny that poor people on welfare are all for cutting retirement benefits, and old people are all for cutting welfare.

    And people wonder why we never get anything done.
    maybe so.

    but a good starting point would certainly be an honest budget process and control over current spending (across the board including idiocies like Obamacare) - objectives neither party and most certainly this Keynesian President seem to hold.
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    James Madison

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    To be honest, I never heard anyone on the left or right, while Bush was in power or after, ever say anything good about Karl Rove. Implying there was some sort of protective support net with him among Conservatives when Bush was in office, simply doesn't jive with the facts. He was a despised man almost from the start. The only Conservatives who ever liked him, only liked him because he drove the left crazy. Comparing that with people who constantly reelect Pelosi and Reid like they're doing work for the good of the country, well that's just not an accurate comparison.

    On the flip side, how many Liberals admit CNN is a mouthpiece for the left? Every time I've ever seen it brought up, the Liberals go on a tirade about how it's the most balanced reporting, and it isn't. Fox is outnumbered by Liberal networks, and they catch all the crap like they're the only biased network. At least Fox makes the effort to mix it up by putting Liberal hosts on their channel. CNN would never load their network with Conservatives.

    And I've said before that the only people on Fox worth watching in my opinion are Shepard Smith and Megyn Kelly. And Megyn's a Liberal, a fact seemingly lost on the left.
    CNN most certainly isn't balanced. Happy?



    As for the Right defending Karl Rove, here ya go. Second result on google:

    http://rawstory.com/news/2005/RNC_re...tack_0714.html


    Quote Originally Posted by fansince62 View Post
    maybe so.

    but a good starting point would certainly be an honest budget process and control over current spending (across the board including idiocies like Obamacare) - objectives neither party and most certainly this Keynesian President seem to hold.
    Agree completely. Yet another example of why we need a viable third party, one that has not been bought and sold by special interests, who could undergo this honest budget process you speak of.
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    George Mason

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    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...=12_The_Rachel

    Here's through the first quarter. You have to scroll all the way to #12 to find a non-foxnews show. That's after a 17 percent decline in viewership this past quarter for foxnews

    I watch foxnews on a regular basis, mainly because the production quality is significantly better than any of the others. They make CNN look like a network run by 2 year olds.

    I'm pointing these out because people like Extreme love to complain about how the 'Main Stream Media' continually attacks his 'team'.

    I have news for you Extreme, Foxnews is the Main Stream Media. The network that exclusively represents your team pulls the best ratings, and the most people, across the board in pretty much every demographic and in every time slot.

    By how many viewers does your station need to outdo the competition before you'll drop this nonsense? 2x? 5x? 10x?

    Depending on which day you look at, and which slot, fox news regularly puts up the same (if not better) numbers than all the other stations combined: http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/category/cable-news/

    The right wing's claim of being under siege by the 'Liberal' media is laughable at best. It's right up there with the Christian religion being under attack.

    edit: and this is without even trying to get into the radio numbers. those are even more ridiculous.
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    George Mason

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Agree completely. Yet another example of why we need a viable third party, one that has not been bought and sold by special interests, who could undergo this honest budget process you speak of.
    at one point in time that was a pipe dream of mine as well.

    i finally realized it's not possible. it's not possible for someone to get that high up in a systemically corrupt institution without becoming corrupt.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    at one point in time that was a pipe dream of mine as well.

    i finally realized it's not possible. it's not possible for someone to get that high up in a systemically corrupt institution without becoming corrupt.
    Yeah, I know. A guy can dream though.

    For a while, I was really interested in Ron Paul and the Libertarians in general. Then I read some of Ayn Rands stuff as was a bit disturbed by that. Also, I like some of Paul's plan long term, but short term, not so much. His plan to practically immediately slash 8 (or whatever it was) departments from the govt is fine over the gradual course of 10 years, or maybe a little faster. But to do it so quickly would have been devastating to an already fragile economy, IMO.

    Anyway, I honestly don't know what the answer is, but I do know Repubs and Demos ain't it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Goaldeje View Post
    Yeah, I know. A guy can dream though.

    For a while, I was really interested in Ron Paul and the Libertarians in general. Then I read some of Ayn Rands stuff as was a bit disturbed by that. Also, I like some of Paul's plan long term, but short term, not so much. His plan to practically immediately slash 8 (or whatever it was) departments from the govt is fine over the gradual course of 10 years, or maybe a little faster. But to do it so quickly would have been devastating to an already fragile economy, IMO.

    Anyway, I honestly don't know what the answer is, but I do know Repubs and Demos ain't it.
    Yeah, Paul wasn't the best alternative. He's just, in many ways, a bit of sanity compared to the other two sides at the moment. Which is actually quite scary, because he's not exactly sane...

    This is why I firmly believe we need to go to a flat tax structure with no deductions. If we got rid of all the BS tax incentives that our government throws around to buy support from groups i think we'd see quite a reduction in the corruption and bs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    Yeah, Paul wasn't the best alternative. He's just, in many ways, a bit of sanity compared to the other two sides at the moment. Which is actually quite scary, because he's not exactly sane...

    This is why I firmly believe we need to go to a flat tax structure with no deductions. If we got rid of all the BS tax incentives that our government throws around to buy support from groups i think we'd see quite a reduction in the corruption and bs.

    agree.........flat tax. no subsidies.
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    Well, the only reason I had four kids was for the tax deductions, so that would have to stand. And I really like having the mortgage deduction, so let's leave that alone too. And I get an assload of business deductions, so let's not touch those.

    But aside from that, hell yeah! Flat tax, woo!

    (this message brought to you by the mindset of most Americans)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Extreme View Post
    One major story, pursued SOLELY by Republicans, one slightly big story (Pelosi), exposed by Peter Schweizer (a Conservative), and a bunch of irrelevant banter is supposed to prove what exactly? If that was an attempt at proving the media is equally harsh and critical of the left, then I thank you greatly for proving my point that they don't.
    Look at the media outlets reporting them, Ex. So who cares if Schweizer is a conservative; if the "MSM" as you say were so biased, it would never see the light of day. But it does.

    Responses like the one above are why I am so hesitant to even attempt rational discussion with you. I posted several articles from the extremist left commie pinko media, and you still deny that they ever say anything bad about Democrats. There simply is no reasoning with you.

    Quote Originally Posted by tshile View Post
    I have news for you Extreme, Foxnews is the Main Stream Media. The network that exclusively represents your team pulls the best ratings, and the most people, across the board in pretty much every demographic and in every time slot.
    Another excellent point - and something often overlooked by critics of "MSM."
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    and why would that be t? (vis Fox News)
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